Trading Courses/Seminars

[swager]

The reason for this post is that many sharks have jumped on board of the Stock trading Seminars and charge high prices.
My question is .
Why should they charge such high prices when thier main income is from Stock Trading ?

For me a two day course would be good.

Day One going main attributes and what to look for and how to spot good bad trades with everyone at the end of day one having a trading & money management plan.

Followed Day Two.
Questions and putting it all together with LIVE TRADING on the afternoon .
This will let everyone see for them self's what they have learnt is good or complete crap.

DAY ONE would ideally be on a Sunday with Day Two on a Monday so all candidates getting overnight accomidation before getting home early evening Monday.

What would be a fair price for such a service ?

( Taking into account that the Tutor makes his $$££ from trading and not from Seminars )

 

[swager]

Harrr and another thing the price paid for the seminar in the live trading session (2 half to 3 half hours ) will give the candidate's chance to get some money back by trading there own accounts.

Sorry if there are allready courses or seminars doing this type of thing, its just me posting my thoughts.

 

[swager]

Harr and the cost should include Food & Soft Drinks

 

[swager]

And the Tutor should buy at least one round up the bar on the evening

 

[wasp]

Oh come on Swager, if the tutor could trade, why would he be teaching?!

 

[sandpiper]

And the Tutor should buy at least one round up the bar on the evening

Swager,

You should probably read the terms and conditions regarding vendors before you take this much further.

 

[swager]

Ok Sandpiper
The tutor will not buy beer at the Bar
Dose my postings breach Terms of this site ?

Sorry wont post any more BYEEEEEEEEEE !

 

[trendie]

is this the same swager, that, on a seminar, did some live trading, Jan 2004.
( also met Alan Rich that week - really nice guy. no live-trading. but interesting style.)

this swager guy:
He went short the Dow.
The Dow went higher.
This guy kept adding to the short.
He DIDNT identify a STOP-LOSS.
He DIDNT identify the point at which he would consider it a failed trade, and take the hit.
Tom Hougaard was not impressed. ( technical hitches, had to use Toms SB account !! ).
Quanta or Quantum or something. Quant-something.
Phonetically appropriate, anyway.

Mr Charts also did his seminar bit. I decided to go for Mr Charts course.

I still have the notes from that day.

 

[trendie]

Trading Course Fees:

How about a maximum "notional" amount for the course, such as £300.
But student only pay £50. ( cost of hiring venue, manuals, etc )

Then, the TEACHER trades LIVE, and the students pay £10 (or wahtever, dependant on instrument: maybe £5 a pip for FX:cable) a point for every pip the TEACHER makes as profit, upto, but not exceeding the balance, in this case. £250.

If the teacher, is a good trader, and makes profit, the students pay accordingly.

If the teacher, is an average trader, and makes some profit, he can only charge average fees.

If the teacher, is a rubbish trader, and makes no profit, the students can leave without paying further.

PERFORMANCE-RELATED FEES!!

 

[sandpiper]

is this the same swager, that, on a seminar, did some live trading, Jan 2004.

What do you think? The musings regarding 'course' prices/content are the same BS he used to spout on TT. Personally, I couldn't give a flying **** what he spouts on here, but he should at least clarfiy his position (vendor) prior to declaring that he just happens to be running such a 'seminar'.

As for him not posting again.... like that's going to happen..

 

[beauty1]

time of the seminar

Hello,

I`m ralf from germany. Where is beginning this seminar?

regards

from ralf in oberhausen/germany

 

[rols]

Hello,

I`m ralf from germany. Where is beginning this seminar?

regards

from ralf in oberhausen/germany

 

[peto]

What would be a fair price for such a service ?

( Taking into account that the Tutor makes his $$££ from trading and not from Seminars )

£ 0.00
The tutor should do it for the love of it, and the pleasure derived from boosting his ego by demonstrating his devastating trading prowess. As you suggest, any profits and costs would be insignificant in comparison to a good trader's earnings.

Harr and the cost should include Food & Soft Drinks

Who's Harr? Is he going to be thrown in free?

And the Tutor should buy at least one round up the bar on the evening

In my view a properly rounded course would include Dancing Girls at hourly intervals to allow delegates to fully relax and properly absorb the information on offer. Holding the course in Amsterdam would allow for delegates to light up (complimentary) spliffs and so check out their ability to see whole new patterns in their charts. Secker's courses apparently now include mutual shoulder-massage sessions, I'm sure there's scope to expand on this: Delegates should assist each other to "Enter the Zone" with reflexology, aromatherapy, and perhaps mutual acupuncture on each other's wrists to fend off repetitive strain injury from excessive mousing.

I`m ralf from germany. Where is beginning this seminar?

regards

from ralf in oberhausen/germany

Tell me it's not really this easy, is it?

 

[rols]

£ 0.00
The tutor should do it for the love of it, and the pleasure derived from boosting his ego by demonstrating his devastating trading prowess. As you suggest, any profits and costs would be insignificant in comparison to a good trader's earnings.

Who's Harr? Is he going to be thrown in free?

In my view a properly rounded course would include Dancing Girls at hourly intervals to allow delegates to fully relax and properly absorb the information on offer. Holding the course in Amsterdam would allow for delegates to light up (complimentary) spliffs and so check out their ability to see whole new patterns in their charts. Secker's courses apparently now include mutual shoulder-massage sessions, I'm sure there's scope to expand on this: Delegates should assist each other to "Enter the Zone" with reflexology, aromatherapy, and perhaps mutual acupuncture on each other's wrists to fend off repetitive strain injury from excessive mousing.

Tell me it's not really this easy, is it?

Of course it's not that easy!

I disagree with the teacher doing it for the love of it. IMO Free lessons are not as appreciated as ones which are paid for. And from the tutor's point of view he wants a student that has real seriousness of intent and one of the ways of ascertaining this is through payment.

Also IMO it is a fallacious argument that those who teach have to prove their worth on the field. There are many recognised gurus in all walks of life who haven't necessarily won the US Open ex. David Leadbetter and Nick Bolitieri but produce winners year after year. IMO the best teachers attract the best students because the best students actively seek them out while the no hopers and also-rans whinge when success isn't handed to them on a plate. Everyday the media reinforces this ridiculous illusion that any schmuck with no talent can be a famous celebrity and have instant success with no effort required.

Another possible option is for the tutor to offer a consultation lesson at a reduced rate and then the student and teacher can make up their own minds whether they wish to proceed.

There is an example on one of the current threads where valuable knowledge is being offered by the tutor and the student will not make the leap required that any knowledge worth having must be earned and discovered when the student is ready to receive it. I repeat, It cannot be handed on a plate for any price and be of lasting value.

 

[dbphoenix]

Also IMO it is a fallacious argument that those who teach have to prove their worth on the field. There are many recognised gurus in all walks of life who haven't necessarily won the US Open

Some of the friction here has to do with goals. Does the student want to learn how to trade? Or does the student want to learn to trade like the teacher trades? If the latter, and if the teacher expects money, then of course the student can expect some evidence that the teacher is a profitable trader (whether or not he is also a competent teacher is another issue). If the former, it really doesn't matter whether or not the teacher is a profitable trader or even if he trades at all (witness those who think Van Tharp is the greatest thing since storebought soap even though Tharp is not a trader).

All of which is why a meeting of the minds prior to any exchange of money is extremely important. There should be a written agreement between the two so that each understands exactly what the other expects and exactly what the other is willing to offer. Many students romp around the message boards screaming of being cheated when all they were guaranteed from the outset was a chair and possibly a donut or two.

Db

 

[peto]

Of course it's not that easy!

I disagree with the teacher doing it for the love of it. .

Actually I was making an (evidently poor) attempt at irony; following from posts 6, 7 and 8 above. In fact I agree that a good teacher has every right to request payment for their services. However there there are those who would take financial advantage of the rose-tinted spectacles of many aspirants, justifying their high fees for basic knowledge and unprofitable strategies masquerading as "secrets" with the lure of untold riches to be creamed off the markets. There are also those who give freely of their time and knowledge to help others, I applaud them.

Also IMO it is a fallacious argument that those who teach have to prove their worth on the field. There are many recognised gurus in all walks of life who haven't necessarily won the US Open ex. David Leadbetter and Nick Bolitieri but produce winners year after year..

...Does the student want to learn how to trade? .... If [so], it really doesn't matter whether or not the teacher is a profitable trader or even if he trades at all (witness ...Van Tharp ...).
Db

I'm not sure the sporting analogy holds well. A sporting coach may not be able to win the U.S. open because of their physique or stature or age or stamina, yet be able to coach others to. Trading is a cerebral activity however. If the teacher is to coach the student into learning how to trade, then surely possession of the first-hand knowledge of having been through this process himself would be most valuable.

