Why isn't someone providing mortgages to successful traders

[Strugglingtrader]

Hello everyone.
Struggling trader here, still struggling. I've now had 90 straight profitable trading days with one bad day that still has me vomiting.

Anyways, any ideas on how I could get a mortgage I can show £500-1k a day and will probably lift that to £2-5k over and after the summer.

I can deposit 25-40%, but can't seem to find someone who is prepared to offer a trader/spread better a mortgage.

Any guidance would be appreciated and I could also pay if anyone can help sort this headache out.

Cheers.
Strugglingtrader

 

[counter_violent]

Hello everyone.
Struggling trader here, still struggling. I've now had 90 straight profitable trading days with one bad day that still has me vomiting.

Anyways, any ideas on how I could get a mortgage I can show £500-1k a day and will probably lift that to £2-5k over and after the summer.

I can deposit 25-40%, but can't seem to find someone who is prepared to offer a trader/spread better a mortgage.

Any guidance would be appreciated and I could also pay if anyone can help sort this headache out.

Cheers.
Strugglingtrader

If you can make 500 to 1k a day, then you don't need a mortgage. Just think about this. If you do a full 12 months at those gains, you can outright purchase a modest 250k property.

 

[Forexmospherian]

Hello everyone.
Struggling trader here, still struggling. I've now had 90 straight profitable trading days with one bad day that still has me vomiting.

Anyways, any ideas on how I could get a mortgage I can show £500-1k a day and will probably lift that to £2-5k over and after the summer.

I can deposit 25-40%, but can't seem to find someone who is prepared to offer a trader/spread better a mortgage.

Any guidance would be appreciated and I could also pay if anyone can help sort this headache out.

Cheers.
Strugglingtrader

Hi ST

I know in the old days - ie pre 2007 /8 and the recession - you could get self certified mortgages with a 20% + deposit with just one year of accounts - that's if they were good. If you had 3 yrs plus - signed off by an accountant - even better.

From what I gather nowadays - its a different ballgame and you might need 2 years plus of certified results showing good profits backed up by Bank accounts.

Forget the Banks - they are normally a waste of time - you need a specialist fund dealing more with self employed people - might cost you slightly more - although it gets cheaper the larger % you can stump up yourself .

Just 3 months or 6 months history will not be enough nowadays - and being in such a risky occupation - lenders will want to see consistency - ie majority of the time winning days - and then not the odd day or week - when you wipe off the last weeks profits.

Nothing is guaranteed in life - you can have a great job - fully employed with a company for 10 years plus etc - and then 3 months after you get a mortgage - the company goes bust and you made redundant. Ideally your partner need to be in a regular employed work - that will help

GL


Regards


F

 

[alexaherself]

If you live in the UK, you'll fairly easily be able to get a buy-to-let mortgage without certified proof of income, through a mortgage broker who specialises in buy-to-let. For about £40 you can buy a ready-made limited company with nominee directors (just google "limited company formation agents UK" to find a list of London accountants offering this service), which can be the "tenant". You'll need a deposit of 25-30% of the purchase price, and the proposed monthly rent will need to be about 125% of the monthly mortgage repayment, with an independent "potential rental valuation" to verify that. The rest should be relatively plain sailing and you'll own the property, perfectly legally, in your own name, and can live in it effectively as your own tenant. Many people with good incomes (which they're unable, for whatever reason, acceptably/conventionally to document) have successfully done this. Good luck.

 

[tar]

Hello everyone.
Struggling trader here, still struggling. I've now had 90 straight profitable trading days with one bad day that still has me vomiting.

Anyways, any ideas on how I could get a mortgage I can show £500-1k a day and will probably lift that to £2-5k over and after the summer.

I can deposit 25-40%, but can't seem to find someone who is prepared to offer a trader/spread better a mortgage.

Any guidance would be appreciated and I could also pay if anyone can help sort this headache out.

Cheers.
Strugglingtrader

How are they going to determine if a trader is successful or not ? Making 1K a day doesn't mean you are successful , it just means you are currently making money but the future is another story . Maybe you are averaging down - playing martingale - or maybe you are a buy and hold guy and you are currently just enjoying the bull market . Are they for example going to look at statements and say hey this guy uses a SL lets give him mortgage ?!

 

[alexaherself]

How are they going to determine if a trader is successful or not ?

