Winning trader's mind

oildaytrader

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Hi

Not that most here would know much about what I ask, but nevertheless I enquire.

What is the frame of mind of a winning trader, what is he thinking when he puts on a trade?Is he prepared for a failed set up and failed t/a?Is he prepared ready to deal with losses?Has he got a game plan on exits , losses and profit targets?What is going on in his mind?

Is there a good book to read ?
 
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Probably thinking about what's for dinner or something.
 
How do you guys avoid screwing up?

Throughout the entire trading cycle, from entry to exit, the day trader is subject to a range of emotions, most of which are a natural consequence of the way in which our brains are "wired". But trading based on emotion leads to undesirable consequences and must be avoided.

If you lose , do you put on revenge trades , or lose your bottle and screw up with bad trades?

http://www.daytradingforbeginner.com/psych.htm
 
I have thought a lot about the subject of general psychology and that that is specific to trading, and have read and continue to read widely on the subject. I am convinced that it is the execution of the plan that seperates the also rans from the average - good traders, and those from the great traders. Ie you may have a proven trading edge , but do you have the psychological factors to allow you to impliment that trading plan with impunity, thereby maximising the gain available from it's implimentation ?

A tennis coach friend of mine once told me that the top 20 male tennis players in the world are roughly equal in respect of technical skills of the game, but it is the psychology that seperates the best from the also-rans. Similarly when you look at a top premiership football team like Man Utd, they can win games when they play badly. The 'winners' mindset is in part learned but also developed and obviously enhanced and strengthened by the repetition of winning....and as such it becomes a virtuous cycle.

As far as trading is concerned, my experience is that one has to have a trading plan and then seek to put that plan into action as closely as it is possible to do. Over the years I have sought to make my trading edge as rule based as possible so that at the point of decision there is no decision to make...ie It does satisfy the rules, or it does not - Ie I do enter the market, or I do not....In reality this for me was not as easy as it seems and to overcome the variables involved and associated with my own trading edge I settled on a rating of the repeating set-ups that make up my trading edge into a. Maximum Confidence, b. A rated, and c. B+ rated.

This ratings decison is a reflection of the technical confluence that makes up the set-up. What that did for me was that I could then recognise in realtime wether the set-up that was developing was worth the risk of trading it, and if so - what risk. So, when I see a Max Confidence, A or B+ rated set-up developing I have already made the decision, that if price action behaves accordingly (the final piece of the set-up to develop and give a trigger for entry, [or not]) I am going to trade the set-up and I also know at what risk, beacuse then it is my trading edge, and as such is part of my trading plan. Now beacuse I also know the historical strike rate (winning trades as a % of total trades,) of each set-up that makes up my trading edge that is designated as a Max Conf, A or B+ rated set-up I also know the historical liklehood of success as well as the likely longest consecutive losing run of each such set-up, across any extended sample of times it develops. This to me is crucial, beacuse, not only have I removed the fear of entry from not having a plan (trading edge) but I have also calculated in advance my risk depending on the confidence of the set-up as given by the rating as well as knowing in advance that historical strike rate and historical liklehood of successfailure of the given set-up across any sample of times it develops. In other words, in the absence of not being able to predict future price discovery, I have as much information as it is possible to have upon which to make a trading decision, and in so doing I have in theory greatly removed the negative psychological elements that may impede my ability to gain from the trading edge over any given sample. What enhances this ability is simple: Repetition, the act of doing this over and over again, day in and day out, week in and week out etc...

Returning to the original question (s) posed by the OP, Repetition is the key to developing a winning mindset, ie repeating the implimentation of your trading edge by knowing when it sets-up and the liklehood of it's success. Conversely the repetition of rejecting set-ups that are not Max Conf, A or B+ ratepart of the trading plan is crucial in the whole process of repetition. In the constant repetition of both trading set-ups that do fit the trading plan and rejecting those that do not I am effectively developing a mechanical approach to the trading environment that faces me every day, and this is the essence of a winning mindset.


Just one trader's opinion.

G/L
 
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How do you guys avoid screwing up?

Throughout the entire trading cycle, from entry to exit, the day trader is subject to a range of emotions, most of which are a natural consequence of the way in which our brains are "wired". But trading based on emotion leads to undesirable consequences and must be avoided.

If you lose , do you put on revenge trades , or lose your bottle and screw up with bad trades?

http://www.daytradingforbeginner.com/psych.htm

The well known book about Jesse Livermore - Reminiscences of a Stock Operator puts it well in explaining that the natural human emotion when things are going badly is to hope (indeed some turnm to divine inspiration and Pray] and the natural Human emotiion when things are going well is to fear that they will not continue to do so...this is how the human brain is wired. Why trading is so hard is that we must train our brains to do the opposite and in a trading analogy when a trade is going against us instead of hoping it might turn around, we must instead fear it will not, and cut the loss quickly. When a trade is in profit we must not fear that it will not continue, but hope that it will and maximise the gain...This is what lies behind the cut your losers/let the winners run trueism we have all oft heard.

As the OP says above, trading on emotion is to be avoided and this can be best accomplished with a plan and the constant implimentation of that plan until you get it right (repetition.) By turninng hope and fear on their heads, the other demons of greed and revenge which will beset you along the way (the battle is never won) will become confused and disorientated and therefore lose their power. The regime of repetition that you establish will attract furthjer allies of patience and discipline, and then the war can be won, if not every battle.

G/L
 
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Hi

Not that most here would know much about what I ask, but nevertheless I enquire.

What is the frame of mind of a winning trader, what is he thinking when he puts on a trade?Is he prepared for a failed set up and failed t/a?Is he prepared ready to deal with losses?Has he got a game plan on exits , losses and profit targets?What is going on in his mind?

Is there a good book to read ?


The straight answer would be to read Mark Douglas: The Disciplined Trader and Trading In The Zone, say nothing about trades but everythng about trading.
 
Try Trading in the Zone - Mark Douglas. That deals with all the psych stuff - treating each trade as if it has as much chance of losing as any other, dealing in probabilities, etc.
Great book
 
I like your repitition analogy; "practice makes permanent". is a phrase I often used in footy coaching...;)
 
My frame of mind has evolved over time.
When I first opened my demo account with Refco (Remember them?) in July 2004. I was excited. They were showing me how to execute a trade, close it, and show me how the profits work. I was pretty excited.
Looking back it, one of the worse things that ever happened to me was growing that demo from 50K to 75K in 2 weeks. I had the impression that trading was supposed to be that easy all the time.
I soon found out different, adn then the cloud busted, and I came back down to Earth. Afterwards, it was all work for the next 6 months, just in developing any kind of a plan to trade by. Finally, I got up the nerve to open a trading account, live. I was a ball of nerves everytime I executed a trade. Much uncertainty flooded my mind. After awhile, I became on of the statistics and bankrupted my account. So....it was back to the drawing board.
Finally, by May 2005 things started falling i place. I started trading profitably, but remember still being nervous, for the most part. I also remember, every once in awhile, wanting to get back at the markets when I made a losing trade. That was also no good, as it got me in more trouble.
By 2007, there were a couple of missing links I needed and found for my methodology, and that was the ichimoku cloud and my proprietary set of S&R's. They would form, once and for all, my winning system.
I will never say I have arrived, but I have said many times, "I have ice in my veins." I am at that point of being unaffected by the entrance of a trade or exiting a trade. Experience has built confidence in what I do. My wife can never tell what kind of a day I had in trading. It is also something we don't discuss. She knows I must be making money. This is the only job I have, and Tucker has wonderful dog treats, and we are free to do whatever we want to do.
When I got to the emotional mindset of being totally unaffected by my trades, the execution, and the exiting, and the amount of + or - pips, it was then I knew I became an excellent trader. I may have great confidence that borders on an over-sized ego, but I also realize the markets are always there to humble me and bring me back down anytime I need it. This keeps me level, and always focused. There is never a time to take anything for granted. Yesterday's sunshine will not suffice for today. The joys and satisfaction of yesterday belongs there. Today, is a new day, just like tomorrow will be. A reminder of those beginnings I try to remind myself of what could happen if I''m not careful. Confidence does not necessarily translate into pips. Winning trades do, adn that is the full essence of my job.
As far as books are concerned, I've read a few, but they still did not make me as a trader. It has to happen within myself then be worked to its equivalent in its execution. I'd rather have what I do in the heart more than the head. The deeper it goes, the harder it is to mine it away.
 
Try Trading in the Zone - Mark Douglas. That deals with all the psych stuff - treating each trade as if it has as much chance of losing as any other, dealing in probabilities, etc.
Great book

I figured out a hedged entry method which treats each entry as fifty fifty,so this eliminates being wrong 50% of the time. it helps the mind and works in ranging markets.I only have to deal with exits and trade management, it works and the system has 20 + % edge before I begin.In a trending market I use a trend based version of this method.

I don't need to buy these books to tell me what I already know, but thanks I may read them if I get them free.
 
I figured out a hedged entry method which treats each entry as fifty fifty,so this eliminates being wrong 50% of the time. it helps the mind and works in ranging markets.I only have to deal with exits and trade management, it works and the system has 20 + % edge before I begin.In a trending market I use a trend based version of this method.

