Vasectomy

[Nowler]

Hey folks!

I'm posting this here because I respect the opinions of those of you who have helped me along my trading/investing journey.

I decided at 21 years of age that I didnt want kids, and was going to just get the snip then, but someone had recommended I wait a few years to be sure. So i waited 11 years... and now, 2 months off 32, i feel far stronger about it now than i did then.

However,
While I'm not necessarily getting cold feet, I havent come across a person that said it was a good idea. In fact, any time it comes up in conversation people look at me like I have 2 heads and I'm told it's a bad idea. Due to this, I would like to hear the input from those of you I respect here, those who have similar goals to me and ways of thinking.

At 21, I just didnt want kids. I didnt want to be tied down to such responsibilities. Now, I feel the same, but I also have more reasons such as my efforts to improve my socioeconomic status and also that I not pass on my blood clot disorder which is hereditary.

I have also been quite vocal about the overpopulation of current times. The congestion in areas such as the NHS, the strain on social welfare departments and so on...
I mean we could write a list the length of my arm for all the negative impacts directly and indirectly caused by the rapid multiplying of us.

I dont currently have a lady, but accidents can happen. And should I get someone pregnant, that's my life as I know it over.

I was born a pleb, and raised a pleb. I was raised in a lower socioeconomic council estate, surrounded by plebs who make plebs decisions. I have found it exceptionally difficult to turn things around and move away from the stupid and short sighted decisions. In trying to improve the lives of my family and I, I value the flexibility that being childfree brings.

If an opportunity arises, I can turn on a penny. I dont have much possessions, so could drop everything and relocate in a heartbeat. In my head, this is a no brainer. If i dont want kids, and I have to be nimble in order to capitalize on opportunities to further my prospects, then getting the snip is a logical form of risk management. The hereditary aspect and the bigger picture of the exponential growth of our species just adds the cherry on top.

What are your thoughts?
Have any of you been in a similar situation, or know someone who has?

 

[Nowler]

Condom use has a failure rate of 1 in 10. A vasectomy has a 1 in 1000.

Yes, I would be relatively safe with a condom, but we all know how consistent we are with those when in a relationship. Sometimes we get a bit wreckless in the heat of the moment, but the risk, at least for my situation is astronomical.

Even with the consistent practice of safe sex, failure can occur.

I have no interest in passing on my blood line. I dont care for it. After 3 generations there would be very little of our own bloodline left anyway!

If in the unlikely even that I did decide 10 years down the line that I wanted to have kids. There is the option of adoption...

 

[NVP]

Hey N

serious decision dude......hmmmm

if you want to then do it ...however i would lay some "spare" away in a sperm bank..... just in case you ever felt the need in future to have a baby with someone

N

 

[NVP]

meanwhile is it just me who is now feeling a little quesy ......what is it with that V word ......??

 

[malaguti]

I didn't want kids. I didn't get married until i was 40ish. I wanted the career, didn't feel it was right when i was in my 30s. wasn't ready, was never a paternal sort of guy. that changed when i met my wife.
4 years ago we had our daughter. she is the most beautiful thing in this world. how wrong i could have been. im the best daddy in the world, a superhero in her eyes. however im now hardly young anymore and worst feeling i have now is that i'll be gone before she's had a chance to grow up
so if i had a chance again, i'd have done it earlier. because how selfish i think i was back then when it was all about money.
a child changes your perception and makes me realise that's why we're on this earth
my brother was exactly the same, we didn't have the best role model in our father. my brother has two kids. He's divorced now, but the kids are his life

i can't give you advice, but even when i didn't want kids, that would still never have been entertained. just like children are why we're here, its my balls that make me a man

 

[tomorton]

I never wanted to have children. Its not just that when younger I didn't feel ready, or sometimes wanted them and sometimes didn't, or hadn't found the right partner, I always consciously wanted to never have them. It would have been a very good idea for me to have a vasectomy - I certainly didn't realise the failure rates of various types of contraception so I never considered it. Having a child is too important a duty to simply accept when one happens to come along - I'd have done a good job as a father no doubt but actually that's not good enough.

If you really want children one day, get on with finding a partner and having them asap. If you know you never have and never will want them, have a vasectomy asap. either way, get on with your true life.

 

[Pat494]

Most women these days are SO independent that they become unattractive. Filled up with the feminists " can do better than men " philosophy.
I am not married with kids. I couldn't find a nice woman who didn't nag etc. Looking back and having lived with a number of women I look back with no regrets.
I travelled the world and had adventures from the Far East, Europe to Austalasia and a good time now and again. Some may say selfishly although I always had marriage in the back of my mind. The exitement of the first few dates usually wears off as she runs out of chat etc. and it's time to move on.
Pursue one's dreams and ambitions for happiness.

