what platform is the best to use

[mdtbyk]

hi
im loking in to trading the spx500 future but i cant really find a good and cheap/free charting that is the price with no delay of that spx500 futue it is important for me that the software can notify me that a certin indictior ison the move i would like to know if anyone can help me out here thanks

 

[drtro]

You won't find anything good that is free. Get NinjaTrader. I assume you're looking for a brokerage?

NT Brokerage has $1K account minimums I believe, and intraday margin is only $500. Only time they require initial margin is when you hold over the 5:15-6PM timeframe where futures market close.

Commissions is $0.95 a side for the free edition, however if you own a platform licence, it's only $0.53 a side.

You can buy a data feed or use Rithimic which is an extra $0.50 round turn.

You really can't beat NT Brokerage for futures trading, unless of course you're well capitalized. They have position limits, 100 I think for /ES.

I recently switched to NT from ThinkOrSwim and wish I made the move years ago.

 

[hhiusa]

You won't find anything good that is free. Get NinjaTrader. I assume you're looking for a brokerage?

NT Brokerage has $1K account minimums I believe, and intraday margin is only $500. Only time they require initial margin is when you hold over the 5:15-6PM timeframe where futures market close.

Commissions is $0.95 a side for the free edition, however if you own a platform licence, it's only $0.53 a side.

You can buy a data feed or use Rithimic which is an extra $0.50 round turn.

You really can't beat NT Brokerage for futures trading, unless of course you're well capitalized. They have position limits, 100 I think for /ES.

I recently switched to NT from ThinkOrSwim and wish I made the move years ago.

You cannot daytrade with a $1,000. What would be the point of being with a broker with a $1,000 minimum. You absolutely cannot trade on margin with less than $2,000 per NYSE and NASDAQ rules. The minimum for most brokers will be even higher. You must deposit $20,000 at my brokerage firm to have a margin account. Any brokerage that says otherwise is not telling you the whole story.

http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules

Does the rule apply to day-trading options?

Yes. The day-trading margin rule applies to day trading in any security, including options.

What is a pattern day trader?

You will be considered a pattern day trader if you trade four or more times in five business days and your day-trading activities are greater than six percent of your total trading activity for that same five-day period.

Your brokerage firm also may designate you as a pattern day trader if it knows or has a reasonable basis to believe that you are a pattern day trader. For example, if the firm provided day-trading training to you before opening your account, it could designate you as a pattern day trader.

Per SEC and FINRA in the US
What is the minimum equity requirement for a pattern day trader?

The minimum equity requirements on any day in which you trade is $25,000. The required $25,000 must be deposited in the account prior to any day-trading activities and must be maintained at all times. - See more at: http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules#sthash.8H6JeqKM.dpuf

Why is the minimum equity requirement for pattern day traders higher than the current minimum equity requirement of $2,000?

The minimum equity requirement of $2,000 was established in 1974, before the technology existed to allow for electronic day trading by the retail investor. As a result, the $2,000 minimum equity requirement was not created to apply to day-trading activities Rather, the $2,000 minimum equity requirement was developed for the buy-and-hold investor who retained securities collateral in his/her account, where the securities collateral was (and still is) subject to a 25 percent regulatory maintenance margin requirement for long equity securities. This collateral could be sold out if the securities declined substantially in value and were subject to a margin call. The typical day trader, however, is flat at the end of the day (i.e., he is neither long nor short securities). Therefore, there is no collateral for the brokerage firm to sell out to meet margin requirements and collateral must be obtained by other means. Accordingly, the higher minimum equity requirement for day trading provides the brokerage firm a cushion to meet any deficiencies in the account resulting from day trading.
- See more at: http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules#sthash.8H6JeqKM.dpuf

Can I cross-guarantee my accounts to meet the minimum equity requirement?

No, you can't use a cross-guarantee to meet any of the day-trading margin requirements. Each day-trading account is required to meet the minimum equity requirement independently, using only the financial resources available in the account. - See more at: http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules#sthash.8H6JeqKM.dpuf

What happens if the equity in my account falls below the minimum equity requirement?

