Shaolin Spread education

[mauzj]

Any idea what this course entails?

I'm almost tempted, except the chances are that everything they teach could be written on half a side of A4.

Anyway, I already know the basics and can pull up all the Euribor spreads on my trading machine tomorrow morning. the problem is that I don't really know what this sort of spread trading involves.

If anyone could give me any tips to spark off some ideas I'd be very greatful.



This two-week course specialises in the theory and practice of trading butterfly, condor and box strategies in the STIR (Short Term Interest Rate) markets for profit.

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Training is undertaken within a ‘professional’ team with full supervision and tuition. Participants will attend daily training sessions and have the chance to put theory to practice each day by trading the market through ‘live simulators’ under the guidance of existing traders.
The all-inclusive price for the two-week course, including desk, pc, trading software and tuition is £995

All candidates will receive a completion certificate and the highest performing trainees will be offered a place within the team with Shaolin arranging £2000 towards each new trader’s costs.

The two courses are scheduled for:

1. November 2006 14th – 25th (10 places)
2. December 2006 5th – 16th (10 places)
To apply for this course, or to come and visit our offices:

 

[charliechan]

lol - stay away!!

in other words, they are asking you to cough up £1k for an interview. this is great for them as it covers their risk and time, while also gives them a whole week to make sure they can pick the right candidate at your expense.

(only a real trader could dream up such a risk free scam that plays on the markets sentiment/greed [grad intake] pool of wannabee traders )

i guarantee that what ever you learn there will be obsolete outside an arcade environment - and other arcades will teach you this stuff for free.

tell them your time is valuable and you will attend a whole weeks intensive interview if they pay YOU £1k as you have other interviews at other arcades that you will have to sacrifice. believe me, they will respect you more for that!!!

 

[mikeyk]

charlie chan is right stay well away. They're taking the **** and probably wont teach you anyhting you dont know already.

 

[Directional]

Shaolin is run by Arjun Rose formely of Candlestick Trading Co if I recall correctly, and they clear through Schnieder's as a trading associate. Check the commissions. No point trying to learn exotic spreads like fly's on fly's, condors or box's if your cost of putting the spread on is more than the half tick you'll get out of it.

 

[newwizard]

I trained with Shaolin in Manchester for a month, actually very good training and I'm trading profitably now from home (through them). 1k is not a lot of money if you are a trader, you guys probably need to concentrate more on the markets rather than discussion boards if you want to be traders. If I was to teach somebody what I do now I'd charge a fortune!!

 

[Mpoufos]

I trained with Shaolin in Manchester for a month, actually very good training and I'm trading profitably now from home (through them). 1k is not a lot of money if you are a trader, you guys probably need to concentrate more on the markets rather than discussion boards if you want to be traders. If I was to teach somebody what I do now I'd charge a fortune!!

Haha good point newwizard. I also trade with Shaolin futures and this is the exact point that everybody is missing. Lets make smth straight, there are hundreds of arcades out there that work on the 8/10 rule. They offer you a small salary and by the end of 3-4 months they have already shorted the "consistent" ones. This is not the case with shaolin. Their aim is to keep all the traders that they take in and create a small elite team in the STIR market. When I took the big hit as a newbie these guys were above my head until I was able to regain all my confidence back. Anyway I had the same problem when I was looking for a trading job. Iwas browsing through threads reading stuff like " be careful", "stay away" and by all means there are arcades like these, BUT I found out that at the end of the day it doesnt matter in which prop or arcade firm you are in. It is the willingness that should drive your every step and you shouldnt get misled by crappy threads with monkeys that have nothing to prove. And again if you want to ask someone why dont you ask them. Cant you use your own judgement or do u trust every guy in here that may had a bad day or he may have heard some **** from someone else that his aunt told him. Its just my belief that are many people in here that have a wrong opinion about arcades.

And let me ask smth else to all these pros that are trading from home or IB's or whatever. How do u expect for a recent uni graduate with 0 yrs of experience to follow a career in trading. Do u think that its just easy to get into an IB graduate programme or do you think that every newbie just sets up his own trading machine from home. These eras are over. Everybody should have his own mentor especially in the early stages. I understand that all the pros have been equiped with all the traits of a successful trader but nobody can be borned just like that. This is what these arcades do. They equip you with all the necessary experience and if you are really determined, disciplned and patient you might be able to follow your own path.