Van Tharp it seems spent 10 years interviewing and studying successful traders, and gets his kicks from teaching and writing. Thus he has (apparently) established his credibility without recourse to demonstrating his trading ability making him rather the exception to the rule. I think most novice aspirants have great trouble detecting the difference between the clever marketing and hype of the charlatan, versus the genuine credibility of a good teacher. The demonstration of the ability to trade profitably is at least a form of tangible evidence which the teacher may be prepared to provide and the student may derive some reassurance from.

pete

 

[rols]

Actually I was making an (evidently poor) attempt at irony; following from posts 6, 7 and 8 above. In fact I agree that a good teacher has every right to request payment for their services. However there there are those who would take financial advantage of the rose-tinted spectacles of many aspirants, justifying their high fees for basic knowledge and unprofitable strategies masquerading as "secrets" with the lure of untold riches to be creamed off the markets. There are also those who give freely of their time and knowledge to help others, I applaud them.


I'm not sure the sporting analogy holds well. A sporting coach may not be able to win the U.S. open because of their physique or stature or age or stamina, yet be able to coach others to. Trading is a cerebral activity however. If the teacher is to coach the student into learning how to trade, then surely possession of the first-hand knowledge of having been through this process himself would be most valuable.

Van Tharp it seems spent 10 years interviewing and studying successful traders, and gets his kicks from teaching and writing. Thus he has (apparently) established his credibility without recourse to demonstrating his trading ability making him rather the exception to the rule. I think most novice aspirants have great trouble detecting the difference between the clever marketing and hype of the charlatan, versus the genuine credibility of a good teacher. The demonstration of the ability to trade profitably is at least a form of tangible evidence which the teacher may be prepared to provide and the student may derive some reassurance from.

pete

In many high achievement occupations such as sports and music to name but two, a successful careerist quite often feels the need to give back the benefit of his insights into excellence through teaching after reaching a certain age. This is accepted practise. However in trading this seems to be less the case. It seems, traders who have made squillions, probably for good reason wish to remain anonymous. Does anybody know of any genuinely retired successful traders who mentor or teach out of a true sense of altruism?

 

[dbphoenix]

I'm not sure the sporting analogy holds well. A sporting coach may not be able to win the U.S. open because of their physique or stature or age or stamina, yet be able to coach others to. Trading is a cerebral activity however. If the teacher is to coach the student into learning how to trade, then surely possession of the first-hand knowledge of having been through this process himself would be most valuable.

Van Tharp it seems spent 10 years interviewing and studying successful traders, and gets his kicks from teaching and writing. Thus he has (apparently) established his credibility without recourse to demonstrating his trading ability making him rather the exception to the rule. I think most novice aspirants have great trouble detecting the difference between the clever marketing and hype of the charlatan, versus the genuine credibility of a good teacher. The demonstration of the ability to trade profitably is at least a form of tangible evidence which the teacher may be prepared to provide and the student may derive some reassurance from.

pete

You may have a point that having gone through the process of trading, or at least learning how to trade, may be prerequisite for teaching somebody else how to do so.

However, Tharp is not an exception, nor has he demonstrated any credibility at all with regard to trading prowess. But then Tharp does not teach traders how to trade; rather he addresses certain specific issues which are common to traders in trouble. Whether his counsel with regard to those issues is in itself credible or beneficial is another matter.

Again, learning how to trade does not mean learning somebody's system any more than learning how to paint means mimicking Rembrandt, or learning how to design a building means mimicking Wright. One needn't be a genius in order to design a system. But, with rare exceptions, that's not what those who flock to the courses and seminars and chatrooms are interested in. They're interested in calls and in being told where to enter and exit. And that's why they're so often dissatisfied.

Db

 

[peto]

In many high achievement occupations such as sports and music to name but two, a successful careerist quite often feels the need to give back the benefit of his insights into excellence through teaching after reaching a certain age. This is accepted practise. However in trading this seems to be less the case. It seems, traders who have made squillions, probably for good reason wish to remain anonymous. Does anybody know of any genuinely retired successful traders who mentor or teach out of a true sense of altruism?

Charitable donations seem to be the more common result of altruism. Warren Buffet recently donated several squillion, and our own mr marcus recently mentioned a substantial charitable involvement.
Indulgently dreaming for a moment, I 'd love to be in a position to do both, i.e. encourage / coach students who seemed likely to contribute some of their resultant gains to those for whom filling the family rice bowl tomorrow is a more pressing problem than creating a trading account.

 

[Lightning McQueen]

Charitable donations seem to be the more common result of altruism. Warren Buffet recently donated several squillion, and our own mr marcus recently mentioned a substantial charitable involvement.
Indulgently dreaming for a moment, I 'd love to be in a position to do both, i.e. encourage / coach students who seemed likely to contribute some of their resultant gains to those for whom filling the family rice bowl tomorrow is a more pressing problem than creating a trading account.

Hi peto
Your wish is not far away if cardinal is still interested

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=20789