Trading News with S&R

mp6140

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so ill add a little of my own, and using a little history for fun

at the end of WW2, europe and england lay in ruins, their infrastructures, manufacturing, economy and hopes destroyed for the time being. America, having had no measurable attacks on its infrastructure, although weakened by the monetary expenses of the war, stood as the only "first" world country that had not fought on its own homeland, and was now able to capitalize on this, its returning soldiers and thru this, cutting to the chase, created a booming economy, VERY strongly based on a somewhat capricious "cold war" stratagy, and its constant fight against Communism (which, btw, was ONE of the TWO feared "isms" of pre-war europe, but ill skip that for a moment)

After 50 some odd years, Europe had rebuilt itself into a strong marketplace and economy, which was to be expected, so while America achieved its economic greatness early on, Europe and Asia were slowly developing theres BACK to where it was pre war and in the normal course of events, ESPECIALLY since it is now one economic blok, should always be thought of as continuing upwards !

NOW, if one ventures a look at some charts along the lines of daily, weekly, monthly, yearly, and 5 yearly an interesting pattern presents itself --- the Euro, over MANY years had been "reasonably" flat although contained within a slight uptrend, and ONLY IN AUGUST OF 2007 DID IT BEGIN ITS PHENOMINAL CLIMB AGAINST THE POUND -- against the dollar, its growth from destroyed nations to strong economic force has been much more constant, showing in the longer range charts as climbing within a relatively narrow channel, with the usually almost clockwork predictable ups and downs of normal currency cycles and now showing a definite toppiness as compared to the dollar. Against the Pound, its has broken FAR out of the channel to the topside and foolish would be those who would think this shall continue unabaited, with no selloffs and resultant shorts to now pull it down for a while.

BECAUSE OF INFLATION, all currency charts AIM UP for the long haul, and have their usual downturns which is reasonably predictable on the charts, and usually waiting for a "spark" of news to alter thier direction when they are topped, and OFTEN anything will set it off --- Personally, I think we see the USD turn this summer, only because its summer, but "someone" will find the "reason" it turned but i will stick to "summer !"

Now, going a bit further, how many of you out there are aware of "the new world order", "the trilateral commission", and the "council on economic relations ?"

started by Cecil Rhodes (notice the name please) from the original "secret society" in england, it was based on the idea that if ALL countries shared in the wealth, no one would need the other countries property and land ---- notice that this is a VERY loose interpretation of what they wanted, but holds well into today where the tilaterals are the front organization for the present council, which grew out of the one started in WW1.

many interesting things exist with the council, not the least of which is that every american president since ww2 has been a member and that their aim in life is to create "economic bloks" for the differing nation states based on "continents" -- so you would have an "american economic continent", a "european economic continent", an "asian economic continent" and so on with, once again, the idea of "economic contentment" overriding and superceeding the need for war !

of course, this narrow view does not take into consideration mans desire to spill his testosterone all over the place and while physical war might greatly diminish, what is to stop ECONOMIC WAR !!!

will people once divided into "economic spheres of interest" suddenly lay down arms, roast marshmallows around a fire and sing "Kumbaiyah" together ?

HELL NO, but I only worked for the council once and had no say amongst the ruling class !

NOW, before you tell me im nuts, WHAT IS NAFTA, WHAT IS THE EUROPEAN UNION, and what are all the other "economic spheres" that are being formed ?????????

so in the end, the euro will become great, the dollar will be great and the various "yen's" will become great, and a few we dont know yet, like the "russian economic sphere", the "islamic economic spheres" and whatever else is in the cards for the future.

personally, i dont think it will work because ALL types of "isms" tend to leave out the human factor, and as we all know, humans can do the damdest things !

btw --- Hillary and bill are members of the council but I dont know if Obahma is or not !

your happy economic historian cum trader/dutch uncle/teacher

one last thing --- anyone who refers to such a benign and simplistic thing as trading by reference to a book on WAR, needs to have some parts of their psychology examined -- trading is about as far from warfare as one can get ---- you are not fighting ANYONE but simply making educated moves on a constantly changing game board where success is measured by the number of correct moves you make, but there is no enemy to bloody, no land to conquer, no people to rape, pillage and enslave nor force your religion on them ---- there aint nothing but the satisfaction of a job well done, and the monetary reward !

