Trading Arcades have had their day

[weakpunter]

I want to make a point to all that read this thread that typical prop trading arcades without naming any names have had their day, most experienced intraday traders have drastically cut down their daily trading volumes and so the need for very competetive round turns is just not there anymore, putting 10k sterling or so down, paying 2500 pounds per month desk fees giving away a 20/30 % split in order to gain cheaper commissions and get 4 :1 leverage
is ridiculous , there are many FCM´s that give 4:1 leverage take no split and charge
a fraction more for round turns and give you x trader and such at cost price again not naming any names! unlike the mark ups for desk fees and equipment the arcades get away with, net net your better off with an FCM than an arcade that is if you are experienced and not looking for a grad spot, most of my fellow friends and traders who have been around the markets for the last 15 or so years have gone from trading spreads in large clips in stirs and fixed income 200 -1000 lot clips are now trading different time frames and more like 5 - 50 lot clips depending on contract ,so if your doing less than 10,000 lots/sides per month which many are .I personally have gone from 50,000 lots per month to sometimes 5000 a month. Iam at an FCM, and there is no comparison , the customer service is superior in every aspect, I can draw on my profits instantly without having to chase the governor round the room for 2 weeks to get my profits they treat me with total respect and I get the same leverage that I would in an arcade with any platform I want at cost price and give no split on my profits, why on earth would you want to be at an arcade when there are so many better options, final bit of food for thought most arcades are trying to diversify into broking and such as their traders are not doing the kind of volume they did in the heyday 1999-2007 and it is nigh on impossible to get a backed deal ,whilst 6 years ago more or less anyone could have got a deal, basically people dont be lazy or stubborn have a look and shop around , you´ll be surprised for the kind of trading you are doing arcades are as useful as tits on a bull your wasting money, there are other options.( NB I will not slate any firms in name or promote anyones services so dont ask me to)

 

[gmarx]

Weakpunter,

Do you really get 4: 1 at an FCM ? Iam trading bobl´s outright at an arcade in the city I put down ten grand last year with a well known prop house last year and know what you mean about the costs Iam paying about 2000 grand a month desk fees and for xtrader and give a 30% split to the firm ive got 30 bobls for my 10 k, and do about 2500 RT´s a month. after making 6 k last month I was left with about 2700 quid . are you trying to say Iam wasting money?

 

[mkyfutures]

I too am trading at an arcade in the City and pay just short of 2k per month which I get desk front end xtrader and cqg. I feel like im paying too much and am looking for alternatives at the moment am interested in your post and agree that they appear to have had their day.

 

[weakpunter]

Gmarx,
Look mate dont take offence but just try taking your head out of the sand and look further than arcades as a vehicle for your trading , if you want me to tell you that your wasting money then all I can say is yes you are, I put down 10 k sterling with an FCM and have got 30 bunds which is more than your 30 bobls and my xtrader cost is 500 quid and I dont give a split I probably pay 20 or 30 cents more than you in comms which makes no difference really if your doing less than 5000 sides per month , do the sums Iam up about 2-3 grand on you based on your costs if I have roughly the same p&l

 

[weakpunter]

I too am trading at an arcade in the City and pay just short of 2k per month which I get desk front end xtrader and cqg. I feel like im paying too much and am looking for alternatives at the moment am interested in your post and agree that they appear to have had their day.

mkyfutures,

Thats pretty much the sum of it I think mate , I spent 13 years at arcades and just switched to an FCM last year and my first thoughts were that after chopping my volume right down in 2007 I worked out that I had probably given away 60-70 grand over the last 2 years needlessly to arcades for supposed leverage which was not any better than an FCM could give me, So dont be frightened of change arcades arent what theyre cracked up to be especially after so many went under in 07 , they chopped back on the limits for everyone and rightly so but in that case , it dosent make any sense paying the extra for me anymore...........shop around mate.

 

[just21]

If anybody is looking for low cost office space in central London on a co-op, non profit making basis, see this thread.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/trading-arcades/87200-trading-premises-mayfair-update.html

 

[N Rothschild]

loving all the 1 post wonders in this thread

 

[PualoP]

Check this out:
http://www.tradewithvelocity.com/commissions/product-commissions.aspx?productID=220

For your 10K you could get 20 bobl, 100% split, and TT for £500 (although I think it's over rated by miles now. Was the top dog 5 years ago but Ninja Trader easily competes when doing out rights and is excellent vale at $60 a month)

Other benifits include no commute, no need to 'rent' the hardware (don't know if they still do this), instant withdrawls, greater acces to different marekts, 24 hour trading.

I'm personally with Mirus but the costs are about the same for most brokers. For other firms check out:
http://classic.mirusfutures.com/
http://www.advantagefutures.com/Home.html
http://www.globalfutures.com/index.asp
http://www.infinitybrokerage.com/

 

[weakpunter]