Bottom line, shaolin doesnt take 30 or 40 candidates and then it just keeps the 4-5 best of them. They dont want guys like "ehmm and when will I make money", or "will I make it"? They just want guys that are really determined had done their resaerch on trading know the consequences and the pros of it and they are really sure that this is what they want to do. This is why they are doing it this way. As for the training I personally believe its more effective than any other prop shops that i ve been, but thats just my personal opinion. Hope that answered a few of your questions.

Thanks

 

[mikeyk]

I have first hand experienec of the guy who runs/owns shaolin?? Yes he did go down the route of take on ten see what sticks, yes you did get rinsed on commisons, no they didn't teach you **** all. To be fair to the above posters i have nothing to do with shaolin but by the sounds of it things haven't changed much, if anyhting its got worse.

Mauzj, at then end of the day its your choice, just make sure you know what your getting yourself into and educate yourself fully before making any decions, then again it could be the best move you make.

 

[Mpoufos]

I have first hand experienec of the guy who runs/owns shaolin?? Yes he did go down the route of take on ten see what sticks, yes you did get rinsed on commisons, no they didn't teach you **** all. To be fair to the above posters i have nothing to do with shaolin but by the sounds of it things haven't changed much, if anyhting its got worse.

Mauzj, at then end of the day its your choice, just make sure you know what your getting yourself into and educate yourself fully before making any decions, then again it could be the best move you make.

Expain a little but please what do you mean you had first hand experience. Did you ever trade or apply to shaolin futures. Cause I think in order to form an opinion there should be some facts right? So what is your experience or relationship with shaolin futures.

 

[newwizard]

Mikey, get over it.... they're hiring at maccy ds....

 

[Mpoufos]

Shaolin is run by Arjun Rose formely of Candlestick Trading Co if I recall correctly, and they clear through Schnieder's as a trading associate. Check the commissions. No point trying to learn exotic spreads like fly's on fly's, condors or box's if your cost of putting the spread on is more than the half tick you'll get out of it.

Arb emm and what would you do with someone new into the game. You would just let him trader outrights in order to save some commisions. besides there is a new programme in liffe where combined with the low comissions of the arcade and the rebates we end up paying around 25p/lot. kinky?

 

[Directional]

i never said anything about the training or expressed an opinion on the company. I said what I said which was check the commissions, as they are particularly relevant when trading spreads to get onto flys, or more complicated spreads.

if what you say is correct, then it doesnt sound like they are a problem - though LIFFE's new blood rebate rates only last for five months or so dont they

 

[mikeyk]

Mpoufos,


I have nothing to do with shaolin only experinec with the owner at another firm. i was offered a contract to trade for said firm but turned it down because of the follwong reasons:
1. the commisons where way to high
2. ALL financial risk was taken by the trader
3. They require me to put some of the capital up which at the time i couln't do
4. From my experienc at the time and from talking to other traders there i had little faith in them

I could go on

Basically it was a bad deal the only differemc is that this guy might have the pleasure of paying a grand to find out. Saholin could be different but i would approach with caution.


Mikey, get over it.... they're hiring at maccy ds....

cheers for that mate, tell your superviser i'll be in touch soon, what are they paying cos i wont get out of bed for anyhting less than 4.50 ph

 

[Mpoufos]

i never said anything about the training or expressed an opinion on the company. I said what I said which was check the commissions, as they are particularly relevant when trading spreads to get onto flys, or more complicated spreads.

if what you say is correct, then it doesnt sound like they are a problem - though LIFFE's new blood rebate rates only last for five months or so dont they

I didnt say that u expressed any opinion about the company. I was reffering to mickey on that one. Liffe's programme lasts for 4 months and its very useful for someone new cause effectively in these 4 months you are trading for free. At the end of these 4 months assuming that you have a steady trading course u will be able to decide if you are in or out of the game without losing your capital and getting a relative experience by trading live and not in the sim.

 

[Mpoufos]

I am not aware of the deal decided by shaolin for the new blood but anyway I am gonna bulletpoint ur above arguments.

