Nasdaq futs

[rossored]

I have begun following NQ lately, and wondered if there were many others on the board who regularly traded it.

If so, do you have a favourite "method" or style for it? I ask because I tend to feel that ES futs dont normally generate traditional TA patterns in the same way as YM does, for example, and I'm beginning to think the same about NQ.

Is volume as useful, for example, on NQ as it is on ES? Or is it a waste of time?

Any comments/help gratefully received.

RR

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Volume

Personally, I think that looking volume is a waste of time in both symbols. There's plenty of it - what else is there to know? The notion of looking at the Bids/Asks from levels 2-5 doesn't make sense because such bids/offers can and do evaporate as fast as they arrive. Looking at level one is only relevant when trying to get filled and wanting to see how far at the back of the queue you are! But such 'volume' information is useless in terms of helping to assist with actual trading decisions IMO!

 

[rossored]

Hmm.

I was rather hoping that someone might be able to tell me something useful!!!

 

[stevet]

volume is a key entry and exit trading signal - and also impacts on the way that the releveant contract trades - but also remember that the es moves in quarter points and the nq moves in halves - and also that the underlying of nq is going to be more volatile than the es, since it is predominantly composed of techy stuff

forget the ym since you cant get enough size on to make learning it worthwhile

 

[Gary777]

Agree with Johnny

I agree with Johnny. I think volume isn't of much use in day trading. The smaller the time frame you are looking at the less useful it becomes in my opinion, although I'm sure there's plenty of people who disagree.

I also like to trade the YM.

I guess trading is such an interesting subject because everyone has different ideas.

Johnny Rotten - Are the the same Johnny Rotten who upset the locals on elitetrader.com ?

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Nothing personal

Is volume as useful, for example, on NQ as it is on ES? RR

Don't take it personal but your question/comment pre-supposes that volume is useful on the ES. Useful for what exactly? Trading decisions? I don't think so. At best, level one is useful for an idea of how many trades must take place before your limit order might be filled. Unless you're a 1 tick scalper, this information is irrelevant as a factor in determing whether you should place the order or not. The greater the volume (as is the case in ES/NQ) the more irrlevant it becomes. This may not be the answer you're looking for, but it's reality!

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Re: Agree with Johnny

Johnny Rotten - Are the the same Johnny Rotten who upset the locals on elitetrader.com ?

Sussed - yes! Looks like I'm off to a flying start here too

 

[rossored]

Hey, I'm just after any information that anyone can give. If someone tells me its a waste of time to trade it, or whatever, then fine I'll take that onboard, but I may not ness. agree with it.

I started the thread just to try and get some more info on NQ before I jumped in with both feet, thats all.

 

[stevet]

rossored

no disrespect and all that - but if you have to ask if its worth to trade - you really want to stay away from the NQ - its way more volatile than the ES - its volatility is an aid if you understand whats driving it - but you will get chewed up real quick if you dont - stick with the ES

and the reason its more volatile is to do, among other things, with the volume, which may not look much less compared to es, but makes a big difference when traders are pumping in size in the 100s

and how you trade without using volume beats me - since i only use price and volume - but like someone said - there is more than one way to skin a cat - not a cat lover i guess!

 

[rossored]

None taken, its just something else I am looking at as another potential string to my bow.

thanks anyway

 

[Johnny Rotten]

My favourite index futures

1. DAX
2. YM

Am alternative to the DAX for smaller accounts is the ESTX50. Both symbols tend to move the same way at the same time, albeit the DAX runs faster. ESTX50 has much lower risk & much lower reward.

For the US markets, ES is "OK" but suffers a lot of chop. The NQ has exactly the same issues and moves so similarly to the ES that the only reason I can think why anyone would waste their time with it, is because they have a smaller account and/or prefer to take smaller $$ risk than trading the ES. The YM while it has lower volume and moves in a similar direction to the ES most of the time ...it tends to be technically purer.

But the DAX is where it's "at" in my mind. First two hours of Eurex, and first two hours of US open only.