They don't need to, if you do it as described just above. They don't even need to know that you're a trader, because your occupation isn't really relevant to them. Security of rental income is their primary concern.

 

[tar]

They don't need to, if you do it as described just above. They don't even need to know that you're a trader, because your occupation isn't really relevant to them. Security of rental income is their primary concern.

Yes i understand , just replying to the "mortgage for successful traders" issue ...

 

[tar]

Just noticed , you're a struggling trader and you make 1k daily !

 

[Strugglingtrader]

If you can make 500 to 1k a day, then you don't need a mortgage. Just think about this. If you do a full 12 months at those gains, you can outright purchase a modest 250k property.

Many thanks for your reply, in my neck of the woods unfortunately that won't get you anything. I can move away from friends and family but what would be the point of that.

 

[Strugglingtrader]

If you live in the UK, you'll fairly easily be able to get a buy-to-let mortgage without certified proof of income, through a mortgage broker who specialises in buy-to-let. For about £40 you can buy a ready-made limited company with nominee directors (just google "limited company formation agents UK" to find a list of London accountants offering this service), which can be the "tenant". You'll need a deposit of 25-30% of the purchase price, and the proposed monthly rent will need to be about 125% of the monthly mortgage repayment, with an independent "potential rental valuation" to verify that. The rest should be relatively plain sailing and you'll own the property, perfectly legally, in your own name, and can live in it effectively as your own tenant. Many people with good incomes (which they're unable, for whatever reason, acceptably/conventionally to document) have successfully done this. Good luck.

Many thanks for replying.
Unfortunately, you can't live in your buy to let property. I rather stay on the straight and narrow, have a difficult enough career without additional worries.

 

[Strugglingtrader]

Just noticed , you're a struggling trader and you make 1k daily !

Thanks Tar, I'm struggling because the guys I used to trade with used to clock $1m a month. I am struggling to reach that target, at 500-1k it is just a living, but to be a successful trader versus a struggling trader I think you need to be operating at $1m a month. Which I have seen being done consistently by a 19 year old kid believe it or not.

 

[itspossible]

 

[tar]

Thanks Tar, I'm struggling because the guys I used to trade with used to clock $1m a month. I am struggling to reach that target, at 500-1k it is just a living, but to be a successful trader versus a struggling trader I think you need to be operating at $1m a month. Which I have seen being done consistently by a 19 year old kid believe it or not.

Thats half the story .. how big his account whats his max dd what he trades ... etc . And if he is 19 then he wasnt trading long which brings us to consistency issues ...

 

[Strugglingtrader]

Thats half the story .. how big his account whats his max dd what he trades ... etc . And if he is 19 then he wasnt trading long which brings us to consistency issues ...

Slightly going off tangent here, but he was 19 when he joined the firm and did this at the prop firm for at least 3 years and two infront of me.

Not sure what the other half is other than he really lived it up and had a breakdown.

Anyways, it can be done, I'm just struggling not to blow up, but aiming high.
Take care.
ST

 

[Strugglingtrader]

Hi ST

I know in the old days - ie pre 2007 /8 and the recession - you could get self certified mortgages with a 20% + deposit with just one year of accounts - that's if they were good. If you had 3 yrs plus - signed off by an accountant - even better.

From what I gather nowadays - its a different ballgame and you might need 2 years plus of certified results showing good profits backed up by Bank accounts.

Forget the Banks - they are normally a waste of time - you need a specialist fund dealing more with self employed people - might cost you slightly more - although it gets cheaper the larger % you can stump up yourself .

Just 3 months or 6 months history will not be enough nowadays - and being in such a risky occupation - lenders will want to see consistency - ie majority of the time winning days - and then not the odd day or week - when you wipe off the last weeks profits.

Nothing is guaranteed in life - you can have a great job - fully employed with a company for 10 years plus etc - and then 3 months after you get a mortgage - the company goes bust and you made redundant. Ideally your partner need to be in a regular employed work - that will help

GL


Regards


F

Many thanks again F for replying.
Any specialist Fund you can recommend I can get in touch with, although I agree with you, my track record is way too short and tomorrow could always be the day of humility.

 

[DowJones]

Agony Aunt Replies...

Thanks Tar, I'm struggling because the guys I used to trade with used to clock $1m a month. I am struggling to reach that target, at 500-1k it is just a living, but to be a successful trader versus a struggling trader I think you need to be operating at $1m a month. Which I have seen being done consistently by a 19 year old kid believe it or not.

