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Hello Traders,what trading platform( depth of market-DOM )would you recommend for scalping and why?
Thank you .
Thank you .
What trading platform( depth of market-DOM ) for scalpers.
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if u r retail & r looking for lowest fees, go to interative brokers.
eg 6usd/month lev 2 cboe futures. 2usd per trade comm
cons - no tick chart
also look at optimus futures - trade via multicharts(cqg) for free data (heard of, not tried) or sierrachart(rithmic) 25usd data per mth, dirt cheap for the vast amt of market subscriptions. approx 2usd comm per trade
eg 6usd/month lev 2 cboe futures. 2usd per trade comm
cons - no tick chart
also look at optimus futures - trade via multicharts(cqg) for free data (heard of, not tried) or sierrachart(rithmic) 25usd data per mth, dirt cheap for the vast amt of market subscriptions. approx 2usd comm per trade
TT is very expensive.. any suggestions for access to it with a reasonably priced broker?
Unfortunately there's no 'cheap ' way of doing it as if you get data/x trader bundled together then you will pay higher commission each trade so it's a zero sum game. I would suggest optimus futures or look up ft71 on google-he has his own brokerage that I think is quite good.
One thing I have realised is that the computerisation of trading has given traders (including myself in the past ) the unrealistic expectation that we can get all we want for free/at low cost in terms of platforms etc.
Considering the barriers to entry that used to exist to be able to trade (get job in bank/buy seat on exchange) then the costs to get the same data and platforms that successful pro traders use actually seems quite reasonable. Let's call it the cost of doing business like a pro
If you're trading futures then I don't know too many of the liquid markets that are less than approx 10 euros/£/$ per point (yes there is mini dow but don't count that as very liquid+10 points in the Dow is not a big move). If you're successfully trading with that trade size then the cost of tt/x trader is kind of irrelevant.
One thing I have realised is that the computerisation of trading has given traders (including myself in the past ) the unrealistic expectation that we can get all we want for free/at low cost in terms of platforms etc.
Considering the barriers to entry that used to exist to be able to trade (get job in bank/buy seat on exchange) then the costs to get the same data and platforms that successful pro traders use actually seems quite reasonable. Let's call it the cost of doing business like a pro
If you're trading futures then I don't know too many of the liquid markets that are less than approx 10 euros/£/$ per point (yes there is mini dow but don't count that as very liquid+10 points in the Dow is not a big move). If you're successfully trading with that trade size then the cost of tt/x trader is kind of irrelevant.
Unfortunately there's no 'cheap ' way of doing it as if you get data/x trader bundled together then you will pay higher commission each trade so it's a zero sum game. I would suggest optimus futures or look up ft71 on google-he has his own brokerage that I think is quite good.
One thing I have realised is that the computerisation of trading has given traders (including myself in the past ) the unrealistic expectation that we can get all we want for free/at low cost in terms of platforms etc.
Considering the barriers to entry that used to exist to be able to trade (get job in bank/buy seat on exchange) then the costs to get the same data and platforms that successful pro traders use actually seems quite reasonable. Let's call it the cost of doing business like a pro
If you're trading futures then I don't know too many of the liquid markets that are less than approx 10 euros/£/$ per point (yes there is mini dow but don't count that as very liquid+10 points in the Dow is not a big move). If you're successfully trading with that trade size then the cost of tt/x trader is kind of irrelevant.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge bootsyjam!
I did use TT before in my younger days. It's pretty overkill even for an intra-day scalper. Mostly good for inter-market arbitrage scalpers back in the day.. not so much now with algos getting all the arb now. It looks good.. but you can do much better with your money.
As I only scalp a specific product, dow minis for now, minimising costs makes sense. Most feed providers sell data in bundles, which doesn't make sense for small retail like myself. I am considering optimus, & have demo-ed for awhile infact.
Look at Sierra Chart, excellent platform if ur on a budget, you can customise it to look like TT if you want! Until ur at a level to get volume discounts then have a look at deepdiscounttrading, blingy name and website but all the pricing is there without having to submit an enquiry. YM at $3.34 per rt plus platform fees and data. I looked into this v recently and if ur happy having just Sierra Chart as ur only platform then the CQG FIX feed is 10 c per rt, platform and data depends on the features option you choose within Sierra. DDT support is great, and Sierra has a comprehensive website.
