London Arcades Knowledge Dump

[alpha_monkey]

For the Moderators....

Is there a way that T2W could create a matrix to document known information on London Arcades?

Users to (anonymously?) update information such as:

- approx number of traders per market (x bobl, y short sterling, z eurostoxx etc)
- desk fees
- com rate split
- profit share split
- methodology taught to new recruits
- risk tolerance (in terms of no of lots) given to traders after a year
- supportive/inspiring atmosphere (scale 1-5)
- number of trainees taken on in one batch
- timescale in terms of progression from theory to practise
- timescale before getting culled if initially unsuccessful...

I'm sure there are other points to compare arcades on. The financial ones may be of most interest. The more transparent this kind of information, I'd argue the better for the indiviudal trader.

What do you think?

Cheers,
AM

 

[Sharky]

Thanks AM, great suggestion. The new content section of the site will be an ideal place for this sort of information. The format and mechanisims for updating the information still need to be defined, but we definately intend to publish this over the next few months.

 

[mintoze]

London Arcades Knowledge

Thanks AM, great suggestion. The new content section of the site will be an ideal place for this sort of information. The format and mechanisims for updating the information still need to be defined, but we definately intend to publish this over the next few months.

When will this new section of the site be available please?

 

[Sharky]

The new knowledge section of the site will launch in December, and will be in constant development thereafter. So this paticular part of the new section may not be ready until next year. In the meantime, perhaps we can create a thread on the forums and ask members to post information about arcades - then we can quickly move this over later.

 

[wisestguy]

would be good too , if someone could start anew by defining what exactly is a " trading arcade " .

in the old days , I knew them as " bucket shops " , but trends /names change so fast , one cannot keep up .

so that would be appreciated.

 

[binsley]

The new knowledge section of the site will launch in December, and will be in constant development thereafter. So this paticular part of the new section may not be ready until next year. In the meantime, perhaps we can create a thread on the forums and ask members to post information about arcades - then we can quickly move this over later.

did this happen on any other thread yet?

 

[MartinD]

wisestguy,
you seem to have a misconception of the definition of a "bucket shop":

bucket shop (from www.dictionary.com)

An illegal operation (in the US) in which buy and sell orders are accepted, but no executions actually take place. Instead, the operators expect to profit when customers close out their positions at a loss. A bucket shop is similar in concept to a bookie who does not lay off bets and accepts the risk of a bettor winning.

So basically a bucket shop is a spread betting setup. "bucket shop" had been a standard term in the US throughout the boom years of the 1920s, up through the stock market collapse of 1929-1931, for any place taking mere bets on the course of securities prices without ever delivering, nor intending to deliver, any actual shares to the market participants. This practice was eventually outlawed in the US, but due to a quirk of UK law bucket shops by definition still exist with SB firms such as finspreads.

A "trading arcade" by contrast is the screen based equivalent of an exchange trading floor - an office filled with trading workstations backed with extensive infrastructure manned by self employed professional traders using company funds to trade global intermarket/calendar spreads with large size lots to scalp ticks, from which they take a large share of profits. An example of a typical arcade being www.macfutures.co.uk which is owned and operated by refco.

 

[wisestguy]

well martin,

technically , you may be right , but these days defs are getting distorted left, right and centre as I am sure you have noticed.

the bucket shop label can also be used in different ways , eg) a cheap discount but legal broker with minimum service - churn and burn .

and the arcade , well yes OK , but " using the firm's capital " as a scalper is somewhat in doubt as we have seen , since some arcades require you to use your own $ first.

and if refco is involved , well , it's a BS of the second kind in my book.

 

[alpha_monkey]

Thanks AM, great suggestion. The new content section of the site will be an ideal place for this sort of information. The format and mechanisims for updating the information still need to be defined, but we definately intend to publish this over the next few months.

Congratulations on the new Knowledge section guys. Good foundations for a genuinely useful resource. Look forward to seeing it develop.

On that note, is there a place in the framework to start up a beta version of an arcade knowledge dump?

Cheers,
AM

 

[Sharky]

Thanks AM, 'Trading Arcades' will be a new resource type (like articles and people), listed on the right hand menu. The questions that remain are:

i) What information do we want to show on each Trading Arcade - AM has already suggested some, in addition we'd probably want some background info on each, logo, contact details etc
ii) How do we break down arcades into categories - whether by country or type.
iii) How are we going to allow members to interact with it (in order to update it). Currently we edit the knowledge lab in house, so do we need to provide some mecahnisim for members to directly update the arcade details?
iv) How are we going to compile the list of Arcades in the first place - are there any resources on the net which list them?