If the account falls below the $25,000 requirement, you will not be permitted to day trade until you deposit cash or securities in the account to restore the account to the $25,000 minimum equity level. - See more at: http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules#sthash.8H6JeqKM.dpuf

 

[drtro]

You cannot daytrade with a $1,000. What would be the point of being with a broker with a $1,000 minimum. You absolutely cannot trade on margin with less than $2,000 per NYSE and NASDAQ rules. The minimum for most brokers will be even higher. You must deposit $20,000 at my brokerage firm to have a margin account. Any brokerage that says otherwise is not telling you the whole story.

http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules

Does the rule apply to day-trading options?

Yes. The day-trading margin rule applies to day trading in any security, including options.

What is a pattern day trader?

You will be considered a pattern day trader if you trade four or more times in five business days and your day-trading activities are greater than six percent of your total trading activity for that same five-day period.

Your brokerage firm also may designate you as a pattern day trader if it knows or has a reasonable basis to believe that you are a pattern day trader. For example, if the firm provided day-trading training to you before opening your account, it could designate you as a pattern day trader.

Per SEC and FINRA in the US
What is the minimum equity requirement for a pattern day trader?

The minimum equity requirements on any day in which you trade is $25,000. The required $25,000 must be deposited in the account prior to any day-trading activities and must be maintained at all times. - See more at: http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules#sthash.8H6JeqKM.dpuf

Why is the minimum equity requirement for pattern day traders higher than the current minimum equity requirement of $2,000?

The minimum equity requirement of $2,000 was established in 1974, before the technology existed to allow for electronic day trading by the retail investor. As a result, the $2,000 minimum equity requirement was not created to apply to day-trading activities Rather, the $2,000 minimum equity requirement was developed for the buy-and-hold investor who retained securities collateral in his/her account, where the securities collateral was (and still is) subject to a 25 percent regulatory maintenance margin requirement for long equity securities. This collateral could be sold out if the securities declined substantially in value and were subject to a margin call. The typical day trader, however, is flat at the end of the day (i.e., he is neither long nor short securities). Therefore, there is no collateral for the brokerage firm to sell out to meet margin requirements and collateral must be obtained by other means. Accordingly, the higher minimum equity requirement for day trading provides the brokerage firm a cushion to meet any deficiencies in the account resulting from day trading.
- See more at: http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules#sthash.8H6JeqKM.dpuf

Can I cross-guarantee my accounts to meet the minimum equity requirement?

No, you can't use a cross-guarantee to meet any of the day-trading margin requirements. Each day-trading account is required to meet the minimum equity requirement independently, using only the financial resources available in the account. - See more at: http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules#sthash.8H6JeqKM.dpuf

What happens if the equity in my account falls below the minimum equity requirement?

If the account falls below the $25,000 requirement, you will not be permitted to day trade until you deposit cash or securities in the account to restore the account to the $25,000 minimum equity level. - See more at: http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules#sthash.8H6JeqKM.dpuf

Thanks for failing at Google. FINRA has nothing to do with Futures. Futures is regulated by the SEC and CFTC. The only involvement the FINRA has in Futures is the regulation over arbitration. They have nothing to do with accounts or margin requirements. The CFTC controls regulation. Futures is governed under the CFMA.

It's typical to see the Intraday margin can go as low as $300. So yes, you can trade on $500 Intraday Margin. It's not the best margin rate out there, but then again it's NinjaTrader and you can't really get better than them. No, the Pattern Day Trading rule of $25K doesn't apply to futures, or Forex for that matter. There is no legal minimum on what balance you must maintain in order to day trade futures, although you must have enough in the account to cover all day trading margins and fluctuations which result from your positions.

 

[hhiusa]

Thanks for failing at Google. FINRA has nothing to do with Futures. Futures is regulated by the SEC and CFTC. The only involvement the FINRA has in Futures is the regulation over arbitration. They have nothing to do with accounts or margin requirements. The CFTC controls regulation. Futures is governed under the CFMA.