Fair enough. You mentioned that you are scalping. As such you need to work out what is the best Dom in terms of order routing, reliability and general performance. If scalping, your entries are going to be even more important. I know some prop traders and everyone uses TT. I had exactly the same conversation with them about cost etc and they were all adamant that TT was the best for execution and order routing. I'm more of a swing trader so technically I don't need the awesome functionality, but then again I still need reliable fills and TT apparently is best in this regard. Any savings you make on another DOM might be a bit of a mirage as you might get more slippage/not get filled at all which can affect taking profits as well as respecting stop losses if you use them.
I'm not overly technical so depends how deep you want to delve into the technical side. If you don't mind me asking, are you uk based and what will be your approx acct size?
TT is great for.pure bid-ask scalpers going for a few ticks. They have very very advanced conditional entry orders. For eg you can place an order at the next bid above the current price ONLY IF the bid size has a minium of 30 contracts. This would have been a huge edge 10 years+ ago before algos came into the market. Such an edge will give a scalper a huge chance for a better queue to be filled forst & manny other contracts to lean on
I am not a pure sxalper like the above. I should prob say I am an intraday trader. DOM is an extra for me. my trades r placed off charts. I just find flashing tickers & the rapid movememt of DOM too adrenaline inducing. I prefer to keep it boring & trade off tick charts. I m not uk based.
Perhaps you r wondering what is the minimum you need to trade futures. Using dow minis as an eg, if you trade 1 contract & your avg stop is 20ticks (1 tick $5 x 20ticks = 100usd), & you risk 1% a trade, You will need a bare minimum of 10k usd. Simply adjust the tick/avg stop size/ risk per trsde values for an idea of which product you r interest in. Good luck!
Uh you've misunderstood. I was asking your account size because if you have an account of 100k and you're a scalper then then the TT cost is of no consequence.
And now I find out you're not a scalper as such but an intraday trader and just want to trade off a chart. And you find a DOM too distracting. So why are you asking at all-passing the time or something?
Anyway, good luck in your search.
Hi Bootsy,
I'm not a scalper either, trades usually last from a few mins to a few hours. As described in my earlier post I use Sierra with a CQG FIX feed, usually trading direct from a chart, sometimes from a Dom. It has never occurred to me that using CQG or CTS as I have in the past might give worse fills than TT. Do you know whether the evidence is just anecdotal or the result of genuine comparisons?
Thanks, T
I'm not a scalper either, trades usually last from a few mins to a few hours. As described in my earlier post I use Sierra with a CQG FIX feed, usually trading direct from a chart, sometimes from a Dom. It has never occurred to me that using CQG or CTS as I have in the past might give worse fills than TT. Do you know whether the evidence is just anecdotal or the result of genuine comparisons?
Thanks, T
I am interested in TT's algo design lab. If the costs for TT has come down, I would definitely go for it. can you share an idea of the lowest cost for a TT setup?
Thanks for your info T44. I m holding back with optimus that goes thru amp futures at the moment, until I clear up issues like reliability. Has DDT been in the industry for long.. reputatable with reliable fills in your experience?
I m using IB. slippage on YM is normal. either price slips past my entry stops n dun get executed or v occassionally slips past my stop loss for a worse fill.
DDT is an introducing broker, one man band it appears a guy called Howard Lender. His CS is spot on, rarely wait more than a couple of hours on a reply to a basic enquiry, and more important stuff is very quick. They clear through Ironbeam, which it seems is a subsidiary of Wedbush these days. You get a choice of datafeeds which is where Bootsy's fills issue may come in. I've never noticed any issues, but if you do lose a tick a side compared to TT then it would mount up....don't know how to test this though!
I looked at AMP but opted for DDT a few years ago, DDT cleared Crossland at the time, they got bought out.
I use Dorman at the mo, despite being a clearer they do take retail clients, but I do find their CS rather patchy although once everythings set up and agreed its fine......but I'm considering going back to DDT in the near future.
I looked at AMP but opted for DDT a few years ago, DDT cleared Crossland at the time, they got bought out.
