Steve Nison's response to Massey University Research

hanzam

Junior member
Messages
18
Likes
7
The author used definitions of candlestick signals without validating how correct these signals are. Just because candle signals are on a software package does not make them correct. For example, for a hammer, there are four rules:



1. The color of the real body can be black or white.

2. A bullish long lower shadow that is at least twice the height of the real body.

3. It should have no, or a very short, upper shadow.

4. The market must be in a downtrend



Rules 1 and 2 are easy to quantify. But how was rule 3 defined (i.e., what was the maximum length of the upper shadow for this to be defined as a hammer)? Or rule 4? How was a down trend defined? A candle signal needs two criteria. The first is the shape of the line, the second is the trend. Thus, if there is no down trend there is no hammer—even if the shape of the line looks like a hammer.



The most serious error was basing the success of a candle signal on what happened the next session. Whether one trades based on a candle signal should be fully dependent on the risk/ reward of the potential trade. This means that one should have a stop and a price target before placing a trade, and not just buying or selling because there is a candle signal. For instance, a stop should be placed under the low of a hammer line. Unless one has a target that is a multiple of this risk, a trade should not be initiated and the hammer should not be used to buy.



At my seminars I have a series of pivotal rules. One of the most important is, “Not every candle signal should be used to buy or sell—always first consider the risk/reward.” And this article doesn’t take this vital risk/reward aspect into account. As such there are many times when a candle signal should be ignored. This study was based on just blindly buying or selling on every candle signal. Using a candle signal to trade without considering the risk/reward is like, as the Japanese proverb states, “leaning a ladder against the clouds.” This is why we have our DVD workshop series which shows how to combine candle charts with Western tools and most importantly money management. Using candles in isolation is the major mistake most traders make and that is why we emphasize the importance of correct education.



Steve Nison, CMT

President- CANDLECHARTS.COM
 
The author used definitions of candlestick signals without validating how correct these signals are. Just because candle signals are on a software package does not make them correct. For example, for a hammer, there are four rules:



1. The color of the real body can be black or white.

2. A bullish long lower shadow that is at least twice the height of the real body.

3. It should have no, or a very short, upper shadow.

4. The market must be in a downtrend



Rules 1 and 2 are easy to quantify. But how was rule 3 defined (i.e., what was the maximum length of the upper shadow for this to be defined as a hammer)? Or rule 4? How was a down trend defined? A candle signal needs two criteria. The first is the shape of the line, the second is the trend. Thus, if there is no down trend there is no hammer—even if the shape of the line looks like a hammer.

All four points are easy to quantify. Choose whatever figure you like for the wick - say < 5% of the body and a figure for the tail. Stick a linear regression line through the price series to get trend.

You don't need any money management or risk/reward analysis to see if the entry has any edge. Just look at the price 1, 2, 3 ... 10 days ahead. Do this for example over all the stocks of the SPX and calculate some stats. Run this over several years through bull and bear markets.

I did this myself a few years ago, and couldn't find any edge, despite the fact that it is no problem at all to find any number of nice looking charts with a bounce off a hammer. The eye often sees what it wants to see and ignores the the cases it doesn't want to see. We are all guilty of this.

Even stick in a couple of degrees of freedom and allow optimization over the wick size and number of bars for the linear regression line, and I doubt you will find any edge.

I don't find the response very convincing - given that the suggestion was to buy his CDs and attend his seminars.
 
Yes,

I think that, based on steve's response one might as well say "ignore the candlestick pattern, calculate all the rest of the stuff and take the trade."

As a trade with the trend, buy the pullback to the mas, calculate the risk reward type of trader it would be the first time I've agreed with Steve since I (as a newbie) paid a hundred bucks odd for his second book. I still own it but would have to dig deep to find it (when I tossed out the trading with chaos type books I thought that the heavy price of Steve's book justified it being held for a paper weight or something).
 
I use a candle stick chart for my trading and agree with Steve. Probably (I don't know for sure), many people enter a trade blindly, just because a signal is thrown up. Risk/reward ALWAYS comes into my calculation. I must know how much of my hard earned profits could be lost on this, one, trade. I haven't, always, followed this procedure and have seen a week's profits blown away by one lousy trade on Friday!

That said, I'm not a devout follower of all the funny names attached to candlestick analysis. I find the red and white bodies of the candle very convenient to spot what I am looking for, but have never read more than a chapter by Jack Schwager on the subject.

Maybe I should have.

Split
 
Aren't we suppose to interpret a candlestick formation in terms of the psychology that created the formation rather than trading a formation as a pretty pattern?
 
Candlesticks depict traders actions and behaviour in a past trading session or sessions, they provide with a visual picture of trading action which has ocurred. How can we as traders use candles to predict prices in the future?
 
I have read almost all of Steve Nisons books and bought his DVD workshops.

I've been burnt quite a lot with candles and have learnt that never trade against the trend. Given that candles are trend reversal signals, you are fighting against the wind, or more brutally standing in front of a train!

However, having said that, I don't regret my venture into candlesticks and believe if applied properly for subtrends (for eg, if you get a hammer in a short term down trend but the long term (weekly) trend is still bullish), they will be very helpful.
 
Hi DDI,

A good point. If you use extreme points, you are trading against the trend.. It does not have to be that way, though, does it? You can decide that a new trend is underway later on in the development of the pattern and trade on a pullback, if you wish.

Candles give the information. How it is interpreted is the trader's business.

Split
 
Top