Psychological and Emotional burnout.

I really don't know how to start this post, and seem to write it, then delete it, but the honest, and frank responses I get from people on this forum I've decided to just write it.

The bottom line is, that I need your help guys.

I just feel so drained, scared, and emotionally broken at the moment, yet there hasn't been any specific trading factor that has brought me to this point. There hasn't been a significant loss or any traumatic instances in my private life either.

After being taught how to trade properly by a trader who has worked for the bank of England also, and I've took time out from live trading, and back tested his strategy to the back of beyond on a 5 min chart, and even live paper trading has produced the same results, Infact I'm now at the point where trading makes perfect sense, and I can see trades just pop out of the charts, but I just cant take live trades.

As unbelievable as this may sound, just to give an eg. of last weeks trades on FTSE alone at 1% risk was:

Mon 4%,
Tues 7%
Wed 5%
Thurs5%
Fri 5%

And this does not include the opening spikes at 8am, or Non farm trading, and very conservatively instead of counting the paper traded 1:3 ratio's etc I have counted them as 1:1.
Yet I didnt make a dime, as I was crippled with fear every time I go to trade.

I even thought about paying someone to get this strategy automated, and was told very honestly by members of this forum that it is a very hard process to get right(putting it mildly).

This is my full time job working from home, yet I procrastinate so I don't have to get out of bed to face the charts, yet when I do get up I feel sick to my stomach when I turn the computer on. Then although I have the charts running in the background I just browse the internet instead till about 4pm, then at 4.30pm back test how many % was on the table that day, feel very angry at myself, and tell myself that tomorrow will be different and I will trade, yet the same process repeats itself.

I've taken time away from the charts by going on long holidays with the gf. Taken months off at a time away from charts.

I even asked a friend to pop over and trade with me to just type in the trades I shout on my account for a %age return of the profits, but the said friend was more interested in wanting to know my strategy, and for me to teach him, that the whole days would be taken up by me explaining everything to him, and trading would take a back seat. This was good for me, as I didn't have to trade, and good for him as he learnt what to do. Unfortunately when I had taught him all I know he just seemed too busy to pop over. I then asked another friend, and the same process took place, and now both my friends are working together, and doing very well, yet before they didn't know anything they were willing to promise anything, and doing everything to help me, and now they don't want to know, as they're busy working together, and don't have time to even call to see how I'm doing, yet they send a txt to let me know how well they're doing, and yes every time I receive the txts it makes me feel used, angry and bitter.

I have been brought up not to lie, yet when friends or family ask how things are going I just say things like "Yes I saw plenty today", or "there was plenty of opportunities today" which they assume means I've had a good day, and I wont put them right, but just smile. Yes its technically not lying, yet I feel like I am lying to myself everyday, and this just destroys me.

If there's any words of advise, pearls of wisdom that anyone can give me, or by those who have been through this and come out the other end can give me I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you

Best
John.

From the sound of things, it appears that one or all of the following may be the issue:
1. Confidence in long term performance of method.
2. Attaching too much importance to individual trade outcome.
3. Focusing on money rather than % performance and consistency of application.

Simple - drop down to absolute minimum stakes,
or the highest stake you are comfortable with - i.e.
a trade size you basically don't give a **** about.

Get used to opening / closing in profit and loss.
Get used to not caring about individual trade outcome.
Get used to not focusing on the money.
(obviously only on a per trade basis, and you have your risk level sorted).
Build your confidence in your method and results that way.
You must do it though, even if its absolute chump change size.

Knowing your average stats can help - strike rate, typical drawdown etc.
Open each trade and expect to lose your full risk amount.
Accept losses as a cost of doing business - every business has them.
Seasonality affects most businesses for example.
Overhead spikes apply in any business - stock purchase, returns, cancelled orders,
cancelled jobs / bookings etc.
No different in trading - that cost is drawdown and individual trade loss.

Keep doing that until you are comfortable upping size, if that point never comes,
then re-assess whether trading suits you.
Doing the above is never easy, and these issues never go away completely, you just have to control it.

All reactions of this nature are "created" by the mind and as such it makes sense to seek help in addressing the unconscious elements of your mind that are creating this issue. To do this requires bringing the mind into a semi-conscious state which allows the unconscious to be more open to change by using suggestions in the form of affirmations. Some people can go as far as using hypnotherapists but this is not needed in my view as it can be done using guided relaxation techniques along with your own affirmations.

Is this something that you have tried or would be willing to ?

I'm not normally cynical so I'll put my disquiet down to an errant sixth sense, but this just doesn't ring true.

