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CYOF
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Perhaps you might follow up with a few examples?
How does one learn to think correctly? Define 'correctly' in terms of trading?
I presume you are NLP. I believe there may be a good demand for NLP trading mentors.
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For those who know, explanation is not necessary. For those who do not, none will suffice.
CYOF
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Post by CYOF
Quote:
Originally Posted by rols
Perhaps you might follow up with a few examples?
Will do as soon as I get a chance.
How does one learn to think correctly?
Not easy, I would say, but the first step may be in understanding that you may have to change your way of thinking/
Define 'correctly' in terms of trading?
For me, If I am able to make money, on average over a set period (or number of trades), depending on my trading style (as all styles will have different approaches and desired outcomes), then I am thinking correctly in terms of trading. If I can not make money - as above - then I will say that I am not thinking correctly.
I presume you are NLP. I believe there may be a good demand for NLP trading mentors.
No - I am just a normal person with a good deal of trading experience who has yet to achieve his goals - most of my experience has been acquired from dedicated hard work and sacrifices such as family and leisure time. My plan is to convert all of this hard work and dedication into positive results ASAP- Financial Independence -so that I may make up for all the times I was self centred and "hard to talk to".
Regards,
__________________
CYOF
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Post by CYOF
Quote:
Originally Posted by rols
Perhaps you might follow up with a few examples?
Will do as soon as I get a chance.
How does one learn to think correctly?
Not easy, I would say, but the first step may be in understanding that you may have to change your way of thinking/
Define 'correctly' in terms of trading?
For me, If I am able to make money, on average over a set period (or number of trades), depending on my trading style (as all styles will have different approaches and desired outcomes), then I am thinking correctly in terms of trading. If I can not make money - as above - then I will say that I am not thinking correctly.
I presume you are NLP. I believe there may be a good demand for NLP trading mentors.
No - I am just a normal person with a good deal of trading experience who has yet to achieve his goals - most of my experience has been acquired from dedicated hard work and sacrifices such as family and leisure time. My plan is to convert all of this hard work and dedication into positive results ASAP- Financial Independence -so that I may make up for all the times I was self centred and "hard to talk to".
Regards,
__________________
CYOF
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CYOF
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***********************************************************
Originally Posted by rols
Perhaps you might follow up with a few examples?
Will do as soon as I get a chance.
***********************************************************
Firstly, the initial reaction by most readers (as it was with me also) in relation to reading about how the human mind works, is to think that this is more mumbo jumbo nonsense. All I will say is - read between the lines.
My attitude changed when I done some research into the techniques used to train top golfing professionals - and we all know how much money the top golfers make!
Instead of me trying to explain in my words - which I think is not the best way as I am only a willing student, not a teacher, I will post extracts for discussion that I think may assist readers in their understanding of what I mean by "how to think correctly".
Again, question everything you read, and especially from crackpots like me :cheesy:
The first lesson is very simple - and this one is probably the only one that will come from me - is that you must be willing to at least consider that they way you think may not be the best way of doing it - especially from a scientific view point.
Is there a scientific method available that will enable a person to utilise their thought process to its fullest potential?
The answer is YES.
There is a defined systematic approach - A Process - that can be utilised in order to improve the way one thinks - thereby allowing one to logically confront and tackle any problem.
The outcome will be in direct proportion to the individuals understanding of 1) The Problem/s and 2) The Process.
It is not necessary, even not possible, to know the possible solutions to the problem/s at the start - but as the Process is applied the individual will find that the initial Problem/s will seem to disappear and be replaced with different problems - this is LIFE, whether we like it or not.
BUT -there is a more bigger problem in that the majority of people (nations) have been, unknown to themselves, conditioned (or brainwashed, if you want to use a stronger word) by the traditions and customs of previous generations.
This, has created a "tunnel vision" effect for the majority, whereby the majority fail to see the possibilities that are available by tapping into the full power of the human mind. Just look at history for all the examples where the majority have "less" and the chosen few have "more". Was this done intentionally, or was it the way things were "just meant to be" - I will leave you draw your own conclusions!
Extract No.1 for Discussion
Some men seem to attract success, power, wealth, attainment, with very little conscious effort; others conquer with great difficulty; still others fail altogether to reach their ambitions, desires and ideals. Why is this so: Why should some men realize their ambitions easily, others with difficulty, and still others not at all? The cause cannot be physical, else the most perfect men, physically, would be the most successful. The difference, therefore, must be mental - must be in the mind; hence mind must be the creative force, must constitute the sole difference between men. It is mind, therefore, which overcomes environment and every other obstacle in the path of men.