It's typical to see the Intraday margin can go as low as $300. So yes, you can trade on $500 Intraday Margin. It's not the best margin rate out there, but then again it's NinjaTrader and you can't really get better than them. No, the Pattern Day Trading rule of $25K doesn't apply to futures, or Forex for that matter. There is no legal minimum on what balance you must maintain in order to day trade futures, although you must have enough in the account to cover all day trading margins and fluctuations which result from your positions.

You are really something. You don't have to google to know about rule 431. How can you be making any money with only $500? I was actually thinking you were trading for a living and $25,000 wouldn't be problem for you but apparently it seems that you are trading futures because you are flat broke.

 

[drtro]

You are really something. You don't have to google to know about rule 431. How can you be making any money with only $500? I was actually thinking you were trading for a living and $25,000 wouldn't be problem for you but apparently it seems that you are trading futures because you are flat broke.

Nobody ever said anything about trading with $500 Urpo. I said Intraday Margin for NinjaTrader Brokerage is $500.

Here's a book for you, to better understand.

http://goo.gl/38qokX

But you know, Americans are stubborn as children even in their 50s.

 

[hhiusa]

Nobody ever said anything about trading with $500 Urpo. I said Intraday Margin for NinjaTrader Brokerage is $500.

Here's a book for you, to better understand.

http://goo.gl/38qokX

But you know, Americans are stubborn as children even in their 50s.

How dumb are you? you profile says you're the US. If you are not American, why would you put it in your profile? You write like English is not your first language.

 

[drtro]

How dumb are you? you profile says you're the US. If you are not American, why would you put it in your profile? You write like English is not your first language.

Oh I'm American. I'm just not proud of the level of stupidity our people withhold. Like how you are completely ignoring the fact that you are wrong and jump into an argument over grammar. Are you a 15 year old girl on Facebook? Get over yourself, and just move along. Americans hate being wrong.

 

[hhiusa]

Oh I'm American. I'm just not proud of the level of stupidity our people withhold. Like how you are completely ignoring the fact that you are wrong and jump into an argument over grammar. Are you a 15 year old girl on Facebook? Get over yourself, and just move along. Americans hate being wrong.

You say that as you act like what you are describing. Maybe in order to not sound so uneducated, you may want to say some Americans as the sweeping generalization includes you too buddy. What should I expect from a dumb American like you, right?

 

[drtro]

You say that as you act like what you are describing. Maybe in order to not sound so uneducated, you may want to say some Americans as the sweeping generalization includes you too buddy. What should I expect from a dumb American like you, right?

Deferring to grammar and then talking about generalizations. You'd fit in well on 4chan. I think they have a business and Finance board. They'd love you.

 

[hhiusa]

Deferring to grammar and then talking about generalizations. You'd fit in well on 4chan. I think they have a business and Finance board. They'd love you.

If the shoe fits.

 

[timsk]

hi
im loking in to trading the spx500 future but i cant really find a good and cheap/free charting that is the price with no delay of that spx500 futue it is important for me that the software can notify me that a certin indictior ison the move i would like to know if anyone can help me out here thanks

Hi mdtbyk,
I no longer day trade futures but, in the days that I did, I used Infinity Futures and their InfinityAT platform which is very easy to use. Customer service is by far the best I've ever had from any broker - and I've tried quite a few over the years. Well worth adding them to your short list, IMO.

hhiusa & drtro,
With my arbitration hat on, how about a compromise? Here's what Infinity (who I recommended highly to the OP) have to say in their FAQs on the subject of account size and margins:

What is the minimum to open an account?
Futures accounts should only be funded with the risk capital portion of your investment portfolio. Therefore we do not encourage you to violate the risk capital rule when tying to meet a predefined minimum. Keep in mind, in order to trade you must meet certain margin requirements set by the exchanges and day trading margins set by the brokerage firm. As an example, you may qualify for a day trading account which allows you to fund with as little as $3,000 - depending on the market you would like to trade.

What are your day trade margins?
It is true that day trade margins can be significantly less than exchange minimum over night margins. Please keep in mind, that by definition, the lower your day trade margin the more leverage you are using. This magnifies the risk and the reward potential of your trades. Alternatively, lower margins allow you to use your capital in a more efficient manner. As an example day trade margins on the E-mini S&P 500 can be as low as $500 per contract.

