So if you get to be consistently profitable, what next?

[Arbu]

I've been trading a £30K account for six months and am about £1K up over about 100 trades. That's nice but it doesn't make much of a difference as you can imagine. How can I start to scale it up:

a) keep trading my own funds but scaling it up very very slowly;
b) invite family to invest with me;
c) apply for jobs: or
d) do a trading course such as with Amplify, or the CFA exams, and then apply for jobs.

Re c) and d) I'm in my late 40s so perhaps a new career is not realistic anyway. I certainly wouldn't want to do anything with crazy hours.

Thanks.

 

[tomorton]

Yes, get a job and trade long-term.

Don't bring the family in, unless its to fund your training: but be very very selective what course you do.

 

[Arbu]

Yes, get a job and trade long-term.

Don't bring the family in, unless its to fund your training: but be very very selective what course you do.

Thanks. There seem to some real charlatans out there. But Amplify seem to be very genuine from what I've seen.

Do you think employers will pay attention if I just apply with a copy of my trading statements, or are they looking for more commitment in the nature of having done some formal studying?

 

[tomorton]

I've no idea what an employer looks for if they need a trader. I thought you were talking about an unrelated job. Maybe something you're actually good at.

 

[Arbu]

I've no idea what an employer looks for if they need a trader. I thought you were talking about an unrelated job. Maybe something you're actually good at.

No, I can't get a job. I think I'm over-educated and it intimidates people. So I need an environment without a big hierarchy - where people won't be worried about being shown up.

 

[Quantt]

I've been trading a £30K account for six months and am about £1K up over about 100 trades. That's nice but it doesn't make much of a difference as you can imagine. How can I start to scale it up:

a) keep trading my own funds but scaling it up very very slowly;
b) invite family to invest with me;
c) apply for jobs: or
d) do a trading course such as with Amplify, or the CFA exams, and then apply for jobs.

Re c) and d) I'm in my late 40s so perhaps a new career is not realistic anyway. I certainly wouldn't want to do anything with crazy hours.

Thanks.

You are making about 6.5 percent return per year, so frankly I would just continue as a hobby and put as much money into it as possible without getting loans, investors, etc and just let it compound for retirement...

 

[Big_P]

No, I can't get a job. I think I'm over-educated and it intimidates people. So I need an environment without a big hierarchy - where people won't be worried about being shown up.

Trust me, over-educated people don't intimidate others.

I work in an industry where the over-educated often (but not always) have zero personality, zero people skills and only a sense of entitlement that gets them absolutely nowhere.

 

[neil]

On the other hand.......

Trust me, over-educated people don't intimidate others.

I work in an industry where the over-educated often (but not always) have zero personality, zero people skills and only a sense of entitlement that gets them absolutely nowhere.

Or they think they are over educated and thus superior to those with whom they work. But, locked within their own little universe of superiority, they fail to recognize that they are regarded, by the psychologist, as "Narcissistic."
Not forgetting that an educated person could be registering somewhere on the "Autistic" spectrum whereby an educated ( or not so educated) person could dislike working with other people.

 

[Arbu]

Trust me, over-educated people don't intimidate others.

I work in an industry where the over-educated often (but not always) have zero personality, zero people skills and only a sense of entitlement that gets them absolutely nowhere.

Well I could list the following examples:

- having an employer respond after an interview that they weren't going to take things any further because I was "too pleasant" and refusing to provide any explanation of what they meant by that

- having an employer not respond to me for four months after an interview and then writing back saying "Your details are very impressive but unfortunately we don't have any positions suitable for someone of your particular areas of experience" (when they most certainly did).

- getting very positive feedback from an interview and being told that the company would definitely be wanting to meet me again, only to never be able to get any further communication from them

- being told by an employer (not in connection with a job interview) "the brighter graduates are the more difficult they are"

-being asked at an interview "There's a lot of grunt work in this job, are you sure it's suitable for someone of your intellect?"

Those don't seem to me like examples of the faults that you describe but of people simply being uncomfortable with employing bright (or very bright?) people.

 

[Dowser]

No, I can't get a job. I think I'm over-educated and it intimidates people. So I need an environment without a big hierarchy - where people won't be worried about being shown up.

There's no such thing as over-educated, unless you are selling yourself short, but why do that? My cousin for example, has a Degree from Cambridge, a PhD from Oxford and an MBA from Manchester. He's now a VP at a bank in New York. Sounds to me like you're nursing a fragile ego...

 

[Big_P]

Well I could list the following examples:

- having an employer respond after an interview that they weren't going to take things any further because I was "too pleasant" and refusing to provide any explanation of what they meant by that

- having an employer not respond to me for four months after an interview and then writing back saying "Your details are very impressive but unfortunately we don't have any positions suitable for someone of your particular areas of experience" (when they most certainly did).

- getting very positive feedback from an interview and being told that the company would definitely be wanting to meet me again, only to never be able to get any further communication from them

- being told by an employer (not in connection with a job interview) "the brighter graduates are the more difficult they are"

-being asked at an interview "There's a lot of grunt work in this job, are you sure it's suitable for someone of your intellect?"

Those don't seem to me like examples of the faults that you describe but of people simply being uncomfortable with employing bright (or very bright?) people.

It's very difficult to comment as it's unclear whether you haven't had any success because you are over-educated. Or your interviewers have other reasons that they are unwilling to divulge.