Those who think its WARFARE had better play a lot more video games, or beat their wives for a longer period of time, cause SOMETHING is certainly messed up !

mp
 
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Excerpt from "Trading for a Living" by Dr Alexander Elder

The only reason there is money in the markets is that other traders put it there. The money you want to make belongs to other people who have no intention of giving it to you.

Tradings means trying to rob other people while they are trying to rob you. It is a hard business. Winning is especially difficult because brokers and floor traders skim money from winners and losers alike.

A man used to go on a battlefield with his sword and try to kill his opponent, who was trying to kill him at the same time. The winner took the loser's weapons, his chattels, and his wife, and sold his children into slavery. Now we trade on the exchanges instead of doing battle in an open field. When you take money away from a man, it is not that different from drawing his blood. He may lose his house, his chattels, and his wife, and his children may suffer.

(italics are Elders - not mine)

The war analogy is better likened to the planning of, rather than the front line battling, to me. When thinking about planning war related missions and assaults (as you do of a Sunday afternoon ;) ) war does become more like a strategy game... chess, poker, etc... and trading is definately like a game. I suppose the war analogy to me, would be more like 'trading is like a war game' than 'trading is like war'.

(... just check if that is how you spell analogy... aaand submit.)
 
Firstly, thanks to all those that have comented on my posts.

grim - . . . . . . . . .l . . In my experience, economists make lousy traders, and vice versa. Economists have famously predicted 8 of the last 3 recessions.

it was said as a joke -- you missed it i gather !

Don't even dream of using indicators if you can help it. New traders too often confuse correlation with causation, with indcators only re-packaging a small amount of the information contained within price, and then delivering it late.

how about older, successful traders --- is it ok if they use indicators ??
grow yourself into the concept that there are NO absolutes in this world --- YOU may not like them, but my clients accounts sure do !


By using indicators, you end up trading the indicator and not the price - e.g. long/short on an MACD crossover (or such and such..). Traders see that MACD is due to rise, and so take a long position in price to try and capture some of the MACD move - the complete opposite of what their P/L is measured by.

The only way to profit from indicators is if you can find someone to take the other end of a CFD or spread bet with the indicator as the underlying, not price. And the things are cyclic and range bound, so who is going to make a market in them?????

every single second of every single day of every single week of every single month of every single year and ad-nauseam there are traders who will take the opposite side of any and all trades ---- they dont ring me up and ask if my trade is price movement, indicator driven, or my ferret throwing darts and my clients dont bother to ask either, they just smile a lot and talk to their tax person !

As a trader, I have never understood economists OR indicators, but I accept that there are those who do very well out of both.

while i dont have much truck with economists, indicators are another story --- i guess there are those who know how to use them and those who are confused. Theyre learnable, if one wishes to learn or one can trade without them completely --- after all, there are probably some who can fly a commercial jet with few indicators at all simply using "seat of the pants" routines, but id sure feel better knowing the pilot has a gas guage, altimeter and engine monitoring guages !

remember, once again, there are NO absolutes in trading cause just when you figure you got one, it turns on you and bites you in parts of your exterior that you might not like bitten !

enjoy and trade well

mp
 
See attached.

In the commentary, I mention looking at the USD/JPY chart. Comparing to two side by side gives an indication of how the dollar had eroded with demand for the carry trade, infact the charts are nearly identical. I mention it to help with the issue of timing; there are interesting setups on both the USD/JPY dailies and hourlies right now, a sign that the dollar may well be due to weaken again soon.
see above.

havent spent a lot of time with the others, but take a good look at EURUSD on daily, weekly and monthly charts and toppiness is well the order of the day --- not tomorrow, but sooner than you might believe.

Knowing that is really of little consequence to how i trade, but it will alert me to use care in going long as the euro hits the top of the LRC.

dont much care about the rest though

mp
 
remember, once again, there are NO absolutes in trading!

That sounds like an absolute to me ;)

===================================================

actually, without letting my imagination run wild, i imagine there are no absolutes in practically anything except vodka

and thats positively the last thing ill say on that --- absolutely !

mp
 
Davidnmfarrell and smbtnt, I have posted the note about entries and determinng R:R I mentioned to you both on th thread entitled MrGecko's Briefcase :cool:

Davidnmfarrell, in the end I didn't publish the expose on your trade that I though I was going to. TBH, the whole thing ballooned a bit. Anyway, kudos goes to you for being a good sport (you should be able to see where you could have done things better if you read the R:R word document).