 

[timsk]

Hi Nowler,
Life has a way of not turning out as you expect. So, whilst you know you don't want kids now - you can't be sure you'll feel the same way in 10 or 20 years time. You just can't. (See malaguti's post, above.) Also, chances are that you'll meet 'the one' and know she's the gel for you. And, chances are that she will want children and then you'll have the dilemma of staying with her and becoming a dad or ending the relationship so she's free to find someone else to have kids with. So, I say don't have a vasectomy - at least not yet. Wait until you find the person you want to settle down with and then discuss it with her. And if you do go ahead and get it done now, then follow NVP's sage advice and lay some "spare" away in a sperm bank. In the meantime, unless you're a super stud competing with the likes of Micks Hucknall and Jagger for the most notches on the bed post - you'll do just fine with the available methods of contraception.
Tim.

 

[Nowler]

Thanks for the input folks!
Its appreciated, as always.

Its definitly a big decision alright...
And one I'm not taking lightly. Hence waiting 10 years to be sure.

My reasons for asking you guys is not that I think "maybe I might want kids", but rather because when everyone else is saying otherwise, one should seriously consider that there might be something to it. Though, as we know in the world of trading and investing, the crowd is almost always wrong. And I know from psychology that group think is very often incorrect, inefficient, blinded and perhaps just plain dumb.

I fully appreciate the responsibility of parenthood. I am aware that it's not just a matter of feeding them, caring for them. I feel it's important that a parent plan ahead (as much as they can). That is, on top of the general parenting, one should be exposing their kids to various sports, musical instruments, education etc in order to give them the best chance possible to succeed in life.

I remember as an adolescent, wishing I was 18 so I could move out into the world and away from the "my house, my rules" environment I was in. Becoming an adult, getting a car, and having a job was an amazing experience. It was like my life was just beginning. I used to feel somewhat bad for those who had kids at such a young age. I would think that just as their lives were about to begin, they slammed the door in their own faces.

Then after going through somewhat of an eye opener in the form of my psychology degree, and then becoming aware of what the trading/investing world could offer, I feel it's similar to life really only beginning now again.

Ok, I dont have a lady. I'll admit that things could change. But while I think its wise to be open to the fact that things might change... it might not either.
In fact, what's right here, right now is a strong desire to not have kids. A strong desire to travel the world. A yearning for something different than the same path almost everyone else takes. An adventure, as one of you said. Also, keep in mind that I'm 32 now... so the older I get, the more unsafe it is to have kids. And if having a child ends my life as I know it, what would having a disabled child do? No disrespect to those with disabled family.

I feel like my life is just beginning. I became acutely aware at how low on the ladder I was. At how feeble my mind was. I hated school as a kid because of how it made me feel. But now after becoming an adult, experiencing the world and becoming aware of different methods of learning, and different subjects that I never considered, I love learning! Literally an insatiable desire to learn new things (apart from what parenthood is like, haha)

I went from being stagnant, to developing at a rapid pace. And a large reason I can develop so quickly is that I am single and without children. I can turn on a penny and I am very flexible. My current income is pitiful enough (17.5k/year), but because I have no partner or kids, I only need to fund myself. So it works...barely. Having a kid puts an end to all that!

Yes, condoms and her being on the contraceptive pill will reduce that. But that's the case for everyone. Yet, look at how many people have unplanned pregnancies...
How many of you that have kids planned to have the kids you have, when you had them?

I'm not sure depositing to a sperm bank is a viable option for me. I cant remember the numbers, but it's rather expensive, and may not work. Whereas getting a vasectomy can be reversed for about 3k. Granted, it might not work either, but with time tech gets better, so over time, the success of reversals increase. AND... I dont care about my bloodline. Adoption is available, and safer if one wants to become a parent at an older age.

So if I did change my mind later, instead of accidentally having a child, it would be an intentional outcome. One that I would have to pay about 3k for. Or just adopt.

I dont know lads...
I guess in the back of my head I was hoping you would say " ya, that's a great idea, and that you have clearly thought about it thoroughly"

I have the procedure booked in for the 14th of May... so I have till then to decide on whether my mind is made up.

I guess its tricky decisions like this that adds a bit of spice to life...

 

[Pat494]

Anyone with more than 2 children should be forced to have a vasectomy imho. The world's population is expanding at an alarming rate.
People like the P*pe encouraging others to over populate the planet could do with a lobotomy.

 

[Nowler]

I'd even go one further and offer people a cash incentive to have a vasectomy (or whatever the female version is called) before they have kids. And a smaller cash incentive when they've had 1 kid.

