New Trader needs advice

ashpall

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Hi- I am new to trading. I purchased and read 'Forex Trading Machine' by Avi Frister. Has anyone read his book and tried his methods? I plan to trade on a demo account for several months to test the effectiveness of his methods before going live. He stresses money management and trading psychology a lot in his book. Definitely good for a newbie like me!

Being new to Forex, can somebody tell me with good discipline, and money management what annual percentage gain can a person make on their money? This must be a very subjective, but any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Adam
:)
 
Hi ashpall,

This is a question that tends to be asked a lot by new traders. There is no definitive answer because it all depends on the style of trading employed.

If you're going to be a long-term trend follower working on end-of-day data, then an expectation of about 20% a year is realistic. At the other end of the scale, if you're planning to trade 24 hours a day using an automated trading system, then it's possible to make 100% on your money (given the right strategy and equipment setup).

May I ask your reasons why you have chosen forex as your chosen market? Many beginners look at getting into trading and automatically think that forex is the easiest market to trade simply because it's the easiest market to get into.

Have you evaluated other markets to decide if forex is right for you?


Thanks

Damian
 
Thanks Damian- I was sorting through business opportunities last week and saw a link to a Forex trading book by Avi Frister called Forex Trading Machine. I purchased it and it seemed like an honest straight forward book with a strategy and a strong emphasis on Psychology and money management. I have heard about currency exchange trading as potentially lucrative.

What trading market do you recommend?

-Adam
 
Hi,

It would be wrong of me to recommend any particular market to you because I don't know you and therefore don't know at this stage what market or trading style would best suit your needs, lifestyle and personality.

My personal market of choice is U.S. Stocks. This particular market suits me because it offers a huge choice of companies in which to trade, enabling me to pick out the very best trading opportunities on any particular day. I have developed a trading strategy that suits my personality and supports the type of lifestyle that I want to lead.

When considering trading, you have a vast choice of makets to trade: Stocks, Forex, Commodities, Bonds, etc, etc. You need to consider all your alternatives and decide what type of trading is actually possible given the type of life you are already leading.

You should ask the question - how will I best fit my trading activities around my current life and commitments?

Good Luck,

Damian
 
I dont think you should be thinking about how much you could expect to make at this point in time. reconsider more how much you are prepared to lose in your quest for sucess. this is more realistic.

the rewards will come if you get there, and making 20-30 % per month is possible depending on your risk profile, ability, trading style and timeframe. money management is key. Average out 1% of your account equity each trading day and you get 25% per month return. Average out 2% of your account every trading day and your get 50% return on your equity a month.....and so on, results depend upon variables.

understand why you want to trade and what your objectives are for your trading activity, set goals and milestone in your learning and build your plan around these.

If you havent yet grasped the basics, i mean the real elementary stuff here is where you start. when you have done this move onto understanding how the market works, dont spend too much time on technicals as this is only a minor aspect of correct trading...spend much more time on psychology and money management.

good luck
 
jong52yuara said:
as long as you can make money, do what you like! :cool:


A great book is Market Wizards. It's interviews with the world's top traders. It will definitely help you to understand what the great traders have in common.

You'll also be amazed at how much they disagree on technical/fundamental strategies.

Some are making 50% a year, some are making 1000's. Some have a 25% win rate, some have a 99% win rate.

The book will give you the confidence to 'do your own thing'. It will also help you to separate the Truth from the BS in forums, internet sites etc.


You are right though. One thing they all agree on is good psychology and money management.
(although they differ on what is meant by 'an acceptable drawdown').

Realistic return? That depends on your research. Don't let anyone tell you that 1000% per annum is impossible because it's not.

At the same time if your research tells you 20% or 50% a year then that's great too.


Good luck.
 
Avi Fristers book is quite good. It has helped me a lot. I think the best way to be successful is not chasing other peoples methods, but adapting them to your own needs and personality. The Cash Cow of Frister has been the basis of one of my current strategies that I trade quite successfully. You must believe in the profitability of a system, and it is easier to trust something you constructed yourself than something someone else constructed.

I owe Avi Frister quite a lot, without him the road would have been very long... but I learned to stand on my own.
 
Another good book

Hi- I am new to trading. I purchased and read 'Forex Trading Machine' by Avi Frister. Has anyone read his book and tried his methods? I plan to trade on a demo account for several months to test the effectiveness of his methods before going live. He stresses money management and trading psychology a lot in his book. Definitely good for a newbie like me!

Being new to Forex, can somebody tell me with good discipline, and money management what annual percentage gain can a person make on their money? This must be a very subjective, but any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Adam
:)

A book that is a MUST-READ for anyone looking to trade for a living is High Probability Trading by Marcel Link. It explains bluntly how most traders fail and why. It stresses money management and picking only those trades that you map out as high probability trades, thus weeding out the many losers.

Also, other than educational books, I would recommend to new traders to NOT buy anything as far as trading systems and strategies or courses (other then technical charting). Most systems that are sold AT BEST, did work, but no longer work....which is why the person is selling them now! That is if it ever did work in the first place!