Trader333 said:

All reactions of this nature are "created" by the mind and as such it makes sense to seek help in addressing the unconscious elements of your mind that are creating this issue. To do this requires bringing the mind into a semi-conscious state which allows the unconscious to be more open to change by using suggestions in the form of affirmations. Some people can go as far as using hypnotherapists but this is not needed in my view as it can be done using guided relaxation techniques along with your own affirmations.

Is this something that you have tried or would be willing to ?

Click to expand...

Actually it appears that having re-read the OP more carefully,
the OP has been used to the process in the past, so yeah something has changed.
Whatever it is, I would still start out again as if starting from scratch - minimum size.

Purple Brain said:

I'm not normally cynical so I'll put my disquiet down to an errant sixth sense, but this just doesn't ring true.

Click to expand...

What doesn't?
Fear of pulling the trigger or the claimed returns?
The former can be very real, the latter has no bearing on the question anyway,
who cares if that is legit or not, its irrelevant

Liquid validity said:

What doesn't?
Fear of pulling the trigger or the claimed returns?
The former can be very real, the latter has no bearing on the question anyway,
who cares if that is legit or not, its irrelevant

Click to expand...

My instincts are for a covert sales pitch to encourage interest in a system that Mr. Fox claims to have difficulty pulling the trigger on which nets 5-8% per day while in other posts he has claimed he is doing very comfortably on just 1% per day. I don't often get negative vibes, so when I do, I trust them.

Purple Brain said:

My instincts are for a covert sales pitch to encourage interest in a system that Mr. Fox claims to have difficulty pulling the trigger on with nets 5-8% per day while in other posts he has claimed he is doing very comfortably on just 1% per day. I don't often get negative vibes, so when I do, I trust them.

Click to expand...

Yeah I know where you are coming from, for now I'm just taking it at face value

Trader333 said:

All reactions of this nature are "created" by the mind and as such it makes sense to seek help in addressing the unconscious elements of your mind that are creating this issue. To do this requires bringing the mind into a semi-conscious state which allows the unconscious to be more open to change by using suggestions in the form of affirmations. Some people can go as far as using hypnotherapists but this is not needed in my view as it can be done using guided relaxation techniques along with your own affirmations.

Is this something that you have tried or would be willing to ?

Click to expand...

Although I was thinking about going to see a psychologist, the thought of seeing a hypnotherapist had not crossed my mind, but I certainly will do. I feel I have invested too much time, and money to fail at this, yet I feel the knowledge is there now, but just can't take the trade. I have put all my eggs in the trading basket, and don't want to walk away from it a failure.

Thanks for your advise. It is greatly appreciated.

Liquid validity said:

Yeah I know where you are coming from, for now I'm just taking it at face value

Click to expand...

I assure you I have nothing for sale, yet would give anything to get this monkey of my back.

I need help or it's time to walk away, and I really don't want to do the latter.

Best
John.

Mr Fox said:

I assure you I have nothing for sale, yet would give anything to get this monkey of my back.

I need help or it's time to walk away, and I really don't want to do the latter.

Best
John.

Click to expand...

No worries, I'm not accusing you of anything or suggesting anything.
As you say, you aren't selling anything, as long as that does not change,
I don't have any issue with whats posted.
I couldn't care less about anyone else's returns or claims to be honest.

Mr Fox said:

I assure you I have nothing for sale, yet would give anything to get this monkey of my back.

I need help or it's time to walk away, and I really don't want to do the latter.

Click to expand...

On the basis I might be wrong about your real intent, one quick, free, easy and immediate way to get this monkey off your back is to call your trades live in the thread designated for that purpose on this site.

After a few days of pulling 5-8% net profits you'll have received so many congratulatory posts and PMs on your surefire system and success that you'll be confident enough to make those trades on your own account without a second thought.

Alternatively, you could come up with one or more reasons why that wouldn't be something you want to do right now and regardless of how fancy your footwork was, my suspicions would be confirmed.

If you want. I'll let you now what gave you away so the next site you become a member of you can hone your sales pitch.

After being taught how to trade properly by a trader who has worked for the bank of England also, and I've took time out from live trading, and back tested his strategy to the back of beyond on a 5 min chart, and even live paper trading has produced the same results, Infact I'm now at the point where trading makes perfect sense, and I can see trades just pop out of the charts, but I just cant take live trades.

Click to expand...

sounds to me like you are guilty of wasting that persons time, and yours in teaching you something potentially worthwhile
Trade it on a demo account, if you cant do that stop wasting your own time and give up and get a job. Then apologise to that person.

Personally, I'm with Purple Brain in his thinking

Purple Brain said:

On the basis I might be wrong about your real intent, one quick, free, easy and immediate way to get this monkey off your back is to call your trades live in the thread designated for that purpose on this site.