To others who have found the PA analysis interesting, this is where I will be posting them in the future (amongst other things, like the R:R essay mentioned above). To continue posting them here is just going to mess this whole thread up.
 
MP --- trading news can be considered as rather simple

Rider5,

There were 2 major announcments today; 1. Bank of England Interest Rates followed by; 2. Eurozone Interest Rates.

Always a good idea to have the major economic news on your radar as the charts can't really tell you huge amounts going into the decisions, bar maybe an area of consolidation prior to any announcment.

Oil reaching new highs will also play on Traders' minds as this increases the likleyhood of Inflation numbers getting higher. This is also good news for gold. I have not really found many times when gold rises as well as the USD as gold is priced in dollars. As the USD drops then so Gold becomes more appealing.
I may be wrong, but I try not to have a position against gold and USD at the same time for example.
Good Trading,
Grim

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oh grimweasel, THAT is SO wrong !

all one has to do is watch the preceeding price action before the announcement to FULLY see what the banks and brokers are doing

if one has support and resist on their charts, they can practically predict to the penny (which i did last nite) WHERE the price is going ---- its not simple for those with a minimum of experience, but its "practically" a snap for those with experience and knowledge of how the market works.

if the price is going up before news, one looks at the 240 min chart, finds resistance, and thats where the news will take it before it then reverses, and WE KNOW it will reverse, or the banks would not have driven the price UP.

by driving the price UP, the banks are SHOUTING that they will be shorting it, you simply wait for top resistance on the LRC to be hit.

before news, they are so predictable as to be a joy !

oh laddie, what most of you simply dont know and yet could learn so easily !

enjoy and trade well

mp
 
oh grimweasel, THAT is SO wrong !

all one has to do is watch the preceeding price action before the announcement to FULLY see what the banks and brokers are doing

if one has support and resist on their charts, they can practically predict to the penny (which i did last nite) WHERE the price is going ---- its not simple for those with a minimum of experience, but its "practically" a snap for those with experience and knowledge of how the market works.

if the price is going up before news, one looks at the 240 min chart, finds resistance, and thats where the news will take it before it then reverses, and WE KNOW it will reverse, or the banks would not have driven the price UP.

by driving the price UP, the banks are SHOUTING that they will be shorting it, you simply wait for top resistance on the LRC to be hit.

before news, they are so predictable as to be a joy !

oh laddie, what most of you simply dont know and yet could learn so easily !

enjoy and trade well

mp[/QUOTE]

MP
Thanks for the clarification. As I said, I may be wrong!!
I find the price a little wild at key decisions and somewhat scary; I even liquidate some positions prior to news and re-enter once the direction is know. Thanks for the pointer on the 4hr charts. So what you are saying is that one should watch the price action prior to the announcment and then once the drection is know look for your S/R or TLs above/below and target that as your level to get out again?
I have found an excellent little indicator that seems to be on the money with regard to TLs;It's dynamic and changes as the price moves, but intraday it becomes very good for just trading the channel!
Thanks again,
Grim
 

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MP
Thanks for the clarification. As I said, I may be wrong!!
I find the price a little wild at key decisions and somewhat scary; I even liquidate some positions prior to news and re-enter once the direction is know. Thanks for the pointer on the 4hr charts. So what you are saying is that one should watch the price action prior to the announcment and then once the drection is know look for your S/R or TLs above/below and target that as your level to get out again?
I have found an excellent little indicator that seems to be on the money with regard to TLs;It's dynamic and changes as the price moves, but intraday it becomes very good for just trading the channel!
Thanks again,
Grim
=========================================================

the important thing, because the prices will be moving about like a mexican jumping bean, is to lock into the trend --- once you have the trend, you can then use s/r to give you your exit figures on the inevitable upside move (which then turns into a downside one )

INEVITABLY the brokers and banks will be moving the prices on the daily or 10 day/240 min charts in the direction OPPOSITE to where they will REALLY move the price. Reasons are, the banks already KNOW what the news is (or have a REALLY good guess from their battalions of analysists) so they move the price UP to its high, if they expect bad news (like todays brit decrease)--- If the price is not yet at its highest point, when news comes out they will continue the price UP till it hits topside resistance (theyre selling into the rally and doing it by SHORTING the currency) then, with their short positions firmly held, they reverse the direction of the currency and DOWN SHE GOES !