Dear Strugglingtrader,

I have read though your previous posts on T2W. Based on those, please allow me to assess your situation and offer some suggestions:

Assessment:
You claim in excess of 15-19 years experience in financial markets (across: sales, asset mgmt, hedge funds and prop firms, in the roles of: institutional trader, prop trader, day trader, quant analyst, investment manager, capital investor - to name but a few). Based on that wealth of experience you have chosen spread-betting...

You then claim ongoing returns of 50-100%+ pcm (600%-1200%+ pa) based on your £10k spread-bet account. However you are dis-satisfied with this, as your friends net £1 million pcm (£12 million pa); leaving you feeling somewhat inadequate.

Furthermore, you also have no idea whether you are liable for tax, and thus have participated in threads here to seek advice, leading you to the conclusion that leaving the country might offer you the best tax-avoidance scheme.

In summary, having lost the last of your many City jobs, you feel financially vulnerable, and somewhat of a piker when it comes to trading size.

Suggestions:
You state that you have no additional income aside from trading (but later forget this, stating you have £20k pa BTL income). You also highlight your relatively small trading account (but later forget this, stating that you have raised £400 million from one of the world's largest sovereign wealth funds).

I would suggest that your £20k income might pay the bills while you top up your spread-bet account with the £400 million. Assuming that the Chinese/UAE governments have rescinded you their offer of £0.4bn, I would remain unperturbed. A back-of-fag-packet calculation shows that compounding your £10k at present rates will allow you to be added to the UK Sunday Times Rich List (min £100 million net worth) within 3 years.

I would ask that when you reach this point, you inform me prior to placing your Dax spread-bets - only your bet-size will exceed the entire daily volume on Eurex and so I'd like to get my orders in first if that's ok with you.

I think you're going to fit in very well here at T2W.
Good luck.


Source Info:

I've been in an out of trading for the last 15 years, as a sales trader, hedge fund and a day trader at a US prop firm...for the last 15 years I've just been a sales guy...When I was let go at x-mas I had no where to go, so I started spread betting. It's going alright now and I'm wondering if I will have to pay tax if it keeps going well (£5-10k per month on total capital of £10k) or is it all just tax free?

I've actually been very successful as a quant analyst, day trader and most recently raising very large sums of money ($£400m from one of the largest swf)...I would be grateful for any guidance...Also if I were to move offshore to a tax free jurisdiction, wouldn't then all the profits I make from spread betting be tax free?

It is my only source of income...Just want to clarify that I'm a "Strugglingtrader"...I've had three tough trades in the last couple of months which I was able to "wiggle" my way out of but I am still "struggling" to manage the risk, hopefully I'll get there

I have been day dreaming sometimes that if things stay this way I would like to manage money as I have been in investment management since 1996, but I ended my dream by concluding that I can just manage my own money without the regulatory headaches. I don't feel a need to report to the tax authorities if it isn't required, I'm just wondering if an income of £20,000 a year from other sources (BTL) will be accepted by the tax authorities against an income of potentially £200k from spread trading?

 

[flipya4it]

Dear Strugglingtrader,

I have read though your previous posts on T2W. Based on those, please allow me to assess your situation and offer some suggestions:

Assessment:
You claim in excess of 15-19 years experience in financial markets (across: sales, asset mgmt, hedge funds and prop firms, in the roles of: institutional trader, prop trader, day trader, quant analyst, investment manager, capital investor - to name but a few). Based on that wealth of experience you have chosen spread-betting...

You then claim ongoing returns of 50-100%+ pcm (600%-1200%+ pa) based on your £10k spread-bet account. However you are dis-satisfied with this, as your friends net £1 million pcm (£12 million pa); leaving you feeling somewhat inadequate.

Furthermore, you also have no idea whether you are liable for tax, and thus have participated in threads here to seek advice, leading you to the conclusion that leaving the country might offer you the best tax-avoidance scheme.

In summary, having lost the last of your many City jobs, you feel financially vulnerable, and somewhat of a piker when it comes to trading size.

Suggestions:
You state that you have no additional income aside from trading (but later forget this, stating you have £20k pa BTL income). You also highlight your relatively small trading account (but later forget this, stating that you have raised £400 million from one of the world's largest sovereign wealth funds).

