New Trader - Any Advice Welcome :O)

Hi All,

I am looking for ways to make money out of the stock market / trading. Not sure where to start though.

Years ago I opened a share dealing account but it wasn't really what I was looking for. I purchased some penny shares as I was told that these were more fast moving and exciting but other than one holding going completely bust the other is just bumping along the bottom which it has done for years.

I was looking for a more dynamic environment so I opened an account with City Index.....not really knowing what I was doing. It seems to be all about spread betting. When I opened the account and saw the real time info and the flashing BUY and SELL I cannot describe the excitement I felt. I thought to myself THIS IS IT! However, my first week in and it feels like this is nothing more than gambling. Am I right to be thinking about it in this way or is there more to it?

I understand that you can identify certain patterns which give you insights into human psychology but ultimately you're just speculating on whether the market will go up or down. I invested £10 and got to £17.60 in my first week but this has got to be beginners luck as I am a complete newbie. If there were a way to interpret patterns effectively and if there is a science behind this it would make me feel a little better about it. The returns can be very exciting and there appears to be a lot of potential but is it just gambling? Can someone make real money in a safe way from spread betting?

Can someone tell me if there is a better alternative / more reasoned way to make money from the markets.....what is day trading and how does this differ from spread betting?

Or is there another method I could look at?

I am going to a power trading course / workshop in London on Saturday so will most likely find out more info there but any advice would be gratefully received.

Thanks,
Jay

Jay3 said:

Hi All,

I am looking for ways to make money out of the stock market / trading. Not sure where to start though.

Can someone tell me if there is a better alternative / more reasoned way to make money from the markets.....Thanks,
Jay

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A better alternative!.....
Open up a Virtual account and start learning all you can about trading Options on major stocks (and NOT Binary Options either)

lloydbee said:

A better alternative!.....
Open up a Virtual account and start learning all you can about trading Options on major stocks (and NOT Binary Options either)

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Thanks for the tip. Could you tell me why this is a better option compared to spread betting? What are binary options. Is there more rationale involved here and less apparent gambling? And are the chances of making a sustainable income from in higher?

ThanksJay

Jay3 said:

Thanks for the tip. Could you tell me why this is a better option compared to spread betting? What are binary options. Is there more rationale involved here and less apparent gambling? And are the chances of making a sustainable income from in higher?

Click to expand...

Hi Jay,
Welcome to T2W.

When you joined the site, you wee sent a welcome e-mail with some links to get you started. Your questions are answered in those links.

Doubtless lloydbee will disagree with me, but I'd advise against trading options for the time being at least. They are a sophisticated derivative product and, as such, not really suitable for newbies to cut their teeth on. Start by learning and confine any trading you do to paper trading a demo account. If you go on any courses, resist the temptation to get your wallet out until you have researched the vendors very carefully - as there are waaaaaay more rogues out there than there are good guys with your best interests at heart. Beware of marketing hype at free introductory seminars as most of them are just a sales pitch for a course of some kind.
Tim.

timsk said:

Hi Jay,
Welcome to T2W.

When you joined the site, you wee sent a welcome e-mail with some links to get you started. Your questions are answered in those links.

Doubtless lloydbee will disagree with me, but I'd advise against trading options for the time being at least. They are a sophisticated derivative product and, as such, not really suitable for newbies to cut their teeth on. Start by learning and confine any trading you do to paper trading a demo account. If you go on any courses, resist the temptation to get your wallet out until you have researched the vendors very carefully - as there are waaaaaay more rogues out there than there are good guys with your best interests at heart. Beware of marketing hype at free introductory seminars as most of them are just a sales pitch for a course of some kind.
Tim.

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Thanks for the info, I have a free course this Saturday actually in London....do you know if these guys are reputable? www.tradingacademy.com/london

Jay3 said:

Thanks for the info, I have a free course this Saturday actually in London....do you know if these guys are reputable? www.tradingacademy.com/london

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Hi Jay,
Check out some reviews here.

My impression is - and it is only an impression - that they enjoy a better reputation than many of their competitors. The problem with all these 'Trader Training' firms is that essentially they are sales organisations that make their money from course fees. As a prospective punter, you need to be absolutely certain that you're going to get information and market insights that you won't get for free here on T2W and elsewhere. Almost certainly - they will address this question in their presentation. The catch-22 for you is that you won't know if their answer has real merit or is just marketing bullpoo!

I would imagine their courses are well packaged, well run and probably a lot of fun. Are they worth the money and will they give you a head start on other newbie traders? Possibly. Will they ensure you're profitable? Absolutely not. But, to be fair to them, the only person who can control that is you and the key thing that will determine how successful you are will be your level of commitment and desire to become the best trader you can be. If you go, keep an open mind, but leave your wallet at home. Don't fall for the 'buy today and get 25% off' routine!

Tim.