That is the most impt thing to understand --- watch your volumes as the price moves up and when it increases, IT IS NOT PEOPLE BUYING, but rather the institutions selling to the buyers who want in on the rally) (ok, so there are buyers and sellers, but the sellers are the SMART money)

trading is more than simply following whats happening, its a game of trying to get ahead of what "THEY" are doing, and the price action before the news will tell you tons !

mp
 
=========================================================

the important thing, because the prices will be moving about like a mexican jumping bean, is to lock into the trend --- once you have the trend, you can then use s/r to give you your exit figures on the inevitable upside move (which then turns into a downside one )

INEVITABLY the brokers and banks will be moving the prices on the daily or 10 day/240 min charts in the direction OPPOSITE to where they will REALLY move the price. Reasons are, the banks already KNOW what the news is (or have a REALLY good guess from their battalions of analysists) so they move the price UP to its high, if they expect bad news (like todays brit decrease)--- If the price is not yet at its highest point, when news comes out they will continue the price UP till it hits topside resistance (theyre selling into the rally and doing it by SHORTING the currency) then, with their short positions firmly held, they reverse the direction of the currency and DOWN SHE GOES !

That is the most impt thing to understand --- watch your volumes as the price moves up and when it increases, IT IS NOT PEOPLE BUYING, but rather the institutions selling to the buyers who want in on the rally) (ok, so there are buyers and sellers, but the sellers are the SMART money)

trading is more than simply following whats happening, its a game of trying to get ahead of what "THEY" are doing, and the price action before the news will tell you tons !

mp

please can you post some chart examples of this?
 
Mp -- Charts

please can you post some chart examples of this?

GBPUSD for the past 3 days on the H4 timeframe

ignore the lines and stuff -- meaningful to me, but useless to others who have not spent 6 months in the "lines simulator".

notice at 6AM EDT the currency began its downside move AFTER hitting a topside resistannce a few hours AFTER the announcement --- what happened here is the currency was driven as high as they could before the shorts started screaming for their chance, which with the runup we see, was completely predictable if one realized news was coming out -- it predicted what effect the news would have, otherwise if the news was going to be good, the currency would not be run up BEFORE the release, but only AFTER the release !

its really a pretty simple game and i get really rilled with those who want to complicate it !

mp
 

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ignore the lines and stuff -- meaningful to me, but useless to others who have not spent 6 months in the "lines simulator".

...its really a pretty simple game and i get really rilled with those who want to complicate it !

Forgive me but judging by the look of your chart its YOU who is complicating things!

I've seen some crowded charts in my time but that really takes the biscuit.
 
Forgive me but judging by the look of your chart its YOU who is complicating things!

I've seen some crowded charts in my time but that really takes the biscuit.
======================================================================

thnx, but what is complicated to one is anothers rather nice profits --- and i posted the simplest ones --- wanna see what I REALLY look at during the day ??

now heres the other shorter timeframe chart

30 min timeframe --- notice the steady uptrend for two days and the BIG OLE JUMP when news was announced FOLLOWED by the downside move ?? the jump started one hour before the news and continued, then giving way to the SHORTS an hour or so later, which was the direction we all knew it would go in anyway, once we saw the price moving up
mp
 

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Grim,

If that is a technique you are interested in developing for your own trading, I can suggest the following tool. It's an oldie but a goodie;

Spirograph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seriously though, I don't think the above example shows anything. If the indicators you use aren't necessary to reach your conclusion from the chart, please remove them. The simple fact of the matter is that most will be unable to determine anything at all from your example, it is practically illegible.

You have stated that there is a way to deduce the behaviour of institutions exhibiting the "pump and dump" scenario you describe. I am not at odds with your view on what real money does before a release; but I disagree that you have shown it is possible to deduce this from your example.