I would suggest that your £20k income might pay the bills while you top up your spread-bet account with the £400 million. Assuming that the Chinese/UAE governments have rescinded you their offer of £0.4bn, I would remain unperturbed. A back-of-fag-packet calculation shows that compounding your £10k at present rates will allow you to be added to the UK Sunday Times Rich List (min £100 million net worth) within 3 years.

I would ask that when you reach this point, you inform me prior to placing your Dax spread-bets - only your bet-size will exceed the entire daily volume on Eurex and so I'd like to get my orders in first if that's ok with you.

I think you're going to fit in very well here at T2W.
Good luck.


Source Info:

awesome! left me wanting more.please feel free to conduct future research and publish your findings.hahaha

 

[Strugglingtrader]

Dear Strugglingtrader,

I have read though your previous posts on T2W. Based on those, please allow me to assess your situation and offer some suggestions:

Assessment:
You claim in excess of 15-19 years experience in financial markets (across: sales, asset mgmt, hedge funds and prop firms, in the roles of: institutional trader, prop trader, day trader, quant analyst, investment manager, capital investor - to name but a few). Based on that wealth of experience you have chosen spread-betting...

You then claim ongoing returns of 50-100%+ pcm (600%-1200%+ pa) based on your £10k spread-bet account. However you are dis-satisfied with this, as your friends net £1 million pcm (£12 million pa); leaving you feeling somewhat inadequate.

Furthermore, you also have no idea whether you are liable for tax, and thus have participated in threads here to seek advice, leading you to the conclusion that leaving the country might offer you the best tax-avoidance scheme.

In summary, having lost the last of your many City jobs, you feel financially vulnerable, and somewhat of a piker when it comes to trading size.

Suggestions:
You state that you have no additional income aside from trading (but later forget this, stating you have £20k pa BTL income). You also highlight your relatively small trading account (but later forget this, stating that you have raised £400 million from one of the world's largest sovereign wealth funds).

I would suggest that your £20k income might pay the bills while you top up your spread-bet account with the £400 million. Assuming that the Chinese/UAE governments have rescinded you their offer of £0.4bn, I would remain unperturbed. A back-of-fag-packet calculation shows that compounding your £10k at present rates will allow you to be added to the UK Sunday Times Rich List (min £100 million net worth) within 3 years.

I would ask that when you reach this point, you inform me prior to placing your Dax spread-bets - only your bet-size will exceed the entire daily volume on Eurex and so I'd like to get my orders in first if that's ok with you.

I think you're going to fit in very well here at T2W.
Good luck.


Source Info:

Wow sir, that is indeed impressive and I find it a wee bit flattering. I had a tough day today nowhere close to hitting my 500-1k daily target.

Could I come back to you on a couple of points, not that I feel the need to, but it's just that you went through so much trouble.

1. As you pointed out I was let go very abruptly from my last position and the scum bag is holding on to my cut on the £400m transaction that I put together. This is quite typical of the city, it is not the first time this has happened to me and I'm done...hence spread bet with my own money rather than work for others and then get shafted when pay day comes.

2. I'm not compounding, I lifted the account size to £20k and over the summer am still hoping to go to £200k. I do indeed intend to take the payment from the £400m to put into this. I have no intentions of ever asking for anyone for money again. My friends and family are already asking for mirror trading accounts. I am not willing to entertain this, partly because the technology doesn't seem to exist for SB. I will be starting a thread with respect to SB mirror trading accounts. Please do guide me if you know otherwise.

3. The BTL income just goes towards paying off the debt!

4. I will never appear on any list ever, as I already give 20% of everything I make to charity and a firm believer in serving others.

5. I will indeed post my size & trade when it gets interesting, the largest I have been into the market with to date is £2750 pounds per point and was royaly burnt.

Thank you again for your time and consideration. Please do let me know if you can offer any guidance on the points raised.
Cheers.
ST

 

[Lightning McQueen]

the technology doesn't seem to exist for SB. I will be starting a thread with respect to SB mirror trading accounts.

you could try looking into gkfx webtrader, that's a sirix platform which I believe includes a copy trader function. their mt4 platform is sb, so the webtrader platform may also be sb?? or it may be cfd/forex? you'll have to go do some checking.

 

[Inquisitor]

We recently had someone else on here called sayvia who also wanted to buy a house but took a different approach than trying to get a mortgage and thought people should just give him the money via a crowd funding type site. You can check out his progress by checking out this thread and clicking on the link in the first post and after 29 days it looks very promising.

Needing help from everyone on T2W