Jay3 said:

Thanks for the tip. Could you tell me why this is a better option compared to spread betting? What are binary options. Is there more rationale involved here and less apparent gambling? And are the chances of making a sustainable income from in higher?
ThanksJay

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Why are Options the best?
Options are better than all other forms of trading because they are so flexible and yet so forgiving and at the same time punishing.

You can enter a directional position, get the direction wrong and still have the possibility of a successful trade without any adjustments. You can use a small amount of capital and make consistent small gains or 100's of % profit in very little time. You can take on as much or as little Risk/Reward as you like.

Like you said "but ultimately you're just speculating on whether the market will go up or down" but with options you can add sideways to your arsenal.

timsk said:

Hi Jay,
Welcome to T2W.
Doubtless lloydbee will disagree with me, but I'd advise against trading options for the time being at least. They are a sophisticated derivative product and, as such, not really suitable for newbies to cut their teeth on.
Start by learning and confine any trading you do to paper trading a demo account.Tim.

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As Tim suggests stay away from live trading Options BUT like we BOTH suggested get busy on a Virtual/Paper account and never look back. They are a sophisticated product for sure but once you get your head around them the possibilities are endless and the probabilities for success in a trade can be simply crazy. I'd show you some risk graphs of some of my trades but I doubt you would understand what you are looking at for now.

My basic list for someone new wanting to learn to trade something is..
- Learn to trade Options
- Start VIRTUAL trading asap
- Don't sign up to any trade suggestions a its easy to find a trade
- Trade longer term whilst learning (no fantasy day trading ideas)
- love your computer screens
- get a comfy seat, you'll be in it for a while

Jay3 said:

Thanks for the info, I have a free course this Saturday actually in London....do you know if these guys are reputable? www.tradingacademy.com/london

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Hi,yes i agree with the moderator they are better than most but he,s right they are sales people they are unlikly to trade .I belive you can get the same free on the internet try Babypips for the basics and slightly upwards they are good and it,s free.Dont waste your money you dont have to, you need to save it for trading when you have learnt the basics.Leave your wallet behind at home.there will be pressure to buy on the day it,s the business model they use do not unless you are 110% convinced you cannot get this info elsewere.It will be fun it has to be or they would,nt sell a thing Good Luck Mike

Cool, many thanks for the advice all. Much appreciated.

Jay3 said:

Cool, many thanks for the advice all. Much appreciated.

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Hi Jay (again),
I suspect redtag12 may have a vested interest in Babypips as this is at least the second time he's recommended them to a new member! It's poor advice IMO for the reasons I point out in this post. Note the two links at he end of the post to FAQs about coaching and vendors. It will pay to read those before paying for any kind of training.

For a detailed explanation as to why anyone new to trading ought to think long and hard before opting to trade forex (and, by association, using Babypips as it's a 'forex only' site) - can be found here.

If you go to the Online Trading Academy event - please report back with your impressions!
Tim.

I am looking for ways to make money out of the stock market / trading. Not sure where to start though.

sounds like you are not really ready--harsh but possibly true. All trading is gambling , some will say otherwise. Read plenty and spend a while studying the market before diving in. I never understand anyone that wants to trade "just like that". I liken it to me wanting to be a doctor next week.
Good luck though

timsk said:

Hi Jay (again),
I suspect redtag12 may have a vested interest in Babypips as this is at least the second time he's recommended them to a new member! It's poor advice IMO for the reasons I point out in this post. Note the two links at he end of the post to FAQs about coaching and vendors. It will pay to read those before paying for any kind of training.

For a detailed explanation as to why anyone new to trading ought to think long and hard before opting to trade forex (and, by association, using Babypips as it's a 'forex only' site) - can be found here.

If you go to the Online Trading Academy event - please report back with your impressions!
Tim.

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Hi,Tim,lol no i,m not associated with Babypips at all in any way shape or form.I just think they give good basic training.You cannot link i dont think, thinking hard about trading Forex trading (Which i 100% agree with you) and basic traning from an internet site.Where is the corrolation there please.To look at a site like babypips is Not poor advice at all.So where would you go to find out more about Forex Trading then can we please hear your idea,s on this one.i respect your opinon but your wrong.Regards Mike.

high performance trading vs gambling

tommac said:

I am looking for ways to make money out of the stock market / trading. Not sure where to start though.

sounds like you are not really ready--harsh but possibly true. All trading is gambling , some will say otherwise...

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Hi, tommac,

Good input - trading is certainly not an easy professional career path to take!

However, professional trading and exploiting a statistical EDGE is not gambling directly. Yes - both deal with uncertain outcomes - PLUS - random distribution of these uncertain outcomes. Gambling is the repeated application to generate risk of loss - in games with negative EDGE basis - where the more bets are undertaken, the greater likelihood for eventual bankruptcy of the bankroll. On the other hand, performance-based trading is the repeated application to generate profit > risk - where the more trades are taken the greater likelihood for profitability.

But the difficulty to validate a positive EDGE trading plans is not the major limiting hurdle of most retail traders.

Insufficient bankrolls, over-sized betting, flawed execution/self sabotage of the trading plans - these are the most common areas of trader failure points/errors.

Which begs the question(s) - what are the common factors that cause the trading failures/errors above?

In a brief word - improperly and inadequately trained trader psychology and mindset - is the #1 area of failure/sabotage/errors. The beginning trader is best served when his/her training involves the necessary modeling and conditioning of the best high-performance individuals.

The conditioning (neuroassociations) and training (habits) and educational systems of most individuals are not well-adapted to having to deal with constant uncertainty of outcomes. Factor in the high stress and anxiety levels, plus fear of losing/fear of looking stupid/fear of being wrong, most individuals will not be able to trade profitably.

How can high stress levels, anxiety, and fear, be managed effectively? OK - now we are getting to the area of learning/training/conditioning for peak performance. Study and learn from areas of: :smart:

1. Professional fighters
2. Special Ops/SWAT training
3. Fighter pilot training
4. Astronaut training
5. Olympic athlete training
6. Symphony-level musicians

and many more high-performance achieving "job descriptions" - we can "see" several highly common, highly necessary, required "ingredients":

7. Unwavering passion/desire in faith & belief that detailed visualized level of performance/execution is possible and he/she can and will achieve that status.
8. Intensely detailed and flawlessly clear vision of the desired future "picture".
9. Fears always exist (failure, looking bad, etc) - but - (7) above and the faith and desire is so strong - it makes it perfectly acceptable to fail. The goal(s) must be worthy enough to allow/permit for repeated failures and uncertainty.
10. Standards (training, rehearsing, execution, debriefing) sufficiently high and consistent - to allow maximum possibility and probability for success of (7).
11. Repeated, ongoing, endless training, conditioning, rehearsals, visualizations, to continually "habitualize" winning/high-level performance skills.

There are many more factors related to consistent focused high-performance skills building. I have repeated used the "visual" modality b/c most individuals use their visual modality as their primary high-level training mode.

It has been discussed by high-level traders that the mindset, focus, and "psychology" of the trader is at least 70% of the "ingredient" necessary for consistent and long-term profitability.

The proper training, conditioning, execution-based skill sets, CAN be taught and high-performance reinforcing habits CAN be internalized through repeated training and conditioning!

But - most retail traders will not COMMIT 100% towards their own future successes! It will require time, $$$ for training/coaching/errors, 100% focus, 100% commitment to the vision, 100% commitment to standards, etc.

So - if you fall into the description of the immediate above paragraph - then don't waste your time, $$$, mental capital, to take on trading as a career path.

It is completely OK to not be able to become a profitable trader! It only means that he/she needs to seek out alternate career paths to generate steady income. It does not mean he/she is a "loser" or "quitter" or "not competitive".

There are plenty of ways to generate steady income, grow the net worth, generate passive income, and reach towards financial "freedom". Just that trading is probably not the realistic way for most.

I hope the above statements generate some degree of self-assessment for the many newbie wanna-be traders. The above statements are meant to be non-critical, non-judgmental. But the statements are very realistic with substantial data/evidence to support it.

Please feel free to give your input and observations and questions! Trading is an achievable and rewarding career path - but only for the select few who will operate at the level of 100% focus, commitment, and standards!

Good luck & thx for your time/focus here!

WklyOptions

PS - "financial freedom" = monthly $$$ income > monthly $$$ expenses for the duration of that person's lifespan and lifestyle.

redtag12 said:

Hi,Tim,lol no i,m not associated with Babypips at all in any way shape or form.I just think they give good basic training.You cannot link i dont think, thinking hard about trading Forex trading (Which i 100% agree with you) and basic traning from an internet site.Where is the corrolation there please.To look at a site like babypips is Not poor advice at all.So where would you go to find out more about Forex Trading then can we please hear your idea,s on this one.i respect your opinon but your wrong.Regards Mike.

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Hi Mike,
You appear to be asking two questions which I've highlighted in blue. Sorry, but I'm afraid I don't understand the first one - what 'correlation' are you referring to? Regarding the second, Babypips may be useful to traders who already have a good basic understanding of trading and wish to delve into forex in more detail. I've always acknowledged that. However, I maintain that it's not a good place to get a good introduction to trading in general (as opposed to forex in particular) for the reasons given in the posts I've linked in post #10, above. Please read them carefully and, if you're still unclear about my objection to Babypips, feel free to ask specific questions. If you're still convinced I'm wrong about this, point out the flaws in my argument by countering the very specific points made in those posts!
Tim.

Jay3 said:

Thanks for the tip. Could you tell me why this is a better option compared to spread betting? What are binary options. Is there more rationale involved here and less apparent gambling? And are the chances of making a sustainable income from in higher?

ThanksJay

Click to expand...

options may be a complex place to begin from.
worked for ed thorp tho

Maaaan, just lose couple of deposits in forex trading and you'll be quickly clued up in subject. You will get everything you need - experience, some knowledge, motivation, rage.

I think you seems having patience, so should go for forex but before getting into real account you should use demo account and this will help you earn good profit than others if traded properly.