Charles Haanel - 1912
Originally Posted by rols
Perhaps you might follow up with a few examples?
Will do as soon as I get a chance.
***********************************************************
Firstly, the initial reaction by most readers (as it was with me also) in relation to reading about how the human mind works, is to think that this is more mumbo jumbo nonsense. All I will say is - read between the lines.
My attitude changed when I done some research into the techniques used to train top golfing professionals - and we all know how much money the top golfers make!
Instead of me trying to explain in my words - which I think is not the best way as I am only a willing student, not a teacher, I will post extracts for discussion that I think may assist readers in their understanding of what I mean by "how to think correctly".
Again, question everything you read, and especially from crackpots like me :cheesy:
The first lesson is very simple - and this one is probably the only one that will come from me - is that you must be willing to at least consider that they way you think may not be the best way of doing it - especially from a scientific view point.
Is there a scientific method available that will enable a person to utilise their thought process to its fullest potential?
The answer is YES.
There is a defined systematic approach - A Process - that can be utilised in order to improve the way one thinks - thereby allowing one to logically confront and tackle any problem.
The outcome will be in direct proportion to the individuals understanding of 1) The Problem/s and 2) The Process.
It is not necessary, even not possible, to know the possible solutions to the problem/s at the start - but as the Process is applied the individual will find that the initial Problem/s will seem to disappear and be replaced with different problems - this is LIFE, whether we like it or not.
BUT -there is a more bigger problem in that the majority of people (nations) have been, unknown to themselves, conditioned (or brainwashed, if you want to use a stronger word) by the traditions and customs of previous generations.
This, has created a "tunnel vision" effect for the majority, whereby the majority fail to see the possibilities that are available by tapping into the full power of the human mind. Just look at history for all the examples where the majority have "less" and the chosen few have "more". Was this done intentionally, or was it the way things were "just meant to be" - I will leave you draw your own conclusions!
Extract No.1 for Discussion
Some men seem to attract success, power, wealth, attainment, with very little conscious effort; others conquer with great difficulty; still others fail altogether to reach their ambitions, desires and ideals. Why is this so: Why should some men realize their ambitions easily, others with difficulty, and still others not at all? The cause cannot be physical, else the most perfect men, physically, would be the most successful. The difference, therefore, must be mental - must be in the mind; hence mind must be the creative force, must constitute the sole difference between men. It is mind, therefore, which overcomes environment and every other obstacle in the path of men.
Charles Haanel - 1912
rols
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Good Thread!
This is similar to Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich" and a lot a traders on ET credit it as having been their catalyst to success. This book is free online as an e-book and the audio version can also be purchased.
Self brainwashing/reprogramming is another approach and in a previous post I mentioned the subliminal software which places hidden affirmations on the trading screen.
http://www.infinn.com/subliminaldownload.html
I have also recorded several trading and psychology books at 1200 WPM subliminally mixed with theta brainwave sine noise.
Another experiment was to produce a simple midi app for playing back price movement with musical pitches.
I have also practised Tibetan meditation.
As a keen cyclist I recently rigged up my heart rate monitor to draw a line graph whilst trading. This was also a salutory excercise.
The best thing I ever did was remove all indicators from the screen but that's another topic.
I am not suggesting anybody has any use for the above but for me it was all part of the journey, and for this journey you draw your own maps. There will be many trying to sell you trading sat nav systems but IMO these will only serve to lead you astray.
As in all things, self mastery is the key.
CYOF said:
This is similar to Napoleon Hill's "Think and Grow Rich" and a lot a traders on ET credit it as having been their catalyst to success. This book is free online as an e-book and the audio version can also be purchased.
Self brainwashing/reprogramming is another approach and in a previous post I mentioned the subliminal software which places hidden affirmations on the trading screen.
http://www.infinn.com/subliminaldownload.html
I have also recorded several trading and psychology books at 1200 WPM subliminally mixed with theta brainwave sine noise.
Another experiment was to produce a simple midi app for playing back price movement with musical pitches.
I have also practised Tibetan meditation.
As a keen cyclist I recently rigged up my heart rate monitor to draw a line graph whilst trading. This was also a salutory excercise.
The best thing I ever did was remove all indicators from the screen but that's another topic.
I am not suggesting anybody has any use for the above but for me it was all part of the journey, and for this journey you draw your own maps. There will be many trying to sell you trading sat nav systems but IMO these will only serve to lead you astray.
As in all things, self mastery is the key.
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CYOF
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Nice to see that I am not the only crackpot on this site :cheesy:
I will cut straight to the chase - as I myself do not like trying to decipher information if I don't have to (but it is aways good to stimulate your mind).