 

[Daniel]

On my list of things to do is to find someone who can write an article (or articles) explaining exactly what is a trading arcade, the pros and cons of working in one etc.

If anyone has any experience in this area or knows anyone who does, please pm me. An alternative to an article would be an interview.

The plan is that such an article and any other info we include on Arcades would live in the Knowledge Lab topic 'Trading Careers.' If we get enough maybe it can have it's own topic but better not get ahead of ourselves...

 

[binsley]

Thanks AM, 'Trading Arcades' will be a new resource type (like articles and people), listed on the right hand menu. The questions that remain are:

i) What information do we want to show on each Trading Arcade - AM has already suggested some, in addition we'd probably want some background info on each, logo, contact details etc
ii) How do we break down arcades into categories - whether by country or type.
iii) How are we going to allow members to interact with it (in order to update it). Currently we edit the knowledge lab in house, so do we need to provide some mecahnisim for members to directly update the arcade details?
iv) How are we going to compile the list of Arcades in the first place - are there any resources on the net which list them?

Sharky - 1 of the biggest areas to get right is a break down of cost structures - a critical point which can alone determine the suitability of an arcade. It needs to broken down across product groups - index futures, bond futures, equities, CFD's, options etc as both an entry level comm. structure and ultimate structure (ie when large volumes (rt's) are involved)

 

[Directional]

Here's a starting point for arcades for you to include in the resource, anyone know of others I dont have down here?


EDIT - data moved to traderpedia

 

[Sharky]

With the launch of the Traderpedia, we now have an ideal place to record this information about the different arcades. In fact we already have a page about Trading Arcades here: http://www.trade2win.com/traderpedia/Trading_Arcades that would make an ideal starting point.

 

[Directional]

Sharky,

i was thinking about how it might be possible to improve the Arcade Index to include cost structures and perhaps details grad schemes.

could possibly make the title of each arcade in the directory into a link to a traderpedia page on each arcade... users could then add comm rate & desk fee info and details of grad schemes to the page specific to the arcade.

what do you think? or would this be crossing the line into 'advertising'?

 

[Sharky]

No, I don't think it's advertising. So no objection to including them per sé. It's really a question of getting people to share the information, and making it easy to navigate the various different arcades. When they are all listed with their information on one page, it's simple to scroll down. Ideally we should have an interactive tool, that you can re-order the arcades/brokers/software etc by one of any number of criteria. But in the meantime you just need to be aware of the limitations of what can be achieved by the Traderpedia.

 

[TWI]

Why doesn't somebody from T2W go and interview some of the directors of the arcade companies and let them answer a fixed set of questions. This can be done in person or via e-mail. I do not think the guys would mind doing it provided you put who they are, and the shop they are from. Often these guys get bad press from people who have been unhappy when they found it a lot tougher than they thought they would
and didn't make it or guys who genuinely got scr*wed.
All it takes is for somebody to write the list of questions out.
Once that is dumped then the rating discussion can begin.
A list of arcades with contact details can be found on Liffe website.

 

[charliechan]

Why doesn't somebody from T2W go and interview some of the directors of the arcade companies and let them answer a fixed set of questions. This can be done in person or via e-mail. I do not think the guys would mind doing it provided you put who they are, and the shop they are from. Often these guys get bad press from people who have been unhappy when they found it a lot tougher than they thought they would
and didn't make it or guys who genuinely got scr*wed.
All it takes is for somebody to write the list of questions out.
Once that is dumped then the rating discussion can begin.
A list of arcades with contact details can be found on Liffe website.

good idea,

i dont think the average grad or t2w member/mod will know what sort of questions they should be asking - one reason why some kids get in such a pickle as you point out.

perhaps someone with some experience could lend a hand.

a similar thing has been done on www.elitetrader.com

do a search for the user LRD. he is a journalist has has interviewed sonny at sta, chris morris at saxon, and a few others from gcho etc.

 

[mintoze]

Originally Posted by twalker

"A list of arcades with contact details can be found on Liffe website."

Sorry am unable to locate; can you help please? Many thanks.

 

[Directional]

the list has been copied and added to in the Traderpedia on this site, with links to the LIFFE entries also