middle office interview

dubula11

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hi guys just wondering if any of you can offer any advice about and interview i will be having soon.

its the position of middle office book runner for a well known investment bank. I know I will probably asked technical questions about swaps and options and also you basic competencies but i would be glad if anyone could help define what pnl attribution is and how risk is accounted for in this role. Will I have to know the greeks and explain them at interview, I have never studied them and i graduated two years ago so il be a bit rusty on options etc. Also if anyone could explain more about what the role will entail and what will be required, i would be eternally grateful.

thanks for your time guys.
 
any responses would be appreciated, have done a search but cant find anything on this area, anyway thanks.
 
Middle office is a hugely varied role. It's very dependant on both product and more importantly bank / organisation as to it's scope. The smaller the place, the more compartmentalised the job is likely to be.

At a typical, mid ranged organisation, I'd expect it to involve P+L analysis and production, some facet of position / risk monitoring, general liaison between 'business' side (i.e. front office - trading and sales) and 'operations' (back office).

Appropriate stuff to touch on might be the need for detailed understanding of process within the department in order to quickly isolate, minimise and ultimately mitigate risk. Also, demonstrate an awareness that there is more than one type of risk inherent in a large trading organisation. Not only market risk (i.e. p+l effects of swings in price) but all sorts of operational risks, regulatory risks, reputational risks. You won't have to be an expert in all of them, but you will need to know that it's not just about agreeing that the books are flat and the P+L looks right.

Make sense? Hard to totally brief you as the roles are so very bank dependant (and I don't have a copy of the job spec for the role in question). If you have any more specific questions I'll do my best

GJ
 
thanks for the response gamma, the role is basically what you have stated but will be in the rates department of middle office, id suppose id be looking after at interest rate trades, i.e. swaps and options, the job spec says id be overseeing risk, p+l, reconciling trade breaks and also updating balance sheet??? not quite sure bout the last two.

It is a top tier investment bank, so its quite large, thanks for your input means a lot.
 
someone like gooseman or martinghoul if they read this may well be able to add a little insight.
 
sounds like the back of the middle office if you get me. you'll be pulled about 6 ways too. risk/front office/back office/regulators/accountants/IT/ops. pays well if you're good.

as for trade breaks i see mine so i'd hate to see a banks...!
 
thanks guys i think youve pretty much told me what i will need to know for the interview, iv gone over, competencies, what i would bring, motivation, options swaps, why ib and bank background, so i think im well prepared. Just wanted to know what actually is meant by a trade break and what the process is when one occurs, im probably being a bit thick.

Anyway nice1 guys cheers for the help.
 
what's in your trade blotter versus what's in your account. if they're different you have a break. simples.
 
what's in your trade blotter versus what's in your account. if they're different you have a break. simples.

Hi,

I do not agreed with you. Any way, your ideal make me thinking about some thing for my project.

Please try to keep posting. Tks and best regards
 
Middle office functions are closely connected with the front office of bank, but concerned with monitoring, and providing information on, the front office functions, rather than with the actual origination of transactions.

Examples of middle office functions are risk management and product control. The latter involves fine grained and frequent compilation of information on trading and similar activities.
 
Hi guys, started this thread andi i havnt had much chance to come back im so f**kin busy with this new job however, i though i would come back to share my experience and maybe we can get dialogue going on things i dont get and maybe i can answer questions for people who may want a better understandingabout this role

banking i basically calculate risk for traders and explain risk i.e why it has moved. My traders trade vanilla products, ir swap xccy swaps bonds bonds futures, cash futures, .making markets.

Basically training really wasn't very good and the whole group have a whole heap of questions which dopey managers either cant answer or just aren't interested.

I understand delta risk but was hoping to get some knowledge on the other risks and attributions which i am unclear about. ie reset gamma theta risk and also there p&l attribution.

I do ask traders, technical things when i and there are not busy and they generally comply as i work my butt off for them.

Anyway just hoping we can get some dialogue going on this and if anyone would like to know anything from me about my experience etc I will try to answer.

gerneral duties are trying to imrpove proccesses talking to settlements about queries solving problems for traders, you have to keep them happy if you want to keep your job lol.
 
Well done, dubula... It's a good start and I hope it only gets better for you going fwd!
 
one of the traders my mate at work book of runs for, (well its a team of 4 traders) hes lost on average 400k a day for the last 3 weeks, its f**ing crazy, working for a bank you realize the amount of dodgy stuff that goes on there are systems that some of the colleagues i work with do not no how to operate and the only people who know how to operate them properly are not with the company anymore, basically its causing issues with payments to counterpaties, its causing millions of dollars loss per day and knowone really know what to do it seems when a difficult desciion needs to be made management just guess??

Suppose not their fault though the training is just very poor. We works with swaps and you basically just have to pick it up and understand how pv's work etc, job pay is ok but when you think most people on team averaged 15 hour days last week it doesnt really seem that great.

does any one else work in middle office risk or p&l, tbh its not really for me i want to really get into front office like a lot of my colleagues any1 had experience of working front office rates equities at all in big investment banks?
 
What do you want to know? In general, it is, indeed, shocking just how little so many traders understand what actually goes on behind the scenes... Personally, I think every single trader should g through a month in middle- and back-office to understand exactly how things work.
 
martingoul this may sound a little sill to you but do you know how spreads work in the p& attribution proccess for plain swaps. Do you know the basic explanation of spreads and how they are accounted for and calculated in a swaps trade and over the life of one. would be good to here a sound explanation thats all.