I don't need to buy these books to tell me what I already know, but thanks I may read them if I get them free.

you just get more and more ridiculous. "hedged entry"? fck me....
 
you just get more and more ridiculous. "hedged entry"? fck me....


You have to manage your hedged trades to your advantage, 50 % of the time the entries and exits will fail , 50 % of the time they may work.In price action price reverts to previous high or low , price does not fly in one direction every time Gooseman takes on a directional trade.

I always have my biases on direction and use it in managing the hedged trades.
 
That's how I feel about it-- referring to your books. WE have a different methodology for trading.


I figured out a hedged entry method which treats each entry as fifty fifty,so this eliminates being wrong 50% of the time. it helps the mind and works in ranging markets.I only have to deal with exits and trade management, it works and the system has 20 + % edge before I begin.In a trending market I use a trend based version of this method.

I don't need to buy these books to tell me what I already know, but thanks I may read them if I get them free.
 
I am usually bored and thinking of something else, it's all a bit routine these days. An individual trade is inconsequential, it'll either win or lose. It's the figures at the end of the month that count, I'm not going to worry over a single trade that goes wrong.
 
I also find that regular excercise, mashed swede and a complete avoidance of midget gems has helped me develop a 'winning mindset.'







G/L
 
I thought thought a lot about the subject of general psychology and that that is specific to trading, and have read and continue to read widely on the subject. I am convincedc that it is the execution of the plan that seperates the also rans from the average - good traders from the great traders. Ie you may have a proven trading edge , but do you have the psychological factors to allow you to impliment that trading plan with impunity ?

A tennis coach friend of mine once told me that the top 20 male tennis players in the world are roughly equal in respect of technical skills of the game, but it is the psychology that seperates the best from the also-rans. Similarly when you look at a top premiership football team like Man Utd, they can win games when they play badly. The 'winners' mindset is in part learned but also developed and obviously enhanced and strengthened by the repetition of winning....and as such it becomes a virtuous cycle.

As far as trading is concerned, my experience is that one has to have a trading plan and then seek to put that plan into action as closely as it is possible to do. Over the years I have sought to make my trading edge as rule based as possible so that at the point of decision there is no decision to make...ie It does satisfy the rules, or it does not - Ie I do enter the market, or I do not....In reality this for me was not as easy as it seems and to overcome the variables involved and associated with my own trading edge I settled on a grading of the repeating set-ups that make up my trading edge into a. Maximum Confidence, b. A rated, and c. B+ rated.

This grading decison was a reflection of the technical confluence of the set-up. What that did for me was that I could then recognise in realtime whether the set-up that was developing was worth the risk and if so-what risk. So, when I see a Max Confidence, A or B+ rated set-up developing I have already made the decision, that if price action behaves accordingly (the final piece of the set-up to develop and possibly give a trigger for entry) I am going to trade the set-up and I also know at what risk. Now beacuse I also know the historical strike rate (winning trades as a % of total trades,) of each set-up designated as a Max Conf, A or B+ rated set-up I also know the historical likelehood of success as well as the likely longest consecutive losing run of each such set-up. This to me is crucial, beacuse, not only have a removed the fear of entry from not having a plan (trading edge) but I have also graded my risk depending on the confidence of the set-up as given by the rating as well as knowing in advance the historical strike rate and historical likelehood of failure. In other words, in the absence of not being able to predict future price discovery, I have as much information as it is possible to have upon which to make a trading decision, and in so doing I have in theory greatly removed the negative psychological elements that may impede my ability to gain from the trading edge over any given sample. What enhances this ability is simple: Repetition, the act of doing this over and over again, day in and day out, week in and week out etc...

Returning to the original question (s) posed by the OP, Repetition is the key to developing a winning mindset, ie repeating the implimentation of your trading edge by knowing when it sets-up and the liklehood of it's success. Conversely the repetition of rejecting set-ups that are not Max Conf, A or B+ rated is crucial in the whole process of repetition. In the constant repetition of both trading set-ups that do fit the trading plan and rejecting those that do not I am effectively developing a mechanical approach to the trading environment that faces me every day and this is the essence of a winning mindset. You simply have to remove as much room for human discretion that exists as is possible.



Just one trader's opinion.

G/L


Excellent post bbmac - extremely well written.
This is the absolute essence of trading in my opinion.
 
I am thinking Michael Dougals - Trading in the Zone. Gives you on a theoretical basis the most important aspects of trading and psychology. However, your own psychological development can only come from yourself and your own change (in case you are a losing trader.) So the book can merely be a first start to changing your mindset. You actually have to find out yourself what keeps you from following your edge and remaining relaxed when a trade goes against you or whatever. Because that's different things for every trader.
 
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