Based on the above, it's clear that the pattern day trader rule doesn't apply to futures trading. Nonetheless, to avoid blowing up prematurely - and hopefully not at all - it is highly recommended that futures traders fund their account with much larger sums than the absolute bare minimum allowed. Is this a compromise upon which you can both agree?

Tim.

 

[drtro]

Hi mdtbyk,
I no longer day trade futures but, in the days that I did, I used Infinity Futures and their InfinityAT platform which is very easy to use. Customer service is by far the best I've ever had from any broker - and I've tried quite a few over the years. Well worth adding them to your short list, IMO.

hhiusa & drtro,
With my arbitration hat on, how about a compromise? Here's what Infinity (who I recommended highly to the OP) have to say in their FAQs on the subject of account size and margins:

What is the minimum to open an account?
Futures accounts should only be funded with the risk capital portion of your investment portfolio. Therefore we do not encourage you to violate the risk capital rule when tying to meet a predefined minimum. Keep in mind, in order to trade you must meet certain margin requirements set by the exchanges and day trading margins set by the brokerage firm. As an example, you may qualify for a day trading account which allows you to fund with as little as $3,000 - depending on the market you would like to trade.

What are your day trade margins?
It is true that day trade margins can be significantly less than exchange minimum over night margins. Please keep in mind, that by definition, the lower your day trade margin the more leverage you are using. This magnifies the risk and the reward potential of your trades. Alternatively, lower margins allow you to use your capital in a more efficient manner. As an example day trade margins on the E-mini S&P 500 can be as low as $500 per contract.

Based on the above, it's clear that the pattern day trader rule doesn't apply to futures trading. Nonetheless, to avoid blowing up prematurely - and hopefully not at all - it is highly recommended that futures traders fund their account with much larger sums than the absolute bare minimum allowed. Is this a compromise upon which you can both agree?

Tim.

I'd recommend the margin should be no more than 10% of your account. So if you are wanting to trade /ES in 1 lots and the margin is $500, then you should have at least $5,000 in your account.

Of course this applies to day trading. If you are a swing trader and plan to hold over the 5:15-6:00 session breaks, then initial margin would apply and you'd need a lot more capital.

 

[hhiusa]

I'd recommend the margin should be no more than 10% of your account. So if you are wanting to trade /ES in 1 lots and the margin is $500, then you should have at least $5,000 in your account.

Of course this applies to day trading. If you are a swing trader and plan to hold over the 5:15-6:00 session breaks, then initial margin would apply and you'd need a lot more capital.

$5,000 doesn't seem like enough money to properly diversify. That is only enough for one contract at time in my eyes. I don't know what your fees and commission are but they would generally be higher if you are using a brokerage firm with such a low account minimum requirement.:whistling

If you wish to leverage an account with $5,000 greater than 2:1, then you should just put $10,000 into the account instead. I would find it inadvisable to invest with money that is not yours to lose.

 

[hhiusa]

Based on the above, it's clear that the pattern day trader rule doesn't apply to futures trading. Nonetheless, to avoid blowing up prematurely - and hopefully not at all - it is highly recommended that futures traders fund their account with much larger sums than the absolute bare minimum allowed. Is this a compromise upon which you can both agree?

Tim.

I definitely agree with you about funding the account with more than the absolute minimum. I especially agree with the part about funding with risk capital.

 

[drtro]

$5,000 doesn't seem like enough money to properly diversify. That is only enough for one contract at time in my eyes. I don't know what your fees and commission are but they would generally be higher if you are using a brokerage firm with such a low account minimum requirement.:whistling

If you wish to leverage an account with $5,000 greater than 2:1, then you should just put $10,000 into the account instead. I would find it inadvisable to invest with money that is not yours to lose.

Lol, better diversify your futures investments! That 20 year plan in Futures dawg.

You shouldn't be paying more than $5 round trip for a futures trade. I can make more than that in 1 tick in 99% of the Futures instruments.