I here what you say though about traders, they know absoloutley nothing and they are incredibly lazy, if they have a problem and i say they have to act on it themselves they will never ever do it even if it is extremly important, shocking really. I have found the reLLY REALLY good traders the ones who take 4-5 mil home a year most have come from middle office, which is quite suprising alos. anyway thanks.
 
You're going to have to tell me in a bit more detail what you're referring to as "spreads" in this specific case. Swap spreads or another sort of basis?
 
Dubula, I think I can give you a steer on PL attribution. Assuming we're using the same terminology: "PL attribution" means "PL explain by attribution" and is one form of explaining PL (typically from one day to the next) in terms of changes in underlying inputs to whatever you are pricing (eg asset price, volatility, interest rates).

A derivative is typically priced as a function of many variables eg P(S, V, R, t) where S = underlying price, V = volatility, R = interest rate, t = time to expiry. You can measure all these variables (and calculate derivative price P) from one day to the next (P1, S1, V1, R1, T1), (P2, S2, V2, R2, T2)

I am aware of two basic methodologies of PL explain: (i) by greeks/Taylor Series and (ii) by attribution. (ii) can be split into independent/cumulative versions (I'll explain this below).

First of all you list all the variables used to price your derivative.

In (i) you calculate all the greeks of interest (normally all first order derivatives: dP/dS=delta, dP/dR=rho, dp/dV=vega, dP/dT=theta, etc) and probably some second order (eg d2P/dS2=gamma, d2P/dV2=volgamma, d2p/dSdV=vanna). For each of these you use the mathematical derivative and the difference in value of the underlying(s) to estimate PL attributable to the change in that underlying. This is basically Taylor series estimate on a function (price P) of N variables. The sum of all the PL estimates is your estimate of PL under the greeks. It may or may not be a good estimate of realised PL, and that in itself may give some clue as to reliability of greeks for hedging.

PL_est = (dP/dS) * (S2-S1)
+ (dP/dV) * (V2-V1)
+ (dP/dR) * (R2-R1)
+ (dP/dT) * (T2-T1)
+ 1/2 * (d2P/dS2) * (S2-S1)*(S2-S1)
+ 1/2 * (d2P/dV2) * (V2-V1)*(V2-V1)
+ (d2P/dSdV) * (S2-S1)*(v2-V1)
+ ...

So you end up with a list of PL components each corresponding to one greek.


Note, just like Taylor series, you could calculate greeks to arbitrary N-th order, but the higher order terms (over 2nd order) will generally be negligible in value.

In (ii) rather than calculating the greeks, you calculate price P for day 1, then recalculate the price P changing each of the inputs (to that of day 2) so that

P(S1, V1, R1, T1)
P(S2, V1, R1, T1) : S
P(S1, V2, R1, T1) : V
P(S1, V1, R2, T1) : R
P(S1, V1, R1, T2) : T

By changing each component you get a portion of PL attributable to the change in that underlying. Again, the sum of these may or may not result in a good match to the true PL.

A variation of (ii) involves doing the changes cumulatively:

P(S1, V1, R1, T1) : P1
P(S2, V1, R1, T1) : S
P(S2, V2, R1, T1) : S,V
P(S2, V2, R2, T1) : S,V,R
P(S2, V2, R2, T2) : S,V,R,T

This way you finally arrive at the realised price and the cumulative version exactly "explains" the realised PL. However, it may be slightly suspect in that the underlying changes are not made independently, so cross/higher order effects are not really investigated.

Note - in a real situation, the volatility and interest rate inputs may have a complex structure ie rather than a scalar (zero dimension) value they may be interpolated from a 1, 2 or 3 dimensional grid, so while the basic methodology above still applies, in practice, the calcs will become a lot more cumbersome.

Note - in interest rate derivatives world, the interest rate structure will probably be considered the "underlying asset".

Note - the price of some financial derivatives can have very odd behaviour around certain points (eg barrier option close to the barrier) and the greeks can be misleading around these points, sometimes rendering the explain exercise useless.

Finally, a disclaimer: its been a while since I did any of this so apologies in advance for any errors
 
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one of the traders my mate at work book of runs for, (well its a team of 4 traders) hes lost on average 400k a day for the last 3 weeks, its f**ing crazy, working for a bank you realize the amount of dodgy stuff that goes on there are systems that some of the colleagues i work with do not no how to operate and the only people who know how to operate them properly are not with the company anymore, basically its causing issues with payments to counterpaties, its causing millions of dollars loss per day and knowone really know what to do it seems when a difficult desciion needs to be made management just guess??

Suppose not their fault though the training is just very poor. We works with swaps and you basically just have to pick it up and understand how pv's work etc, job pay is ok but when you think most people on team averaged 15 hour days last week it doesnt really seem that great.

does any one else work in middle office risk or p&l, tbh its not really for me i want to really get into front office like a lot of my colleagues any1 had experience of working front office rates equities at all in big investment banks?

By the sounds of it. The best thing you could do is find another job.
If you are 2 years out of university there is still a chance you could get on a grad scheme, and hence into "front office". Middle office to front office used to happen but odds are probably 1 in 1000 these days. It's not because YOU arent good enough but as you can imagine every middle office bod "wants" to be in front office and the middle office management (who also wished there were in front office) will never let one of their underlings the chance (plus is makes a president, then everyone would want it). So walk out now and dont look back.
 
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