If you read some Trading Psychology books - for me that was some books by Mark Douglas - your initial thoughts may be something like - hey, that sounds exactly like me, etc, etc.
If you then go an and pay the so called professionals to teach you how to learn how to trade -- as I did in the past - you will also see a lot of reference to self improvement techniques involving mind exercises.
You may then, as I have done, decide to do some further research into these mind exercises that are supposed to help you succeed at trading (or at anything in life for that matter).
If one is not careful, one can quickly get into the same bad habits as they did when trying out trading fro the first time - i.e, looking for that one simple thing that will allow one to become successful -that magical indicator, or magical self improvement book.
I believe that there is no such thing as one single thing that will allow one to succeed. The combination of "things" that are required will be different per individual - but where the mind techniques can be used is in helping to identify what these things are, and then make the required changes in order to achieve the desired end result.
For instance - IMHO, the most important aspect of self improvement is Visualisation Techniques. This is the one common aspect that is present in all of the teachings out there - from the "oriental masters" to Charles Haanel.
Having said that - how many people can apply and use these Visualisation Techniques effectively - not many I would say - I have tried with limited success - but also with limited goals in mind. It is not realistic to think that if you visualise yourself making winning trades that it will actually happen. A better approach may to visualise yourself asking questions to other traders as to how their trading works out - this is now practical as you can actually do it. Your visualisations must be based on practical goals.
So how can we learn to trade successfully?
One way may be to start posting screenshots of our trades so that we can discuss same with other traders. This will start us thinking about what we are doing as we get some criticism from others. When we are criticised it makes us question if we are doing the right thing, or hey, maybe that suggestion from another trader might actually work. A lot of traders have a vast amount of knowledge in their heads - even though they may not know how to use it. On the other hand - this knowledge when passed on to another trader, may be of great assistance in helping that trader achieve some good results.
The main theme that I picked up from the writings of Charles Haanel is that to attain great wealth you must be able to network - and I don't mean network as in the BS that you will see on the WEB. The mind exercises that he taught, enables one to change ones way of thinking so that one fully understands the basic "laws of abundance" - "Whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap."
For me, this means that you put some effort in to get your views across to others. As you continue this, you may sooner or later meet someone who will give you some piece of information that will be of value to you - you will know this when you see it - in other words the penny will drop. This new knowledge that you attain, will eventually help you in achieving your desired goals.
So, what I am now doing is trying to get traders to participate in this exchange of information. I will continue to put in the effort, even though no one else seem to be interested at the moment, but already I have "picked up one penny" in relation to my understanding of how to read the T&Sales correctly - following my questioning of a video posted by Mr Charts.
Does this make sense to traders or does it still sound like mumbo jumbo?
Edit: I will also continue to participate in other threads (including this one) - even though my main interest is to try and get traders to join in the CTM forum and post actual screenshots of their trades for discussion - as there is always a better way to do things - and this might just be found by participating in other threads. I always keep an open mind and also realise that there is always someone out there that knows a lot more than me.
I will cut straight to the chase - as I myself do not like trying to decipher information if I don't have to (but it is aways good to stimulate your mind).
If you read some Trading Psychology books - for me that was some books by Mark Douglas - your initial thoughts may be something like - hey, that sounds exactly like me, etc, etc.
If you then go an and pay the so called professionals to teach you how to learn how to trade -- as I did in the past - you will also see a lot of reference to self improvement techniques involving mind exercises.
You may then, as I have done, decide to do some further research into these mind exercises that are supposed to help you succeed at trading (or at anything in life for that matter).
If one is not careful, one can quickly get into the same bad habits as they did when trying out trading fro the first time - i.e, looking for that one simple thing that will allow one to become successful -that magical indicator, or magical self improvement book.
I believe that there is no such thing as one single thing that will allow one to succeed. The combination of "things" that are required will be different per individual - but where the mind techniques can be used is in helping to identify what these things are, and then make the required changes in order to achieve the desired end result.
For instance - IMHO, the most important aspect of self improvement is Visualisation Techniques. This is the one common aspect that is present in all of the teachings out there - from the "oriental masters" to Charles Haanel.
Having said that - how many people can apply and use these Visualisation Techniques effectively - not many I would say - I have tried with limited success - but also with limited goals in mind. It is not realistic to think that if you visualise yourself making winning trades that it will actually happen. A better approach may to visualise yourself asking questions to other traders as to how their trading works out - this is now practical as you can actually do it. Your visualisations must be based on practical goals.
So how can we learn to trade successfully?
