Spread Betting for a living

[Creech]

Hi everyone...first time poster here.

Ive been reading up on SB here and ive got a few comments.

1) Why is everyone so against SB? I know it says "betting" but surely thats a good thing as its tax free!

2) Everyone seems to say its gambling as it says 'betting' but the thing is it mimics the real markets. When the market goes up/down so do the SB prices. According to those who say its gambling then surely they think dealing directly with the financial markets is gambling. Of course you can treat it as gambling but thats why they all lose!

3) SB Co's are FSA regulated so surely that means they cant cheat you? Unless im being a bit naive...so please tell me if so.

4) IMO all the losers (97% i heard!) are the ones who go in 'all guns blazing'. They're the ones who have never picked up a book on TA, are not disciplined, dont have a plan, and most of all are greedy. With this attitude is it really a surprise they dont win!

5) Reiterating the above - if you use TA, are disciplined, have a plan and are not greedy then you should be ok

"Buy the fear, sell the greed" (Trader Mag, cant remember the guy who said it!)"

 

[goldfish]

Hi Creech

It's seems obvious that you have never had a SB account. Try it and you will answer all your own questions, just be sure to start small.

It's not the fact that it's labelled as betting that causes people to dislike it, but more due to the bias and other little tricks that SB companies use to remove your money from you like hitting targets where lots of members have their stop loss etc.

Remember their profits come from your losses. SB can however prove a useful tool when swing trading and can be a good intro to trading, but it’s a bit unreliable for anything more short term IMO

 

[JonnyT]

You can make a living from Spreadbetting providing you keep your trades down and look for bigger moves over a day or more.

For instance Cable Trader has averaged 20 pips per day over 15 months and can easily be applied (in fact I do apply) via a spreadbet account.

JonnyT

 

[Creech]

I have used SB before and i lost. But i lost due to all the reasons i stated. I never had a plan and didnt use TA. Most of the time i guessed and thought i knew it all. I used FS and have to agree that theyre platform is cr*p and crashed alot of times. Thankfully i lost what i could afford but i could also have made a heck of alot more if i was'nt so greedy.

This was about a year ago. Since then ive learnt from my mistakes and ive read up on TA and all the rest to go with it. I want to get back into it in the next few months. Obviously if i was a 'big player' i would go direct and use what the pro's use but i havent yet (i hope!) reached that stage yet. I just feel SB opens up alot more markets to a trader just starting out.

However, i am a bit concerned about alot of the SB systems crashing and messing up especially since i want to go with Deal4Free!

 

[Creech]

Yeah JonnyT i want to start cable trading (mainly) and i think i could average 10 points a day min and thats all thats needed to make a living...i think thats realistic. Of course theres going to be bad and good days, but as long as your disciplined and have a plan then i cannot see why it will not work?

 

[JonnyT]

You need a back tested proven strategy...

JonnyT

 

[Creech]

sorry for my ignorance but what do you mean by "back tested"? I can use my logic here but i would sound pretty dumb if im wrong.

Im getting back into it prob in October so im doing all my research and planning now.

What data feeds do you use JonnyT?

 

[stevet]

back testing is hope over reality, where historic data is used to prove a trading methodology, but normally without awareness of understanding liquidity and the ability to obtain fills

a back tested proven strategy is for most just another way to lose money - but 3 years full time trading may put you on the first rung of the ladder to be a successful trader and to know the dangers inherent in back testing

 

[JonnyT]

The point is you need a strategy.

If you enter the market without a strategy you will not be trading in 3 years time.

Back testing doesn't prove anything but if you follow a system you will learn the discipline required when you do go via your own devised methods.

JonnyT

 

[Creech]

Ok thanks i get it. I totally agree with what your both saying. Ive had first hand experience of not having a stategy and thats why i failed....and thats why alot of people fail.

 

[techst]

I use CFD's for my trading and find the product works for me. You may need a certain minimum amount of cash in your account for it, but you may not it depends who your trade with. It's considered the big daddy of Spread Betting and being a swing/positon trader i find this product suits my needs. Allowing me to go short as well as long. Might be worth a look..

 

[Creech]

Thanks thats something that i havent really looked at in depth but ill do some research into it.

 

[stevet]

not having a strategy is the best chance anyone starting out has of being successful - since even if you were handed "a gold plated 100% cant get it wrong it strategy" on a plate - you would still screw it up when you are starting out

the only way to stand a chance of being successful is to accept that you dont have a clue about trading and its gonna take one to two years of full time day in day out market analyis and trading to get to a point where you might be able to make it - you should be making breakeven/profit in year 2 and making money in year 3 - if not - write your losses off and go for an easy job - like a brain surgeon - you wont make as much money as you would trading - but its a lot easier to learn to be a brain surgeon - all the best!

