Prop Trading Oil Futures

[RogueTrader888888]

Hello all, I need your help!

I have 1 year trading experience but fixed income. I am considering prop trading oil futures but need all the advice I can get. I have some knowledge of the oil futures but not much, never traded it.

I know it is an expert market and one of the most watched in the world (particularly full of pros). I cannot afford bloomberg or reuters or very expensive news feeds.

Therefore:

What advice can you give me to make this the most profitable decision?

Regards

 

[de123]

Well i am trading only oil from avgust the 8,....and 3 month on a demo,...still unable to make large profits,...but have learned some stuff, that I can share with u.
1. be aware that each wednseday there is oil inventory data being publish at 16.30 Paris time.
This is huge volatility,..that u can benefit or loose huge money...
2. Dont listen to those who say,...stick to it,...this can be true, only if u are a pro, and if u have hit the jackpot,...but even then move the stop up!
3. How to use stopp loss, can be even harder to define if their is huge volatility,...i traded 3 month without a stopp loss,...so if u see 300-500 usd dolar minus, ur are still on a right track, and can benefit few buks.
4. be aware of the 18.of the month, that date can be very choopy since there ae contracts being expired!
5. find some links, to watch the weather in the USA very closly.
6. Each contract, and every energy futures,...move in the same way. So If Brent is pushing higher,...and if u wont to go short with WTI, then step away,...and wait some more time...
7.and the hardest,...only 1 trade per day & not 5 per week!...greed, fear and anger will only kill ur account.

 

[andycan]

Well i am trading only oil from avgust the 8,....and 3 month on a demo,...still unable to make large profits,...but have learned some stuff, that I can share with u.
1. be aware that each wednseday there is oil inventory data being publish at 16.30 Paris time.
This is huge volatility,..that u can benefit or loose huge money...

Of course to begin with stay out of the market when news is due

2. Dont listen to those who say,...stick to it,...this can be true, only if u are a pro, and if u have hit the jackpot,...but even then move the stop up!

like any battle you have to be aware of the opposition, you are dealing with a volatile instrument, you dont need to hit the jackpot just aim to make more profit than losses

3. How to use stopp loss, can be even harder to define if their is huge volatility,...i traded 3 month without a stopp loss,...so if u see 300-500 usd dolar minus, ur are still on a right track, and can benefit few buks.


no no no the strategy of stops should be based only on your capital if you have a small account i recommend you stay away from crude

4. be aware of the 18.of the month, that date can be very choopy since there ae contracts being expired!

This is true of all futures

5. find some links, to watch the weather in the USA very closly.

Again depends if you are a fundamental trader then you will need news but if you are a technical trader you wont need that
just be aware of inventories and basic market sentiment

6. Each contract, and every energy futures,...move in the same way. So If Brent is pushing higher,...and if u wont to go short with WTI, then step away,...and wait some more time...

No no no they are different i trade Natural Gas and Crude and they are nothing alike
they are in completely different time cycles

7.and the hardest,...only 1 trade per day & not 5 per week!...greed, fear and anger will only kill ur account.

Again No you trade where the opportunities are strictly based on your methodology


with regards to advice
trade small to begin with, trade the mini crude contract which is 1/2 the full size
is their a reason why you want to trade crude?

 

[de123]

thanks for coorections,...i forget to mention that even currency can dominate the crude and the hurricans, wars, opec etc...but different oil move in same direction ....

And one more thing,...its fun,...and full of adrenalin....what u think about further days, weeks...my broker is telling me to go long at 62.80, but that support is already broken....and dont listen to all advice u hear,...if u are in any doubt dont do it....I got the feeling, thats gona drop like a rock in near future....The fundamentals arent strong,...the month before opec didnt actually cut production,...they increased the export,...and the expiration of the november was in place so it hit the lowest...and the 55 wasnt really tested ...and u?

 

[andycan]

thanks for coorections,...i forget to mention that even currency can dominate the crude and the hurricans, wars, opec etc...but different oil move in same direction ....