I use Dorman at the mo, despite being a clearer they do take retail clients, but I do find their CS rather patchy although once everythings set up and agreed its fine......but I'm considering going back to DDT in the near future.
Dow futures are a relatively thin market, you'll always get slippage on it no matter what datafeed/clearer/platform you use.
Price of TT has not gone down. Hence why it is important to know your acct size because if it's 100k then you won't care about the cost.
Hi T44,
The prop traders I spoke to were part of a prop shop who traded through Marex here in the UK (major clearer here). So it's a combination of the quality/speed of the market data as well as that of your clearer, on top of the front end platform (e.g. TT/Sierra Charts) you use to enter the market! To drive my charts I have dtn.iq feed with Investor RT charts, but my trading DOM is driven by the data feed from my broker/clearer.
I've used Sierra in the past to trade off and it is pretty good, it doesn't quite have the functionality with volume profile that I'm after so I stopped using it. If you're swing trading I don't think it really matters too much to have TT, but if you're looking for v short term trades e.g. flipping, or front running large orders for a few ticks, or getting an entry and then a subsequent profit taking order at the market open at 7am (UK time) in the first few seconds of trading then TT, with a good broker/clearer would be the way ahead for sure.
And the final thing is, when (because it's always when and not 'if') the sh*t goes down and the market breaks because of a bank going under/terrorist attack/unexpected interest rate rise, you'll want to have the best feed, with the best connection to a clearer, with the best platform available, in order to make sure you're in the correct spot in the queue.
I'm afraid I don't know enough about order routing to make an expert comment.
Do you enter the market via the CQG data-is that the roker data? Or is it transmitted via CQG to the broker/clearer who then transmits it to the market?
It's a rabbit hole to go into, I know that much
If you use stop losses, do you know whether the stop losses that you see on the chart (if trading from the chart) are actually transmitted to the exchange, or are they held locally (on your PC) or on the broker's system, and are transmitted to the exchange when they are hit?
I seem to remember asking that to SC but I cna't remember the response!
The issue I am having with these discount futures firms are that there is absolutely no protection if they go bankrupt. Most of these firms r just white labels, going thru a real broker.
At least IB is registered with Securities Investor Protection Corporation. However, AMP futures & Ironbeam are not, from a quick check at finra-
https://brokercheck.finra.org/search/genericsearch/firmgrid
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=ibgStrength&p=acc
AMP futures does not have SIPC - http://quick1fr.ampclearing.com/GetFile.ashx?fileId=8bbe45d8-da55-4f6d-a364-87c2f2933984
FIA Protection on Customer Funds - https://secure.fia.org/downloads/PCF_questions.pdf
I'm still looking for a funds protected broker with lower fees, offering tick charts.
Thanks Bootsy I appreciate your explanation, and yes it sure is a complicated subject....One thing I do know is that Sierra has the option to hold attached orders within it's servers or submitted to the exchange, there is a check box somewhere deep in the software for you to choose....I go with the latter although stops tend to go further away than I intend and I drag them in if the trade looks like it's going wrong.
Econ,
Sounds like you are going through the same hoops and concerns that I did a few years ago when I was looking to save commissions over IB s. I think that as Bootsy says if you haven't got a 100k ac where TT s $800 ish a month is a small percentage, then there is no one broker that fits all. The Ironbeam issue you found is the main reason I am still with Dorman despite the patchy poor CS.
The one thing for me that is a must is Sierra Chart, back 10 years ago it had the reputation of being cheap and cheerful and I paid the extra for esignal. 4 years ago as a result of a post on here I took another look, and was amazed the progress was superb but it's still cheap!! If you trade off charts then the chart trade function is excellent.
Sounds like you are going through the same hoops and concerns that I did a few years ago when I was looking to save commissions over IB s. I think that as Bootsy says if you haven't got a 100k ac where TT s $800 ish a month is a small percentage, then there is no one broker that fits all. The Ironbeam issue you found is the main reason I am still with Dorman despite the patchy poor CS.
The one thing for me that is a must is Sierra Chart, back 10 years ago it had the reputation of being cheap and cheerful and I paid the extra for esignal. 4 years ago as a result of a post on here I took another look, and was amazed the progress was superb but it's still cheap!! If you trade off charts then the chart trade function is excellent.