I suppose reverse logic applies, in the sense that if you're just starting out and cutting your teeth, then the best markets would be:
1) NQ
2) ESTX50
...with the goal being to graduate to DAX & YM later.

 

[Gary777]

Welcome Mr Rotten.

That infamous thread on Elite Trader where you presented your excellent trading method and at the same time destroyed the '50 posts a day' locals will live long in my memory.

All the best to you.

 

[rossored]

Yep, the Dax would be great....however, the idea of getting up to trade at god knows what time does not fill me with glee

 

[stevet]

Johnny Rotten

i am fascinated - how can you put the Dax and the YM together, do u know the relative values and the available size on each? i wish we could get that kind of comparison in our arbs

and just so you know - the YM may appear technically purer - but thats just because all the trades do not register - when the CBOT moves to the liffe system - the YM is going to look a lot less purer for sure

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Welcome Mr Rotten.

That infamous thread on Elite Trader where you presented your excellent trading method and at the same time destroyed the '50 posts a day' locals will live long in my memory.

All the best to you.

Yeah - the main problem with ET is that it's run by yanks. A ban was the only way out of town! Figured I'd hang out with my fellow countrymen for a while instead. BTW, what's with the auto deletion thing over here? I never wrote those asterixes in my signature file! Doesn't the owner of this site know I have the legal right to call my album by its proper name? ...

http://www.acc.umu.se/~samhain/summerofhate/courtcase.html

How are the moderators in this town anyway? Seems like a few Mother Hens and Uncle Toms but I could be wrong?!!!

 

[rossored]

Just a quick note on NQ volume, if I may, (and this is not a "told you so" post or anything) but would this not qualify as a perfect double bottom with lower volume as confirmation (like on ES?)

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Johnny Rotten

i am fascinated - how can you put the Dax and the YM together, do u know the relative values and the available size on each? i wish we could get that kind of comparison in our arbs

and just so you know - the YM may appear technically purer - but thats just because all the trades do not register - when the CBOT moves to the liffe system - the YM is going to look a lot less purer for sure

"Relative values and available size" are not factors in my life! I chart the price action of one symbol alongside the price action of another, and base my buy/sell decisions on such analysis. I'm not arbing or worrying about relative valuations etc. All I care about are the price bars. Obviously I know what the different market's tick values are, and what my risk per trade is. But I'm only comparing bars with bars. As & when the YM chart gets choppy, I'll be the first to jump ship. I used to trade ESTX50 until that slowed down too much. Of late, the YM has been the best US index futures market to trade IMO. If and when that ceases to be the case, I will wish it adieu!

These markets could be called "moon dust" futures for all I care. To me, they are just charts and nothing more. It's not an intellectual exercise for me. Just a money-making one.

 

[stevet]

johnny rotten

yep - but the relative value of the dax and the ym does come into play when you are getting size on - and you aint gonna get any size on on the YM

 

[Johnny Rotten]

Just a quick note on NQ volume, if I may, (and this is not a "told you so" post or anything) but would this not qualify as a perfect double bottom with lower volume as confirmation (like on ES?)

Maybe - there are 20 ways to skin a cat. Take the signal in the YM though and you'd make more money. My style of trading is to chart all 3 main symbols and then 'execute' in the best one. So, if you insist on charting the NQ then I would still place the order in another market. The problem with the concept of a "double bottom" (aside from it being conventional i.e. not likely to work) is that how do you determine when a double bottom is a double bottom? I mean really define it with PRECISE rules. Unless you have clear rules, like a) I willl buy x ticks above a bar that has Y criteria with Z supporting factors ...then all you are doing is subjectively fishing for bottoms. A sure way to the poor house.

And if by any chance your datafeed is IB (not saying that it is) or any other snapshot feed then the volume numbers will be totally wrong anyway ....because it's not a tick-by-tick streaming feed.

 

[Johnny Rotten]

johnny rotten

yep - but the relative value of the dax and the ym does come into play when you are getting size on - and you aint gonna get any size on on the YM

I am but a paltry 1-5 lot trader and this presents no problem in either the DAX or YM. It's actually amazing how much money you can make and lose being a 1-5 lot trader in the DAX :!: