Metatrader bucket shops

Hi

Why do brokers quote fictitious fixed spreads when market spreads are actually much worse?

Here are night time spreads on forex , yet the brokers are quoting 1.8 pips.
What happens when client places orders ?Broker moves prices and delays execution and requotes using virtual dealer plugin.

oildaytrader said:

Hi

Why do brokers quote fictitious fixed spreads when market spreads are actually much worse?

Here are night time spreads on forex , yet the brokers are quoting 1.8 pips.
What happens when client places orders ?Broker moves prices and delays execution and requotes using virtual dealer plugin.

Click to expand...

From Google:

Fraud or not: metatrader 4 virtual dealer plugin Boston Technologies - BabyPips.com Forex Forum

MT4 Brokers' Virtual Dealer Plug-In @ Forex Factory

MT4 Brokers' Virtual Dealer Plug-In - Page 31 @ Forex Factory

But how much is genuine comment and how much sour grapes from poor traders?

oildaytrader said:

...Here are night time spreads on forex...

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Just one providers prices there. I'm seeing max 1.5 wide on IB for modest sizes on several majors at this time of the evening.

I think we all know that with MT4 brokers your'e not really trading, you deposit in one currency, all the trades are virtual, and your'e only allowed to withdraw in the same currency.

neil said:

From Google:

Fraud or not: metatrader 4 virtual dealer plugin Boston Technologies - BabyPips.com Forex Forum

MT4 Brokers' Virtual Dealer Plug-In @ Forex Factory

MT4 Brokers' Virtual Dealer Plug-In - Page 31 @ Forex Factory

But how much is genuine comment and how much sour grapes from poor traders?

Click to expand...

Here is genuine comment

Fxcm - Page 17 - Forex Trading

The brokers would dismiss it as sour grapes ,but why should they not ?

Oildaytrader

gc1 said:

Just one providers prices there. I'm seeing max 1.5 wide on IB for modest sizes on several majors at this time of the evening.

I think we all know that with MT4 brokers your'e not really trading, you deposit in one currency, all the trades are virtual, and your'e only allowed to withdraw in the same currency.

Click to expand...

Get some actual traded fills at quoted prices and I will believe you.Those prices are quotes only , sometimes offers will touch your bids and you will witness imaginary fills.

neil said:

From Google:



But how much is genuine comment and how much sour grapes from poor traders?

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See the slippage inflicted with your own eyes.See the tickets and actual fills.

I do have an account with ODL and I have no problems using their STP set up .

oildaytrader said:

Here is genuine comment

Fxcm - Page 17 - Forex Trading

The brokers would dismiss it as sour grapes ,but why should they not ?

Oildaytrader

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Hi Oildaytrader,

It's important to understand what the virtual dealer plugin does and how it would benefit a broker to then see which brokers would actually have the incentive to use it. I think a little more clarity is in order rather than leaving this to speculation.

What exactly is the virtual dealer plugin? It is a plugin created by metaquotes that allows a broker to delay the execution of an order or preset the amount of slippage on an order. So why would a broker want to do this? The most obvious reason would be because it increases profitability for the broker. How do brokers make money and how would this increase profitability? A broker can make money by using one of two execution models. 1)The brokers dealing desk takes the other side of client trades and profits when a trader loses money OR 2) the broker earns money based on order volume by charging a commission or pip mark-up and offsets the position immediately to neutralize market making risk.

If the broker is taking the other side of the trade in a Dealing Desk setup, then it's in the brokers best interest for you to lose. Sort of like if you're going to the casino. The house hates to lose. Therefore they want the odds to be in their favor. If your order execution is delayed, slippage increased, or trade requoted, that means it gives the broker the opportunity to give you a worse price and increase their profit.

If the broker is earning a commission or a pip mark-up on the trade and offsetting the position immediately, then the outcome of the trade has no bearing on the brokers profit or loss. Increasing the slippage or delaying execution of the trade doesn't mean a larger commission or pip-mark up is paid. The same amount is paid to the broker regardless of the execution price. Therefore there's no reason to use a plugin such as this.

This doesn't mean that some brokers don't use it. How your broker is offsetting their order flow and if it would be in their best interest to use the plugin is something you should evaluate with any broker based on their execution practices.

As far as your reference to the topic on the FXCM thread of another forum, I believe I discussed the same topic there in a later post, but will provide a response here as well.

FXCM's MT4 trading platform uses No Dealing Desk execution and there are no re-quotes. Each order is offset back to back with a bank or financial institution therefore the outcome of your trade has no effect on FXCM's profit or loss. A pip-mark up is built into the spread which is how FXCM makes money. The amount FXCM makes is the same whethere you are filled at the current price or filled by the bank at the next best available price. FXCM chose this execution model because it removes the conflict of interest that exists when a broker takes the opposite side of a traders transaction.

We want profitable traders because profitable traders trade more volume.

oildaytrader said:

Here is genuine comment

Fxcm - Page 17 - Forex Trading


The brokers would dismiss it as sour grapes ,but why should they not ?

Oildaytrader

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OILY...don't forget to present the other side of the above complaint...the answer from the broker. Genuine comment from a complainant isn't necessarily accurate comment.

see reply from FXCM (Why ignore their reply...doesn't it fit your agenda)

Fxcm - Page 18 - Forex Trading



Then you accuse brokers of stating the complainant has "sour grapes."
Where is your proof...(Innuendois not proof by the way ...neither is citing someone's unproven allegations )

neil said:

OILY...don't forget to present the other side of the above complaint...the answer from the broker. Genuine comment from a complainant isn't necessarily accurate comment.

see reply from FXCM (Why ignore their reply...doesn't it fit your agenda)

Fxcm - Page 18 - Forex Trading



Then you accuse brokers of stating the complainant has "sour grapes."
Where is your proof...(Innuendois not proof by the way ...neither is citing someone's unproven allegations )

Click to expand...

Neil

FXCM reply was well read .It pointed out facts about FXCM's other platform and execution policies.

The reply did not address the complaint and it was the main reason why client closed his account.The problem related to metatrader 4 platform and the negative slippage to clients using the the Boston Technologies metatrader bridge.

I will repeat what the client said "Then if i did close the trade manually or if i did use a limit price, they did close most of the time my trade up to 3 pips diference (again, not in my favor).The same hapen with the stop loss, they did close the trades up to 3 pips diference (one more time not in my favor).During this events I did contact them by they chat and the answer always was "sorry" but this is the best price that we find for your position.This hapen to me 80% to 85% of the times."

I am using other metatrader bridges with other brokers ,I have no or very little slippage.I read all the BS on the Boston Technology site why the slippage occurs, and an example of how the client is getting positive slippage.

mt4 stp faq - Google Search


Before I give you more proof I strongly suggest a visit to the optician.Get some magnifying glasses.

FXCM have a good platform and API , and I am surprised why they can not develop their own API .A little bit of investment in a ready made api template would eliminate the need for automated traders to require metatrader 4.Those clients trading manually do not need to use metatrader 4 , and those automated traders can use FXCM API.

I estimate a cost of no more than $10,000 to FXCM to supply a free API set up to automated traders.A lot of us are using Metatrader 4 because it was handed to us free .Think how a free api template would get fxcm so many potential customers.

I am currently developing an API for the same platform FXCM use.

OILDAYTRADER

oildaytrader said:

Neil

FXCM reply was well read .It pointed out facts about FXCM's other platform and execution policies.

The reply did not address the complaint and it was the main reason why client closed his account.The problem related to metatrader 4 platform and the negative slippage to clients using the the Boston Technologies metatrader bridge.

I will repeat what the client said "Then if i did close the trade manually or if i did use a limit price, they did close most of the time my trade up to 3 pips diference (again, not in my favor).The same hapen with the stop loss, they did close the trades up to 3 pips diference (one more time not in my favor).During this events I did contact them by they chat and the answer always was "sorry" but this is the best price that we find for your position.This hapen to me 80% to 85% of the times."

I am using other metatrader bridges with other brokers ,I have no or very little slippage.I read all the BS on the Boston Technology site why the slippage occurs, and an example of how the client is getting positive slippage.

mt4 stp faq - Google Search


Before I give you more proof I strongly suggest a visit to the optician.Get some magnifying glasses.

FXCM have a good platform and API , and I am surprised why they can not develop their own API .A little bit of investment in a ready made api template would eliminate the need for automated traders to require metatrader 4.Those clients trading manually do not need to use metatrader 4 , and those automated traders can use FXCM API.

I estimate a cost of no more than $10,000 to FXCM to supply a free API set up to automated traders.A lot of us are using Metatrader 4 because it was handed to us free .Think how a free api template would get fxcm so many potential customers.

I am currently developing an API for the same platform FXCM use.