After a few days of pulling 5-8% net profits you'll have received so many congratulatory posts and PMs on your surefire system and success that you'll be confident enough to make those trades on your own account without a second thought.

Alternatively, you could come up with one or more reasons why that wouldn't be something you want to do right now and regardless of how fancy your footwork was, my suspicions would be confirmed.

If you want. I'll let you now what gave you away so the next site you become a member of you can hone your sales pitch.

Click to expand...

As you are aware my name has not changed from the motoring website you are referring to, and, obviously I have nothing to sell, nor did I purport to sell anything on any motoring website. If you have any proof of this I'm sure you would tell all.

I really do feel totally burned out, and would like assistance from people on this site who can help me.

I just have been open and honest to the fact that I feel burned out, and now I'm having anxiety pulling the trigger, yet as stated there has not been anything remotely significant that has brought me to this junction.

I care not what your name is on the other website, but you too I ask if you have any ideas of how I can get out of this rut, it will be greatly appreciated.

I really have no issue to call my trades live, and I had suggested on another topic I would start a journal, but did not as if the trades are not taken by me personally, then the trades are not live to me, however if you feel this will help me, then I am more than willing to do this.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/psy...chological-emotional-burnout.html#post2185858

Why not just go back to absolute minimum stakes.
Surely you don't get the sweats, shakes and palpitations at 10 pence PP?

Liquid validity said:

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/psy...chological-emotional-burnout.html#post2185858

Why not just go back to absolute minimum stakes.
Surely you don't get the sweats, shakes and palpitations at 10 pence PP?

Click to expand...

I had not thought of this, but most certainly will do it.

Thanks for your advice.

I agree with Liquid validity. If your system is good, try it with a small sized account (live) and if you can trade without any issues, just repeat it for few months and then increase the account size with the profits made (no adding of funds).

Mr Fox said:

I really don't know how to start this post, and seem to write it, then delete it, but the honest, and frank responses I get from people on this forum I've decided to just write it...............

Click to expand...

sounds like you are afraid to put on a trade for whatever reason. think of this in a positive way, once you are able to conquer this fear you are likely to type of person who is not impulsive and lacks discipline, trust me this would be a worse problem.

you need to expel your fear by exposure by trading. I have heard from many floor traders that on their 1st day they were told to go and trade, when they said how, they were told just to go and put a trade on.

I would suggest you get this bug bear out of your system by doing some drills. for example tomorrow you could enter 10 trade purely on a random basis, flip a coin, open the trade and just manage it. Do this on minimum stakes, so you get used to sitting there being in a trade, gradually you should de-sensitize.

either way you need to solve it fast or quit, if I were in the room with you I would probably shout 'you are a trader just fkin trade'

Also as LV said you should not attach great significance to any one trade or any one day for that matter. In a lifetime of trades they dont matter, it is what you do in the long run that matter.

Mr Fox said:

I really have no issue to call my trades live, and I had suggested on another topic I would start a journal, but did not as if the trades are not taken by me personally, then the trades are not live to me, however if you feel this will help me, then I am more than willing to do this.

Click to expand...

I have no idea what website you refer to and I'm assuming that's the fancy footwork I was expecting. Is it just me or is this sounding more like a Nigerian Lottery win email with each post.

Never mind a journal, use the Live trading calls thread.

cablemonster said:

sounds like you are afraid to put on a trade for whatever reason. think of this in a positive way, once you are able to conquer this fear you are likely to type of person who is not impulsive and lacks discipline, trust me this would be a worse problem.

you need to expel your fear by exposure by trading. I have heard from many floor traders that on their 1st day they were told to go and trade, when they said how, they were told just to go and put a trade on.

I would suggest you get this bug bear out of your system by doing some drills. for example tomorrow you could enter 10 trade purely on a random basis, flip a coin, open the trade and just manage it. Do this on minimum stakes, so you get used to sitting there being in a trade, gradually you should de-sensitize.

either way you need to solve it fast or quit, if I were in the room with you I would probably shout 'you are a trader just fkin trade'

Also as LV said you should not attach great significance to any one trade or any one day for that matter. In a lifetime of trades they dont matter, it is what you do in the long run that matter.

Click to expand...

I think you, and LV are totally right in the respect that I have been placing too much emphasis on being up at 7am to be ready to trade, yet if I've got up late for whatever reason I've decided to wait till the next day as maybe 2 opportunities were missed, then if this happened till Wednesday, then I've thought "well the weeks nearly over. I may aswell wait till Monday now".

Would doing what you stated above de-sensitise me from this issue.