And one more thing,...its fun,...and full of adrenalin....what u think about further days, weeks...my broker is telling me to go long at 62.80, but that support is already broken....and dont listen to all advice u hear,...if u are in any doubt dont do it....I got the feeling, thats gona drop like a rock in near future....The fundamentals arent strong,...the month before opec didnt actually cut production,...they increased the export,...and the expiration of the november was in place so it hit the lowest...and the 55 wasnt really tested ...and u?

Trading should be interesting at best but if you are looking for fun its a sure way to blow your account
trading should be boring because the trades should be the obvious ones the ones you expect to win if you are unsure then you are gambling and then its just pot luck if you win or lose

a buy is in order but im looking for a little more down and then a potential buy if not a safe trade would be a breakout of the recent high
good luck

 

[charliechan]

you may want to look at marex and kyte if you want to go prop trading oil on your own account or a split account. im sure both have energy divisions in their arcades.

 

[RogueTrader888888]

Hey all thanks for your replies!

I have been accepted into a prop firm but will be trading in partnership with one of the more established traders there instead of the company (and using his capital). He used to be my ex boss at another prop firm and is setting up a sort of hedge fund.

Back in the day, I showed interest in the brent market because my dad was active in it. Now the opportunity has come to trade it. It is a wild market with great volatility. I have experience trading the bund, so I can deal with some volatility.

What news feed software do you guys use when trading brent. I have heard that anything worse than Reuters or Bloomberg will not suffice (but it is also very expensive).

Also what has been a successful spread to trade (very broad question)? WTI v Brent, Grack? Calendar? Outrights.

I will figure out my own strategies soon but I just cant wait to get started and this postgraduate course I am doing is boring me to death.

Regards

 

[de123]

i am replying to Andy,...I really stop reading news,...just a quick check on bloomberg and inventory is plenty enough for making money,...i think,..and basic in tecnical wont kill you ,...i suppouse....
What goes up,..comes down
Trading, scalping and swinging is not boring. Full action,...and no questions appear...just pure act.
Trending is boring. No action, just waiting...& to many questions appear....
Thats not gambling, gambling is if u get a position a few minutes before wednesday news,...which I have done 4 times so far (3 times I Was right )

 

[andycan]

i am replying to Andy,...I really stop reading news,...just a quick check on bloomberg and inventory is plenty enough for making money,...i think,..and basic in tecnical wont kill you ,...i suppouse....
What goes up,..comes down
Trading, scalping and swinging is not boring. Full action,...and no questions appear...just pure act.
Trending is boring. No action, just waiting...& to many questions appear....
Thats not gambling, gambling is if u get a position a few minutes before wednesday news,...which I have done 4 times so far (3 times I Was right )

what i meant by boring is that trading should be done with cool hard logic and not an emotional approach
if you look for excitement then Mr Ego, Mr Greed and no doubt Mr Fear will pop up
and then you will have all the thrills you want and when those guys are in the room then you are in hope mode and thats gambling
good luck

 

[de123]

You forget to mention Mr Anger, which takes the most
the same,...

 

[de_cooky]

hi.everybody..I am a new admission here..I am 23... trade for a propshop based in India and I trade brent crude in ICE..I am 10 months into trading ..mAKING OK money for my employer.. I can speak out of my limited experience only..I trade calander spreads of crude and gasoil..so far i have not been able to find any logic that actually moves these spreads..

Andy can u let me know what are the players active in this market..and who do u trade for..ur own account or a propshop

 

[andycan]

hi.everybody..I am a new admission here..I am 23... trade for a propshop based in India and I trade brent crude in ICE..I am 10 months into trading ..mAKING OK money for my employer.. I can speak out of my limited experience only..I trade calander spreads of crude and gasoil..so far i have not been able to find any logic that actually moves these spreads..

Andy can u let me know what are the players active in this market..and who do u trade for..ur own account or a propshop

I trade my own money
who trades it? the big boys

 

[BARLI]

Andy, nice points. I loved that you said: boring trading=making money trading. When i read those words I recalled my own experience and how I deviated from strategies and wanted more "fun" in the markets and that didnt do anything good to my account. Looks like same thing happened when Livermore lost his 100 mil after 1929, he always wanted to be in the markets and more often than not couldn't be patient waiting for his "boring set ups" that made money for him. For how long you been trading? I've only been trading since 2004.