OILDAYTRADER

Click to expand...

Hi OILDAYTRADER,

My reply was written in the very next post Fxcm - Page 18 - Forex Trading . FXCM's MT4 platform uses market execution. All orders are sent to the banks as At Best market orders. There can be both positive or negative slippage on trades since the fill is dependent on liquidity at that price. The laws of supply and demand are at work here.

As far as API, FXCM has free API available at www.fxprogrammers.com .

Jason

Jason Rogers said:

Hi OILDAYTRADER,

My reply was written in the very next post Fxcm - Page 18 - Forex Trading . FXCM's MT4 platform uses market execution. All orders are sent to the banks as At Best market orders. There can be both positive or negative slippage on trades since the fill is dependent on liquidity at that price. The laws of supply and demand are at work here.

As far as API, FXCM has free API available at www.fxprogrammers.com .

Jason

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Therefore Oilytraderspammer...you get the magnifying glasses since you need them

neil said:

Therefore Oilytraderspammer...you get the magnifying glasses since you need them

Click to expand...

Just book your appointment at Specsavers , two for one deal.Then you will read clearly

OILDAYTRADER

oildaytrader said:

Just book your appointment at Specsavers , two for one deal.Then you will read clearly

OILDAYTRADER

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As a spammer you should read more closely. You keep both pairs:cheesy:

Jason Rogers said:

Hi OILDAYTRADER,


As far as API, FXCM has free API available at www.fxprogrammers.com .

Jason

Click to expand...

I know about the above.I was thinking more of an ready coded API , where users just insert account number , signals for entry , filters ,t/p,s/l and indicator values.Traders would not have to code more on their API

OILDAYTRADER

oildaytrader said:

I know about the above.I was thinking more of an ready coded API , where users just insert account number , signals for entry , filters ,t/p,s/l and indicator values.Traders would not have to code more on their API

OILDAYTRADER

Click to expand...

Do you actually understand what an API is ?

zupcon said:

Do you actually understand what an API is ?

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API is a set of routines, protocols, and tools for building software applications.

I was thinking about an api with a precoded trading systems software.

OILDAYTRADER

oildaytrader said:

I was thinking about an api with a precoded trading systems software.

OILDAYTRADER

Click to expand...

In fairness, the majority of API providers do tend to supply a decent range of examples across a range of programming languages, I've even seen simple examples in Excel allowing the punter to see quotes, and to open, close and modify orders.

Likewise, most brokers offering API access to their platforms provide perfectly usable order entry facilities and charting for non programmers.

zupcon said:

In fairness, the majority of API providers do tend to supply a decent range of examples across a range of programming languages, I've even seen simple examples in Excel allowing the punter to see quotes, and to open, close and modify orders.

Likewise, most brokers offering API access to their platforms provide perfectly usable order entry facilities and charting for non programmers.

Click to expand...

Yeah trade on random entries and lose more strategy for broker.WTF are u going to make using excel buy or sell dde? Zulch!y they give you excel DDE ?Cause bucktmasters know u loose with DDE excel .Total pice of xxxx, so trade against you.

95% of traders lose money , so take other side of trade and become a bucketshop.

End of Metatrader is written in my books today.Goodbye dealer plug in!

We have today authorised API with automated trading software to be developed.

OILDAYTRADER

oildaytrader said:

Yeah trade on random entries and lose more strategy for broker.WTF are u going to make using excel buy or sell dde? Zulch!y they give you excel DDE ?Cause bucktmasters know u loose with DDE excel .Total pice of xxxx, so trade against you.

95% of traders lose money , so take other side of trade and become a bucketshop.

End of Metatrader is written in my books today.Goodbye dealer plug in!

We have today authorised API with automated trading software to be developed.

OILDAYTRADER

Click to expand...

It might actually help if you understood what an API was, and how its actually used ! you dont write it, its already been written for you to use !

The excel examples for every single API that Ive evaluated (and thats all of em) use VBA, not DDE (which hasnt actually been officially supported by microsoft for eons, that particular technology is 10 years out of date and there are very few brokers still using it)

random entries have always been and continue to be profitable for me, but then again, having spent the last 6 or 7 years doing this as a full time occupation, I actually know what Im doing

zupcon said:

random entries have always been and continue to be profitable for me, but then again, having spent the last 6 or 7 years doing this as a full time occupation, I actually know what Im doing

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I never had you down for this I must say small world:-0