spanish89...

on any spanish89 discussion threads would you like to -

  • close all threads and bin any new threads started

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  • couldn't care less

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trader_dante

trader_dante

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I've been reading his thread over on ET. I think he is actually showing a lot of promise in his development. He really is improving and showing himself to be flexible to adapt to new market conditions and acts decisively and confidently. But what impressed me the most was in a post he wrote:

It may sound silly and absurd, but if you are a newbie/unsucessful , and you go to your virtual account and actually actively try to LOSE as much money as possible it not as easy as it sounds!

This is actually incredibly sound advice. We were given a similar exercise when we joined our prop firm. Try to lose as much money as you can without simply entering and exiting (thus losing the spread).

I cannot explain why it works but as a hands on exercise, it delivers perhaps the quickest and most powerful lesson of any I have seen.

Tom
 
I've been following his progress and chatting with him and I think he's doing very well. Fair play I say.
 
trader_dante said:
I've been reading his thread over on ET. I think he is actually showing a lot of promise in his development. He really is improving and showing himself to be flexible to adapt to new market conditions and acts decisively and confidently. But what impressed me the most was in a post he wrote:

It may sound silly and absurd, but if you are a newbie/unsucessful , and you go to your virtual account and actually actively try to LOSE as much money as possible it not as easy as it sounds!

This is actually incredibly sound advice. We were given a similar exercise when we joined our prop firm. Try to lose as much money as you can without simply entering and exiting (thus losing the spread).

I cannot explain why it works but as a hands on exercise, it delivers perhaps the quickest and most powerful lesson of any I have seen.

Tom
Click to expand...

Spanish89 the legend lives on! If you were actually forced to pay out any money you make during the exercise you would feel the pressure just the same. It's just that in this exercise, 'losing' takes on a different meaning.
 
As Spanish says, it's as hard to deliberately LOSE as it is to deliberately WIN.

This is somewhat of a big revelation.
 
trader_dante said:
As Spanish says, it's as hard to deliberately LOSE as it is to deliberately WIN.

This is somewhat of a big revelation.
Click to expand...

Not to me. In order to deliberately lose, you need to place a SELL when you think the market is going up. That's all. It still requires judgement of some sort doesn't it?
 
I haven't been reading his thread at ET, but if I remember correctly he had sthg like a thousand pounds in his account or a figure round about there anyway, and its been MONTHS since he was here and there were lots of predictions of his imminent blow-up making the rounds at the time, and yet he is still making a living off of that yonks later ?

Now to me - and admittredly I don't know any details here - that does not sound like being even remotely down to luck...

He must have been on quite a steep learning curve, and even then, with your price levels over there in the UK - rents etc - , what he is pulling off is nothing short of amazing, to be honest: meeting his living costs monthly from a 1K account !
 
Are we talking trying to let the losers run and cutting the winners short or set targets for these losers? Makes a big difference.

As for Spanish, good on him and well done, totally blew all the theories out the water and if I wore a hat, I'd tip it!
 
Great. This is all we need now. A thread about losing strategies...

I have a good MA crossover system that works well..
 
trader_dante said:
As Spanish says, it's as hard to deliberately LOSE as it is to deliberately WIN.

This is somewhat of a big revelation.
Click to expand...


That is something I have been telling people for years. The guy clearly has a natural gift for this stuff.

Having said that, there is one way to make sure you lose very quickly: leverage to the hilt and don't use a stop. What he is saying, of course, is don't leverage and get out when it looks like you are wrong.
 
Excellent way of looking at things. The easiest way to 'win' that game and lose all your cash on purpose (or not) is to risk too much.

Think of the time you were playing heads up on the final table of a poker tournament, against that lucky b@astard whos been calling all in bets and hitting a seemingly endless run of 20/1 draws all night.

He's got all the chips and youve got 8 blinds left... even though he is rubbish player (and youre the best in the world, obviously) your still highly probably going to lose because you are essentialy being forced to make bigger bets than your bankroll (8 blinds) can stand.

The 'winning' strategy for this lose all your cash experiment, highlights the top three tips for risking money:

1) Always bet within your bankroll!
2) Always bet within your bankroll!
3) Always bet within your bankroll!
 
Pointless exercise

A very complicated way of saying that most people don't have a clue what they are doing, whether they are trying to win or lose. In order to deliberately do something wrong, you have to know how to do it right, surely?? I fail to see the significance of this "experiment". If a person doesn't make a connection between "right" and "wrong" then it is an utterly pointless exercise. Get a child to trade and don’t tell them what the object of the game is and see what the results are. Then tell them the idea is to reduce the amount of money in the account but have a programmer make the amount read the opposite of what it normally does, ie/A trade showing a profit when it should be showing a loss. Will that make a difference?
 
trader_dante said:
As Spanish says, it's as hard to deliberately LOSE as it is to deliberately WIN.