 

[anley]

Creech

'If I could make 10 points a day'

That's what most people think when they start out, looks easy but's almost impossible for a spread better. Try for yourself and then you'll soon see. Then in 6-12 months time you'll have a wry smile when someone else posts a 'should be able to make 10 points a day' type thread.

Not having a go at you but ask yourself why there are many professional traders in the UK trading cash, futures, CFDs etc (and paying their taxes) but very very few professional spread betters.

In my opinion Spread bets are only good for a few things, the occasional punt, learning all about trading (while risking a few hundred pounds) or longer term trades lasting at least a few weeks if not many months. In the last 2 spread bet trades I did one lasted 3 months and the other is still open which I put on about a year ago.

 

[ChartMan]

3) SB Co's are FSA regulated so surely that means they cant cheat you? Unless im being a bit naive...so please tell me if so.

You can't be SERIOUS? IMO they will squeeze whatever they honestly can out of you, relying on small print when you complain "U was robbed". Not all SB's are the same.

Apart from that, I can't see any reason why you can't make a living from SB. It might be hard, it might be problematic. With over 200 points swing on the dow today, how hard was it to make a few points? Even with SB.OK OK so it was an exceptional day today. But that's what helps to keep the losses from hurting the bank acount.

 

[anley]

Top high street named brokers/houses etc are all heavily regulated, and they steal, cheat and skim their clients everyday of the week. That's basically how the financial markets work - always have, always will.

Creech, do yourself a big favour, open an account with Finspreads.com and deposit £100-£500 then try and obtain your goals. You'll see what we all mean.

Edited by chartman- removed specific company names.

 

[MysticalTrader]

OK, call me paranoid but this is ringing some bells.

care to PM me and give me some further details?

MT

Top high street named brokers/houses etc are all heavily regulated, and they steal, cheat and skim their clients everyday of the week. That's basically how the financial markets work - always have, always will.

Creech, do yourself a big favour, open an account with Finspreads.com and deposit £100-£500 then try and obtain your goals. You'll see what we all mean.

Edited by chartman- removed specific company names.

 

[nicolas500]

I'm no expert and have only been spreadbetting for a few months. Lost a bit at the beginning but now evening out. I've found that I've been most successful when I've focused upon areas where I have reasonable access to relevant and reliable information (i.e. oil mainly, currencies occasionally) or where making money is a no brainer (e.g. M & S recently, Cairn Energy, etc.) I haven't got a clue about indices (just seem too unpredictable) and so ignore them. I would also suggest limiting your bets to small amounts, at first, and for God's sake, use stop losses. Also be careful about overnight bets, particularly with U.S. stocks, where extended training can often result in significant drops at the opening bell (witness eBay and Yahoo recently). Guaranteed stop losses can avoid this. In terms of brokers, I mainly use Deal4Free, due primarily to their requiring lower margins. Have not had any problems with them so far, perhaps because I only deal in small amounts. No problems with them having widened their spreads so as to activate a stop loss. Also use Financial Spreads for shares not covered by Deal4Free, but only rarely. Again, no problems.

I know that this is basic stuff but hope that it provides some help.

 

[Buk]

agree, SB's are geared more towards swing/position trading & can form an important part of a traders (collective) arsenal....but I guess it comes down to the instrument(s) you trade as to whether it's possible to attain consistant gains via this method....as with any platform, it's the 'tradesman' not his tools which will determine the outcome re: profit/loss.....I use SB's as well as brokers for my intraday play's on the Forex, as do one or two others on a regular basis. They're simply another tool in the kitbag, and utilised sensibly (with a proven & workable strat), offer good consistant profit potential.

 

[TheBramble]

I have reasonable access to relevant and reliable information (i.e. oil mainly, currencies occasionally) or where making money is a no brainer (e.g. M & S recently, Cairn Energy, etc.)

When you say access to relevant and reliable information, do you have an 'inside' feed or do you mean the news?

I'm interested if it's the generally available news to find out (before the markets open this morning) how you feel M&S will respond today. I don't trade UK stocks, but I did wonder last night how quickly (a) how quick would be the reaction to the bid withdrawal and (b) which net direction would win out.

As with all news, I think it can go either way. In M&S' case - either power down as the withdrawal of Green's offer is interpreted as a 'bad' thing for investors long term or (b) move on up as punters feel the current board will have to pull out all the stops to make the shares worth more than Green's offer over the long term.