Do you have any clue what you are talking about here? You copy and paste a risk disclosure agreement in a thread about data feeds. You say FINRA regulates Futures in one thread and then say they don't in another. You go on in other threads insulting people because they aren't American, and call people poor because they trade Futures or CFDs. You have some character. I seriously hope you aren't an investor or trader, because you have a lot to learn.
@timsk Am I seriously being ****ed with or what? Does nobody else see this guy's posts?

 

[timsk]

. . . @timsk Am I seriously being ****ed with or what? Does nobody else see this guy's posts?

Hi drtro,
T2W is a free forum, so anyone can join and post what they want, so long as it's trading related and doesn't breach the Community Constitution (CC). If any post you read (be it by hhiusa or someone else) breaches the CC - then please use the red flag 'Report Post' facility to bring it to the attention of our Mod' team who will then take appropriate action.

Without doubt, this policy has its strong points and, in the eyes of some, one or two weaknesses. If a member posts something that is misleading or just plain wrong - but doesn't breach the CC - then the post is left untouched by Moderators and it's up to other members to point out the error of their ways and set thread subscribers on the right path. It doesn't work all of the time but, for the most part, it works pretty well, as those that know just love to display their knowledge and correct those that don't. Meanwhile, the naïve newbie who knows no better ends up being a lot wiser and learns a lot in the process. So, in the case of this thread, although hhiusa is incorrect about his/her assertion that futures traders are bound by the PDT rule, thanks to your posts it doesn't matter, as readers of the thread are now informed about it (which otherwise they might not be) and have a better understanding about futures.

You may be annoyed by (some of) hhiusa's posts but, when viewed in the context that I've outlined above, his/her contributions have value and merit. As do yours of course. And therein lies the beauty of community forums like T2W. All in all, it's a win/win situation!


Tim.

 

[hhiusa]

Lol, better diversify your futures investments! That 20 year plan in Futures dawg.

You shouldn't be paying more than $5 round trip for a futures trade. I can make more than that in 1 tick in 99% of the Futures instruments.

Do you have any clue what you are talking about here? You copy and paste a risk disclosure agreement in a thread about data feeds. You say FINRA regulates Futures in one thread and then say they don't in another. You go on in other threads insulting people because they aren't American, and call people poor because they trade Futures or CFDs. You have some character. I seriously hope you aren't an investor or trader, because you have a lot to learn.

@timsk Am I seriously being ****ed with or what? Does nobody else see this guy's posts?

Who said anything about 20 years? You don't just diversify over long runs, you can diversify over short periods too.

You keep going on about how I misspoke about the futures when somebody already corrected that point a while ago. Do you have anything else pertinent to say?

I figured based upon your posts that you only had $5,000 to work with at which point I don't know how you diversify with so little to work with. If you have than that to work with, please clarify.

$5 is 0.1% of $5,000, I was stating that it is still a waste to trade with such an amount in my eyes. If you invest with more per trade than the commission decreases to a level not worth considering. I figured based upon your posts that you only had $5,000 to work with at which point I don't know how you diversify with so little to work with. How many open trades do you do at one time? If the answer is more than one then that's not very much per trade especially if you are getting charged $5 a whack. $5 on $1,000 a trade is way to high of a commission (0.5%) whereas you would be right that $5 doesn't matter on a trade of $10,000. If I am actively trading something intraday, those 0.5% expenditures creates major opportunity costs. 0.5% magnified by 10 trades in a day is a 5.1%. I would prefer to have those gains in my account, not the firms.

 

[Idude]

How dumb are you? you profile says you're the US. If you are not American, why would you put it in your profile? You write like English is not your first language.

It is obvious you have no idea of what you are talking about, please do yourself a favor to shut your mouth!

 

[jamezz34]

Ninjatrader is ok for outrights and general execution but you might need to get MarketDelta on the side if you want to get a better picture of the market. If you want a cheap DOM go for something like Jigsaw trading.

If you want to trade spreads then you will need to fork out a little bit for either CQG or TT or CTS...

There are so many webinars on YouTube these days I'm surprised if you can't find this information out with a simple Internet search

Does that help anybody?