As far as testing a system on a demo, I would have to also say it's a TERRIBLE IDEA! Obviously you have to test systems before you risk hard earned money, but demo systems are flawed. They give tons of false positives. Here is one reason why: In live trading, trades are filled on a first-come, first-served basis. Simply, a line forms at each price level. In demo atmospheres, this does not happen. When your price is touched, you are filled, when in reality, your price might touch 100 times and you could still be UNABLE! Then we have the whole psychology of trading, which doesn't exist in demo trading.

My suggestion is this: If you find a strategy that you are would like to test, open up a live account with the minimum deposit allowed. You are WAY better off losing your $400 to find out a system does not work, then to demo it successfully, feel it works, open a live account for a few thousand dollars, only to find that in live trading, the system doesn't work and your money is GONE!

Good luck!

Andy Geller
 
Hi- I am new to trading. I purchased and read 'Forex Trading Machine' by Avi Frister. Has anyone read his book and tried his methods? I plan to trade on a demo account for several months to test the effectiveness of his methods before going live. He stresses money management and trading psychology a lot in his book. Definitely good for a newbie like me!

Being new to Forex, can somebody tell me with good discipline, and money management what annual percentage gain can a person make on their money? This must be a very subjective, but any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Adam
:)

As a new trader, expect to lose money your first year. If you cannot afford to experience the reality of this situation, then you are not ready to trade. Depending on the size you trade...and you most likely will trade WAY MORE THAN YOU SHOULD, then you can trade with a few thousand dollars in an account all the way down to as little as $1K and make it last. Most traders max out positions litterally on their first day, lose money, and try to make it back on their second day, and so on.

Two books you should check out of the library (yes, library) or go read for free in a book store are The Disciplined Trader and High Probability Trading.

My answer to your question is very honest and very realistic. Expect to lose money your first year. If you cannot afford this, than you should have another source of income. You can spend your first year trading simply reading and learning, and lose absolutely $0.00 and be ahead of 95% of all the other traders in the world.

Oh yeah..you will overtrade too. It's inevitable. Out of 1000 trade set-ups, 975 look fantastic, and you will take all of them. By the time to other 25 PERFECT TRADES present themselves, you will be so low on your account that you can't afford to take those trades. Point being...the good trades will present themselves in bold....wait for them....The key to trading is taking only those high probability trades, and weeding out all bad ones.

Good luck!

Andy
 
Hi- I am new to trading. I purchased and read 'Forex Trading Machine' by Avi Frister.
:)


Hi Adam,
I've seen lot of traders moving from one trading system to another and never really getting anywhere. I was same until I learned and created something of my own that works for me consistently.

If you are just starting off then I would recommend trading and reading all sorts of strategies you can get your hands on. In a month or two do a "Self Analysis" and try to answer following question:

1. What kind of Time Frame I am comfortable trading with? Is it 5 Min chart or 4Hr chart that make more sense to me.
2. Am I comfortable with Charts and Indicator? Discover what indicators are more intuitive and easy to learn.
3. What kind of Broker suits my needs? Is it located locally or oversees? and other similar questions.
4. How much money I would be able to start with? Do I have it already or need to wait longer to save some.

Let me tell you something, we all try to over-optimize everything. As in trying to find the best broker, best indicators, best charting platform, best everything. This stops us from taking action as we keep researching.

I've now stop looking out for the "BEST". I use MT4 for Charting, MBT as my Broker, and created my own System .

Remember Taking Action is as important as Planning.

I hope this helps.

Regards
Evelyn
 
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As a new trader, expect to lose money your first year. If you cannot afford to experience the reality of this situation, then you are not ready to trade. Depending on the size you trade...and you most likely will trade WAY MORE THAN YOU SHOULD, then you can trade with a few thousand dollars in an account all the way down to as little as $1K and make it last. Most traders max out positions litterally on their first day, lose money, and try to make it back on their second day, and so on.

Two books you should check out of the library (yes, library) or go read for free in a book store are The Disciplined Trader and High Probability Trading.

My answer to your question is very honest and very realistic. Expect to lose money your first year. If you cannot afford this, than you should have another source of income. You can spend your first year trading simply reading and learning, and lose absolutely $0.00 and be ahead of 95% of all the other traders in the world.

Oh yeah..you will overtrade too. It's inevitable. Out of 1000 trade set-ups, 975 look fantastic, and you will take all of them. By the time to other 25 PERFECT TRADES present themselves, you will be so low on your account that you can't afford to take those trades. Point being...the good trades will present themselves in bold....wait for them....The key to trading is taking only those high probability trades, and weeding out all bad ones.

Good luck!

Andy

Very good responses all round folks.