I guess it doesnt even have to be cash... they could offer other incentives which are valued the same as the cash incentive I mentioned, but cost the state less provide. Tax incentives, x amount of food shopping... whatever!

As it stands, the problem is, or should I say, A problem is that most people cant make decisions when they dont see the benefits of it. And with getting the snip before or after 1 child, they wont notice the massive benefit to the planet because it will take generations to take effect. But the benefits would be massive!!

It's just not going to happen...
We are going to be the cause of our downfall, sooner or later. The sad part is all the species that are going extinct because of our multiplying population.

I wont ruin the movie for people in case they havent seen it, but in recent times there was this "villain" in a movie that was intending to kill off half the population at random. He was seen as the villain by all and was strongly opposed by "heros".

The twist here is that for the murder of half the population, the doomsday clock was reset. The strain on the world of humans was dramatically reduced, and as too with life in general.

Plenty off food, no healthcare stress, no traffic jams, all life flourished!

I'm not saying we should go out and murder half the population, but every cloud has a silver lining. 1 massive world war would do the trick

Interesting thought

 

[Nowler]

Long gone are the days if survival of the fittest.
We now protect the weak. And while it makes us feel good on one hand. It's a large cause of this overpopulation, which ironically makes us miserable


Dont ever let me near the red button

 

[Pat494]

The Ottoman Turks had a neat solution.
They took the children of subject Slavs etc. Castrated them and made them into a formidable fighting machine
called Janiseries. No problems in the harem then either.

 

[Nowler]

Well that slides smoothly into sterilising the modern day poor.
I say this coming from a poor background also, before anyone starts scolding me.

If you cannot raise kids to a certain standard, then no... just no. Earn the right to have kids.

Its nuts that we need a licence to drive a car, to have a dog, to own a TV, but not to have a child!

I remember reading a piece before that took up the position of empathy being a hinderance. Imagine what we could do if emotions were removed and everything was based on merit.

As it stands, the vast majority of people who have the most kids are those who simply shouldnt. It's the unintelligent and uneducated.

There is a negative correlation between intelligence/education and religiosity. That same correlation is present with intelligence/education and the number of kids on has.

 

[malaguti]

If you cannot raise kids to a certain standard, then no... just no. Earn the right to have kids

earn this right how exactly, and how will you know if cannot raise kids if you've never had one? keep a goldfish alive for a few weeks??
and as for a license, you think a test should suffice? you've passed a test, ergo go and procreate. thats going to be better is it for all children that their parent(s) managed to pass a test first? you can still have a license, and drink and drive...

 

[Nowler]

earn this right how exactly, and how will you know if cannot raise kids if you've never had one? keep a goldfish alive for a few weeks??
and as for a license, you think a test should suffice? you've passed a test, ergo go and procreate. thats going to be better is it for all children that their parent(s) managed to pass a test first? you can still have a license, and drink and drive...

Good question!
I'm not really sure...

How about:
* Having a job
* Being a certain level above the "at risk of poverty line"
* Having the means to get private healthcare

That right there focuses on those who cost the state the most.

Now... how you enforce those things gets a bit hairy.

 

[Pat494]

Some might argue that those with severe genetic disorders should not pass on dud genes making their children suffer too. Besides all the resources they use up.
But then Stephen Hawking was a case where he contributed a lot even with his disabilities. We have been through the blond Aryan superman era and they were warlike swine. So who is to say ?

 

[malaguti]

Good question!
I'm not really sure...

How about:
* Having a job
* Being a certain level above the "at risk of poverty line"
* Having the means to get private healthcare

That right there focuses on those who cost the state the most.

Now... how you enforce those things gets a bit hairy.

Michael Jackson would have ticked all those boxes...

 

[Nowler]

Michael Jackson would have ticked all those boxes...

True,
But nothing is perfect.

You know who wouldnt tick all those boxes?
Over 50% of the global population. Probably closer to 70%. And that 50 to 70% are the ones who typically have the most kids.

Start somewhere and readjust.

 

[Nowler]

Some might argue that those with severe genetic disorders should not pass on dud genes making their children suffer too. Besides all the resources they use up.
But then Stephen Hawking was a case where he contributed a lot even with his disabilities. We have been through the blond Aryan superman era and they were warlike swine. So who is to say ?

It's not an easy one to work out. But then again, think of all those who suffer from poverty every day. And then suffer health conditions as a result of said poverty. Left unchecked, billions and billions of more people will be brought into existence only to suffer the same faith.

For every 1 great person who overcame such adversity, there are tens of thousands who do not. Millions maybe?