This is somewhat of a big revelation.
Click to expand...

It's a bit embarrassing to admit to, but the way I started making money was to do the exact opposite of what I had been doing to lose money (replace long/short, stop/limit).

If your losses are >> spreads then the logic is flawless. The ones that are in real trouble are those that break even!

Ben
 
RedGreenBen said:
It's a bit embarrassing to admit to, but the way I started making money was to do the exact opposite of what I had been doing to lose money (replace long/short, stop/limit).

If your losses are >> spreads then the logic is flawless. The ones that are in real trouble are those that break even!

Ben
Click to expand...

Ah! Funny you should mention this because I was going to add that as a caveat! I agree, if you were doing EXACTLY the wrong thing at EXACTLY the right time, every time, then yes, doing the opposite works. But, as you rightly say, those that sometimes get it right but don't know why just simply cannot do the opposite. Like I said, the connection between "right" and "wrong" must be made before doing the opposite will help. Trading, being a game of strategy, it is impossible define the opposite other than with Buy or Sell. What is the opposite of entering too early? Is it entering too late? In which case doing the opposite won’t really help will it? It's more of a Goldilocks situation where you have to get things just right!
 
trader_dante said:
Is it?

Rather than simply having an opinion over what will work and what won't, has anyone actually traded another persons strategy for at least 3 months, taken all the signals within reason, kept to the rules AND lost money??

I doubt it.
Click to expand...

You can remove the strategy from a person, but can you remove a person from the strategy.

If you 100% can, you have a potential candidate for automation.

If you 100% cannot, then you have a discretionary system and the extent to which another person that other person performs better or worse than the original person may be a measure of the discretionary element. I say maybe, because both the originator and the second person may employ different levels of discretion and arrive at the same or vastly different results.

Indeed the perception of each trader with regard to the amount of discretion they use may be vastly different to the level of discretion judged by an external "neutral" observer.

I suspect that you could only truly answer your question by trading blindly a balck box or advisory system, because in all other cases emotion, psychology and reasoning would interfere.

Charlton
 
He''ll love this thread because I know that he still pops in to read the forum from time to time, but its true. He is an excellent trader. I said he'd blow up but am brave enough to admit that I was wrong, lol.

Ive stopped reading his posts over on ET as of yesterday. No point anymore. He's provenn himself to me now. Making at least a thousand pounds per week by the looks of it since he left this forum! He's one of the successful 5% and I expect him to be a very rich man one day.
 
keano said:
He''ll love this thread because I know that he still pops in to read the forum from time to time, but its true. He is an excellent trader. I said he'd blow up but am brave enough to admit that I was wrong, lol.

Ive stopped reading his posts over on ET as of yesterday. No point anymore. He's provenn himself to me now. Making at least a thousand pounds per week by the looks of it since he left this forum! He's one of the successful 5% and I expect him to be a very rich man one day.
Click to expand...


LOL,

Sounds like someones in love with him:LOL:

Throw enough monkey's at the keyboard of a trading station and at least one will come up trumps.

time has proven that luck can run many times in one person for a long time, but runs out several times over for many. (theres nothing to learn from this guy that doesn't already exist in text books)


Lee Shepherd. (a disliker of spanish trading system, if you can call it that)
 
The Spanish Evolution

BSD said:
I haven't been reading his thread at ET, but if I remember correctly he had sthg like a thousand pounds in his account or a figure round about there anyway, and its been MONTHS since he was here and there were lots of predictions of his imminent blow-up making the rounds at the time, and yet he is still making a living off of that yonks later ?

Now to me - and admittredly I don't know any details here - that does not sound like being even remotely down to luck...

He must have been on quite a steep learning curve, and even then, with your price levels over there in the UK - rents etc - , what he is pulling off is nothing short of amazing, to be honest: meeting his living costs monthly from a 1K account !
Click to expand...
I also think he has done well. His account has reached 10k now and he seems to be making about 1k per week. I don't think that this can be put down to a lucky streak any more. I believe that it is primarily due to him spending a lot of time poring over charts, watching price action and following news on his one chosen instrument - oil.

In this respect he is following all of the guidance one would normally give to others. Furthermore he is working on his psychology and so seems to be doing all the right things.

Whether or not his risk management is suitable or not, I don't really know because I haven't followed what he is doing in depth. The danger may be that he blows his account and becomes reckless and too over-confident.

I haven't always agreed with everything he has done in the past, but he has done well for a 19 year old and if continues in this way with care and attention he should do great.

God - I sound like a teacher at a PTA :rolleyes:


Charlton
 
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