I particularly concur with yours Andy you should have another source of income. This is something I found - I fiddled around learning for over 3.5 years - with a passion - reading, questioning, trading, tweaking - and so on. Then at the moment I wanted to "Trade for a Living" the truth hit me:

"What if I DO make my monthly salary? I then have to turn around and do it again ... and again ... EVERY month. If I DON'T then my a/c will suffer, and my capital base will suddenly come under pressure - known to be psychologically adverse to sound trading decision-making."

The second thing that struck me in Andy's post was something I have also found:

The key to trading is taking only those high probability trades, and weeding out all bad ones.

Indeed - this is an absolute MUST.

The above suggestions (in all of the posts, including Andy's) are very good advice for a new trader. There is intellectual knowledge, and there is experiential knowledge.

The latter takes at least 3 years to achieve, and that's just how things are.

You would not go to a surgeon who had read 1000 books on surgery, but never actually performed surgery, would you?

That little analogy suggests that there is an apprenticeship to be served, and some mentoring to sit under.

Be patient with yourself - be realistic in your expectations. Understand fear (fear of missing out, fear of losing) and greed (I knew I should have bought more, sold earlier, bought this one...).

Understand discipline ... and gambling. 'Nuff said - self explanatory, and volumes available on the web.

There is always another trade. Overtrading is the nemesis of new traders. If you miss a good trade - just accept that, and note down in your trading journal (you do have one, don't you?) why you missed the set-up etc. These are invaluable learning experiences - not occasions to berate yourself.

I know this is getting long, but I have to mention and agree with the question Damian asked you in his first response to the thread:

May I ask your reasons why you have chosen forex as your chosen market?

Forex is perhaps one of the most difficult of markets for new traders to manage. It has to do with the leverage (gearing) and the time-frames AND the distance stop-loss orders are placed from the current action. There is so much to understand here and it can only be achieved over time. The emotions of fright, fight, flight are primeval, and only a sociopath does not have them.

Only exposure to multitudes of scenarios can teach calmness in the storms of trading action.

Might I suggest that you have a look at ALL instruments - equities, options, futures, commodities, metals, gold, forex, derivatives, indices, and so on over a period of a year or so, before plonking for the one that suites best your personality, risk-profile and time frame.

And DO continue to use your friend John Google to sus out the answers to question. Forums like this are the perfect venue - and do not cost a cent.

If you follow the advice in this thread, your longevity in trading is almost assured, and I hope one day you too will be able to rspond in kind to a newbie. (It's called "Giving something back.")
 
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To Ingot

Very well said. I especially appreciate the part about the journal (you do have one, don't you!)

KEEP A JOURNAL!

Andy
 
Very well said. I especially appreciate the part about the journal (you do have one, don't you!)

KEEP A JOURNAL!

Andy


Hi,

Very good point about keeping a journal - keeping track of ALL your results and trading activities is key to developing yourself into a successful trader.

An accurate log will allow you to look back and see whether you are a winner, a loser, or a liar. It is human nature to remember our successes more readily than our failures, so a record of your activities is vital.

In Market Wizards, there is one particular trader who highlights this quite prominently. He says that for every trade he takes, he prints off the chart and annotates it in detail, writing down all his reasons for taking the trade.

For years, I never logged any of my activity because I took the view that my trading account balance would speak for itself.....well, it did speak for itself - it showed me that I consistently lost money for 6 years. It was only when I started recording everything, that many mistakes became blindingly obvious to me.

A lot of beginners are scared to record everything because it can highlight failure....something none of us want to admit.


Thanks

Damian
 
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Very well said. I especially appreciate the part about the journal (you do have one, don't you!)

KEEP A JOURNAL!

Andy

Thats the way to go. I maintain an Excel spreadsheet for my trades, plot graphs with money I make every week/mth. If you are into scalping and doing 50-60 trades a week then it gets little hard. I personally do only few trades a week and that it is easily manageable. These days I've started using Collective 2 to keep better track.
 
How to Shorten the Forex Learning Curve for Free!

I visited the London Money Show last week and horrified to see companies still peddling forex courses for £3500 for three days and an "advanced" course at over £6k!!!

Go to currency trading forex online learn free fx brokers traders interbank options interactive - its free & gives a basic outline of how the forex market works and what you need to understand before starting. Investing in specialist products is fine once you have this basic knowledge.

In addition take a personality test from Market Psychology Money and Investing Personality Tests - again they are free. Understanding your own temperament will help in determining which market and timeframe suits you best. Are you a scalper or longer term trader? You can be both in forex. Be honest & avoid disappointments - we can all drive a car to get us from A to B but we can't all be Lewis Hamilton!!

Lastly choose your broker carefully - understand the difference between fcn and ecn.

Practice, practice, practice. Try lots of demo accounts - in particular one that doesnt time out. Oanda fxgame is good although the charts are not brilliant. Look at the charts at Forex Street. The Foreign Exchange Market.

Finally good luck and enjoy!
 
Thanks Damian- I was sorting through business opportunities last week and saw a link to a Forex trading book by Avi Frister called Forex Trading Machine.

There's a book Trading in the zone by Mark Douglas, have you heard of it? I heard it's a good one..
 
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