I was simply pointing out that over-educated people don't "intimidate" other people in the workplace.

I work in shipping. The best broker I know is a Cambridge graduate with a 1st. The equal best is a guy expelled from school and doesn't have an O-Level to his name. They both earn £1m+ a year.

I respect them both equally and am not intimidated by the Cambridge Grad.

 

[Traderjohnsblog]

Thanks. There seem to some real charlatans out there. But Amplify seem to be very genuine from what I've seen.

Do you think employers will pay attention if I just apply with a copy of my trading statements, or are they looking for more commitment in the nature of having done some formal studying?

I was once on the other side of the desk. I hired traders. We first thought that we wanted experienced traders with a proven track record. We found that experienced traders were set in thier ways and almost all of them had some aspect of thier trading strategy that found problematic. Surprisingly, we found the most effective way was to train our own traders from the ground up. That way they traded the way we wanted.

I highly reccomend getting a job. Preferably a non trading job. No need to have all of your eggs in one basket. Have you considered consulting? It served me well at one point in my life and I really did enjoy it.

 

[neil]

Well I could list the following examples:

- having an employer respond after an interview that they weren't going to take things any further because I was "too pleasant" and refusing to provide any explanation of what they meant by that

- having an employer not respond to me for four months after an interview and then writing back saying "Your details are very impressive but unfortunately we don't have any positions suitable for someone of your particular areas of experience" (when they most certainly did).

- getting very positive feedback from an interview and being told that the company would definitely be wanting to meet me again, only to never be able to get any further communication from them

- being told by an employer (not in connection with a job interview) "the brighter graduates are the more difficult they are"

-being asked at an interview "There's a lot of grunt work in this job, are you sure it's suitable for someone of your intellect?"

Those don't seem to me like examples of the faults that you describe but of people simply being uncomfortable with employing bright (or very bright?) people.

ARBU -it could be you. You might have faults which you are unaware of or ignore. Have you considered that the employer might be right ( for reasons other than those you put forward) and that you might be wrong ?

 

[Arbu]

It's very difficult to comment as it's unclear whether you haven't had any success because you are over-educated. Or your interviewers have other reasons that they are unwilling to divulge.

I was simply pointing out that over-educated people don't "intimidate" other people in the workplace.

I work in shipping. The best broker I know is a Cambridge graduate with a 1st. The equal best is a guy expelled from school and doesn't have an O-Level to his name. They both earn £1m+ a year.

I respect them both equally and am not intimidated by the Cambridge Grad.

Yes, it is very hard to know what the real reason is. But reactions from employers have been weird and if there's a valid reason I would expect to be being told rather than hitting what often seems like a wall of silence. I don't have a better explanation than that I intimidate people.

Anyway when I say I can't get a job, no doubt I could try harder than I do. I probably apply for 10-20 jobs every year but nothing ever comes of it. Some years ago I had a session of doing nothing but applying for jobs for two weeks but still no luck. Also, to be honest, it seems quite feasible to live without a regular income, and the freedom of being able to do what I want is very pleasant.

 

[neil]

Yes, it is very hard to know what the real reason is. But reactions from employers have been weird and if there's a valid reason I would expect to be being told rather than hitting what often seems like a wall of silence. I don't have a better explanation than that I intimidate people.

Anyway when I say I can't get a job, no doubt I could try harder than I do. I probably apply for 10-20 jobs every year but nothing ever comes of it. Some years ago I had a session of doing nothing but applying for jobs for two weeks but still no luck. Also, to be honest, it seems quite feasible to live without a regular income, and the freedom of being able to do what I want is very pleasant.

Why not seek professional help -psychologist for example -to explore why you, who believes you are a highly educated individual but unattractive to prospective employers, cannot secure a job suitable to your university qualifications.
Employers are not intimidated since they are in business to make a profit. If you have the skills they will employ you. So seek help from a professional to discover the real reasons employers turn down the chance to employ the services of a highly qualified individual who would fulfill a need within their company. Forget trading full time -you have to be in the top 5% of traders ( some with barely an "O" level to their name) to achieve that. So look within rather tham push blame outwards.

 

[Arbu]

ARBU -it could be you. You might have faults which you are unaware of or ignore. Have you considered that the employer might be right ( for reasons other than those you put forward) and that you might be wrong ?

Of course. But I can't figure out what.

 

[neil]

Of course. But I can't figure out what.

That's why I said, "seek help."
A psychologist would help you discover why you feel you are not attractive to employers. And help you to overcome any faults within your character or mental outlook that employers found unattractive.

 

[Arbu]

Have you considered consulting? It served me well at one point in my life and I really did enjoy it.

Funnily enough that's what I wanted to do after university - Bain & Co, McKinsey's etc. Thought it looked really interesting. But they all turned me down. Someone said that they liked slightly older graduates who would have more gravitas. I was only 20 when I left Cambridge so I decided to go off travelling for a year and get a bit older.

 

[Traderjohnsblog]

I was youngish when I started. I found a problem in my industry and came up with a solution. I then sold the solution on my own to companies that had the problem. I probably came off as the young whiz kid. I made many phone calls, sent many emails and made many friends along the way.

 

[Dowser]

That's why I said, "seek help."
A psychologist would help you discover why you feel you are not attractive to employers. And help you to overcome any faults within your character or mental outlook that employers found unattractive.

I'd add to this and say: Confide in a close friend and ask them to be honest with you as to why they think you might be struggling finding employment.