Even then, just pointing to the price and saying "look - what I said has happened has happened" doesn't add any credibility to your claims. Please post a simple price chart, sans indicators, and talk us through it.
 
Trade ideas

Five markets to watch for opportunities. All markets are daily TF.

1. Natural Gas: Pin bar at a possible triple top. If going short, remember your PLAN. Be aware of the "problem areas". First potential support is the ascending TL .

2. Gbp/Jpy: Pin bar but no significant level on this TF to support it. Be aware that there could be an excellent play on a potential break of the level just overhead where you have confluence in the form of an S/R pivot and a major descending TL.

3. Usd/Cad: The market is rangebound right now but for how long? On the upside we have resistance in the form of a key S/R pivot. First potential support for price is the ascending TL

4. Gbp/Usd: Price is at an important level for Cable. Right now it is struggling to stay above a key S/R pivot. If that goes, the first major support on the charts doesn't come in for over 300 pips.

5. General Motors: I suggested a sharp move for GM was imminent back when we were trading at the higher of the two S/R pivots on this chart. Price has since come off around $9. But where next? Several areas are coming together to suggest a violent move is about to occur. This theory is supported by the technical setup of the indices which indicate a sharp move one way is very close at hand.
 

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good post td lol my hair stood on end when I looked at that chart

mp

Two really good posts imho with some real value tucked in there for those that really watch price action

Why the chart mp, whats that all about ?

If you no to the pip where its going you don"t need anything do you, is that just to baffle everyone :)

my ftse 4hr bar stopped like it had breaks on it as per ftse swing thread posts of possible low and spike down

I would not have been able to see sh.t with that lot on :)

good trading all

END OFF
 
Grim,

If that is a technique you are interested in developing for your own trading, I can suggest the following tool. It's an oldie but a goodie;

Spirograph - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seriously though, I don't think the above example shows anything. If the indicators you use aren't necessary to reach your conclusion from the chart, please remove them. The simple fact of the matter is that most will be unable to determine anything at all from your example, it is practically illegible.

You have stated that there is a way to deduce the behaviour of institutions exhibiting the "pump and dump" scenario you describe. I am not at odds with your view on what real money does before a release; but I disagree that you have shown it is possible to deduce this from your example.

Even then, just pointing to the price and saying "look - what I said has happened has happened" doesn't add any credibility to your claims. Please post a simple price chart, sans indicators, and talk us through it.
========================================================

considering i have stated EXACTLY the same thing, for months now, and every time there is news the scenerio plays out, I would imagine people should be seeing it for themselves at this point --- were only speaking of a price going up or down and not some amazing phenomenon that only my ferret can see.

do this, as i say about everything i talk about --- WATCH your charts before the next news release and see if what i say is true. If you dont accept my charts, theres little i can do about it except to have you look at your own --- if you opened your own MT4 charts on todays action including the london session, youll see the same thing without all my "stuff" --- i would imagine you can do that simply enough !

i have to look at my thoughts about "pump and dump" because while there is no "pump" per se, one could certainly consider the rapidly rising upside move to be just that --- i think were just saying the same thing with differing words, thats all !

as i ALWAYS say --- u dont have to believe a word i say, but if you simply look at your charts, with my words on the back burner, you will suddently SEE something you may never have seen before, and SEEING is something i was extremely well paid to do for 30 some odd years, so i might just "see" something you dont !

but thats the way we right brained peoples are !

WE SEE !

LOL

mp
 
good post td lol my hair stood on end when I looked at that chart

mp

If you no to the pip where its going you don"t need anything do you, is that just to baffle everyone :)

my ftse 4hr bar stopped like it had breaks on it as per ftse swing thread posts of possible low and spike down

I would not have been able to see sh.t with that lot on :)

good trading all

END OFF

I use two charting services and these are my favs --- the chart was in answer to a request for a chart showing what i was talking about --- the chart, if one just ignores the lines, clearly shows the price action and the price action was ALL i was speaking of

whats so hard about seeing the price go up, and then go down ?

and MAYBE, just MAYBE, all that complicated stuff is what allows me to prophesize where things are going, and maybe all that you peeps DONT HAVE leaves you just guessing !
fortunately EURUSD has been a sweetie today -- and she doesnt give a hoot about what kind of charts i use to follow her actions !

mp
 
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