Pualop,

Yes, what you say is true you definately dont have to be restricted to TT xtrader
the options are vast , I personally use TT x-trader out of choice your just
adding even more credence to my argument that Trading Arcades are limited and well
overrated....... if you traders dont care about x trader then they can trade with zero
platform fees , bottom line is arcades are a total waste of money, time and time again
you´ll here some inexperienced traders say "I want to be able to communicate with
traders around me blah bla blah" well the truth is if people are making money and are
busy in the markets they havent got the time or desire to talk or help you lol"
Ive been around so many Arcades in the city and seen younger or smaller traders get told
to sod off, lots of inexperienced traders think because they are giving a split the
company has a vested interest in you.....wake up its bollo%% the only thing that is
worth anything to anyone is your commission generated and if thats the case then you
might aswell give it to the guys that will give you the best service not an Arcade! I
recently visited an old pal who runs the programm at one of the most respectable
arcades in the square mile and he said he couldnt give a monkeys about your split
the split so to say exists in order for the houses to pool your funds together into non
segregated accounts and achieve better financial status, thats why if you approach
an Arcade and say you want a 100% no split seg account you will be told 25 k sterling
minimum, because they cant lump your money together then to satisfy their margin
requirements, go to an FCM and they will start with as little 5 grand or ten depending
what you want! Some of you Arcadites actually think theyre gonna give you a 300 lot
with 5 grand in your account if you think that your buzzing on drugs. Stop giving them
money for old rope if anything will give even a lesser experienced trader a fighting
chance ....................its having smaller costs for a start!!!

 

[gmarx]

WP,

I contacted an FCM and it appears that your right on those figures, am feeling a tad
sick actually, what are they like though if your having a down day, do you have a daily
stop agreed with them like at an arcade or what?

 

[PualoP]

WP,

I contacted an FCM and it appears that your right on those figures, am feeling a tad
sick actually, what are they like though if your having a down day, do you have a daily
stop agreed with them like at an arcade or what?

No, there's no risk manager watching over your trading. You can blow your entire account on 1 trade if you wish. The only time that you won't be able to trade is when you don't have enough margin in your account to open a 1 lot.

 

[weakpunter]

gmarx,

Thats right basically they let you get on with it, Iam sure if youve got any brains
you will allocate a daily stop for yourself and trade with the scruples you should or would do anywhere else but pualop is right they let you get on with it anywhich way you see fit
and dont hold your hand, if you want to burst a tyre one one trade the choice is yours,but you wont be stopped from trading till youve run out of money,but personally for me that suits me much better than some dopey risk manager at an arcade imposing his view on me , Iam big and ugly enough to do it for myself and if I cant do that I probably shouldnt be trading anyway.

 

[weakpunter]

No, there's no risk manager watching over your trading. You can blow your entire account on 1 trade if you wish. The only time that you won't be able to trade is when you don't have enough margin in your account to open a 1 lot.

Paulop,

Did you used to be at an arcade too in the old days?

 

[spreader01]

I too am being fleeced at a prop shop,

Sorry for my ignorance but can anyone please tell me what FCM is?

Is it Futures commision merchant?

 

[gmarx]

spreader01,

Join the club lol, yeah its a futures commissions merchant.
your not the only one, seems like we all are beeing fleeced
it looks like we are paying them so they can have a posh
address in the city at our expense, have been feeling like
a wally for most of the weekend.

 

[pboyles]

Excuse my ignorance but how does a FCM differ from a futures broker that offers low intraday margin eg $500 on the ES? Isnt that a form of credit given that the exchange requirements for margin are higher? I see some FCMs are brokers.


http://www.futuressourcebook.com/Brokers-Advisors/Futures-Commission-Merchants-ct75456.htm

 

[spreader01]

spreader01,

Join the club lol, yeah its a futures commissions merchant.
your not the only one, seems like we all are beeing fleeced
it looks like we are paying them so they can have a posh
address in the city at our expense, have been feeling like
a wally for most of the weekend.

Where are you based Gmarx?

Have you read the post on the Mayfair office space? I may be interested in this, have spoke with T/T and STS + cqg already and to be honest, it would prob work out alot cheaper (this is all dependent on getting decent rt costs riding on the back of my selected clearers volume of course!)

 

[weakpunter]

pboyles,

Yes some are brokers , but some without mentioning names have cottoned on to the Uk
style arcade model and are basically offering services for pro or high frequency traders AKA day traders scalpers etc and they dont deal with the retail business such as a famous top world broker would, they offer specific services to the type of trader you´d find in an arcade......to me it personally looks like the FCM´s have taken a look at the Arcades and are going after their business, well theyve succeeded in luring me over to them and I´ll bet loads more will follow soon once people start realising what can be had elsewhere

 

[gmarx]

Where are you based Gmarx?

Have you read the post on the Mayfair office space? I may be interested in this, have spoke with T/T and STS + cqg already and to be honest, it would prob work out alot cheaper (this is all dependent on getting decent rt costs riding on the back of my selected clearers volume of course!)

Spreader01,

Iam near liverpool st. Ive just had a brainwave if all of us exploited traders get into an office together and combine our lots with an FCM then not only will we pay less for platforms but we´ll prob get our commisions down to the same or less than we are currently paying at arcades!!!

 

[spreader01]

Spreader01,

Iam near liverpool st. Ive just had a brainwave if all of us exploited traders get into an office together and combine our lots with an FCM then not only will we pay less for platforms but we´ll prob get our commisions down to the same or less than we are currently paying at arcades!!!

Hi Gmarx

Yes I am on the same wavelength Gmarx,

I am also talking with 4 other traders who are genuinely open to this,

2 who are ready to be in place at any time and 2 who will have to serve a months notice + myself,

I have emailed Meanreversion about his space in Mayfair meanwhile, the 4 that are there already + the potential group of 4-6 of us and possibly what other traders wish to be involved could be a good move,

(to others reading this post from the sidelines, please only post if you are in a position to move offices in the immediate future and are a genuinely serious trader looking to share offices)