1. our commissions are extremely cheap, I believe arbitrageur would agree on that.
2. Financial risk is taken by the trader by the amount of his risk capital. For ex) if he puts 5k his risk is limited to that amount. Shaolin is liable for any further losses.
3. I am not so sure if they require capital anymore or if they are gonna back the new traders. That u have to discuss with the director.
4. I had also the same fears as u did at that time, but i took the risk at that time and I dont think i will ever regret it. This is what i wanted to do, did my research, also discussed with a few traders (nobody was also very supportive on my decision as i recall), but I still did it. It doesnt matter what others say or think or have heard. Its good to gather opinions there and there, but your final decision should not be biased by any site, thread or discussion board. I am not sayin that they are evil but for gods shake. Y dont you create a thread called " The anti-arcade". Lets all be logical, there are 99% negative threads about arcades and 1% supportive on arcades or prop shops that are paying salary.

My question is this. Each arcade has I dont know 200- 300 in? Do they all complain? Do they all wanna leave? Arent there some making a serious amount of money? Do they all haev bad deals? It is this risk-reward relationship that drives this profession. Sure you could say that a prop shop is good cause its paying a salary but y dont u ask about the profit split? You think they are gonna pay you a salary and provide you with a decent profit slpit?

As a graduate I had the same skepticisims and if I was back then I would still go for the salary ones. Unfortunately I didnt get into any as I had to pass 2345234 tests 3-4 interviews and I hadnt graduated from any red-brick uni.(which under my opinion dont define a good trader). I joined one of the arcades , put down my own capital, no experience nothing, and has turned up to be one of the most brilliant moves of my life. It doesnt matter what others think about you, it doesnt matter if you are from LSE or Oxford, all that is matters is what you believe about yourself and thats the key not not only into trading but in any profession.

 

[mikeyk]

Nice post Mpoufos,

Sounds like you guys are getting much lower commisions than what we were offered at the time. i think it was 1.26, which isn't crazy but will make a big difference at the end of day. The deal we were offered was very similar to yours only that if we put down 5k and did our nuts then we would be liable to anything over the 5k.

I definatley agree with what your saying with regards to its the person who decides how successful he/she will be, not the choice of the arcade. I'm not anti arcade i just think you should give yourself the best chance of success.

I still dont think that the original poster should have to £995. To me it just doens't imply that the company running the scheme have much of an incentive to help you achieve your goals.

I'm glad it has worked out well for you.

 

[Mpoufos]

I know which company you are talking for and I am with you on that one. Its crazy... These companies yes should be avoided but we shouldnt put all the companies into one box. With threads "stay away" , "they will take all your money", "big mistake" , and I am not talking only about you , I am referring to all those negative threads where they dont have any evidence to support their posts. If I see smth completely outrageous i will pm the guy and ask him what happened with that company cause I am really interested. Anyway I dont have any personal interest with these posts I just trade through them and use their system. I just wanted to share my personal experience till now, cause I got tired watching threads "BE VERY CAUTIOUS". If i ever burn out of the game I will blame my self and not any arcade or prop shop.

Take care

 

[mauzj]

Hey,

Thanks for all the interest in this thread.

I already have a role at a salaried prop firm, but have hit the scalability limts of my current strategy.

I am therefore looking for new strategies to trade, and the reason why I posted originally was to try to get some tips as to what exactly these guys teach, and hopefully get some ideas for developing my own strategies.

I would be greatful if anyone could help plant the seeds of inspiration in my mind and would be willing to discuss the developments via PM,.

I have no intention of leaving my current position and commissions do not really concern me.

Kind regards,
mauzj

 

[newwizard]

so mikey candlestick were going to charge you 1.26 (if you say so), well I pay well under a pound with Shaolin (not on rebate).... So maybe you should start a candlestick thread

 

[mikeyk]

Thats nice

 

[tomc]

The best course of action is to do what feels best in your gut..go to the interview with an open mind, look at the offices, if they are smart its a good sign. Look at the clothes the people are wearing, the traders that is not the managers....and see for yourself. there is money to be made in buy/sell arb. These guys will teach you what you need to know..but the thing is it will take alot longer than a week or a month to learn how to consistently make money, i am about to join a company that charges 5k..no big deal if it all goes wrong. investing in yourself is the best investment you will make regardless of the outcome.. my course is three months before you go live...and they only take on 4 people at a time..if they all perform they are all hired. its as simple as that. If i were you i would try to see as many outfits as you can.
anyway..good luck to you and remember the only limits we have are the ones we give ourselves..people only trade 20 bux a point cause thats all they feel they are worth in trading.