One way may be to start posting screenshots of our trades so that we can discuss same with other traders. This will start us thinking about what we are doing as we get some criticism from others. When we are criticised it makes us question if we are doing the right thing, or hey, maybe that suggestion from another trader might actually work. A lot of traders have a vast amount of knowledge in their heads - even though they may not know how to use it. On the other hand - this knowledge when passed on to another trader, may be of great assistance in helping that trader achieve some good results.
The main theme that I picked up from the writings of Charles Haanel is that to attain great wealth you must be able to network - and I don't mean network as in the BS that you will see on the WEB. The mind exercises that he taught, enables one to change ones way of thinking so that one fully understands the basic "laws of abundance" - "Whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also reap."
For me, this means that you put some effort in to get your views across to others. As you continue this, you may sooner or later meet someone who will give you some piece of information that will be of value to you - you will know this when you see it - in other words the penny will drop. This new knowledge that you attain, will eventually help you in achieving your desired goals.
So, what I am now doing is trying to get traders to participate in this exchange of information. I will continue to put in the effort, even though no one else seem to be interested at the moment, but already I have "picked up one penny" in relation to my understanding of how to read the T&Sales correctly - following my questioning of a video posted by Mr Charts.
Does this make sense to traders or does it still sound like mumbo jumbo?
Edit: I will also continue to participate in other threads (including this one) - even though my main interest is to try and get traders to join in the CTM forum and post actual screenshots of their trades for discussion - as there is always a better way to do things - and this might just be found by participating in other threads. I always keep an open mind and also realise that there is always someone out there that knows a lot more than me.
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CYOF.....it does make sense, and your attitude is excellent. One of the problems is the internet has unleashed so much information and opinion, it can be difficult telling one from the other. T2W itself has some very good advice and information, but also much opinionated nonsense
trendie
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CYOF said:
A really good idea CYOF, as it addresses the main component of trading - the "(wo)man-in-the-loop".
Aside from the buying/selling aspects, the number of emotional issues are incredibly vast; ranging from "why did I leave so many pips on the table", "could I have got in at a better price",
etc, which in a way undermines rules that may be defined.
Incidentally, what was your question, and what was Mr Charts answer with regards to reading T&S correctly ?
I am looking forward to the charts bit; as I have yet to see anyone add commentary to a clean chart, its usually in reference to an indicator or two. (with the exception of mr.marcus)
CYOF said:
Make it three- I'm reading and hope to gain something new from it--even at my age and I ain't no spring chicken!
Don't expect any contributions at this stage, though, if ever! I just mention that I am reading to to give you encouragement.
Split
...just stumbled across the thread. I'm a big 'fan' of Haanel and for those interested in his Master Key work, here it is. Hope you enjoy it and can apply the principles to your circumstances/needs, trading or otherwise.
Quite a slick modern day presentation of Haanel's key themes (from the US) can be found here: http://whatisthesecret.tv/ I'm not affiliated in any way btw.
Good trading.
Quite a slick modern day presentation of Haanel's key themes (from the US) can be found here: http://whatisthesecret.tv/ I'm not affiliated in any way btw.
Good trading.
CYOF
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Pippppin said:
Agree 100%.
It may only be possible to tell the difference between BS and RI (Relevant Information) following some trading experiences. If you don't actually place trades you will never gain enough experience to question what opinions others put forward.
One can read and study all they like - but the real experience comes from placing live trades in the market.
This is why I am asking traders to post details of their screen shots - and they don't always have to be live trades - demo trades will do fine providing you take them seriously, which I do.
After a while one should then be able to quickly spot the difference between BS and RI.
CYOF
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Splitlink said:Make it three- I'm reading and hope to gain something new from it--even at my age and I ain't no spring chicken!
Don't expect any contributions at this stage, though, if ever! I just mention that I am reading to to give you encouragement.
Split
Hi Splitlink,
Why not - you may just as well know as much (and even more) as the rest of us - only you don't realise it.
I am asking you to join in and start posting trades - demo will do fine.
Be the first and lead by example - age before beauty :cheesy:
Just let me know and I will set up your individual thread so that you may start posting in the CTM forum.
I will be posting a demo trade for the YM today using a 5 min chart - I will give as much detail as I can for discussion.
Must run for lunch -as I want to be back for the market open.
Regards,
CYOF
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rols said:
Not correct - if you read all the posts here you will see that I mentioned my main interest is posting screenshots in the CTM forum, not here - and I hope other traders will join in.
I also stated that I will also contribute to other threads - including this one.
Anyway, it is the end result that matters in trading, not what topics we traders discuss.
The best way to achieve the end results - is to practice first and then trade with real money when you prove that you can do it. Everything else should take a back seat.
No hard feelings - as you are very right to express your opinion.
How about posting some screenshots of your trades?
Regards,
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