Keep entering the trade at the wrong time?

[craig5150]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forum and have been
Day Trading about 3 weeks full time.

I am using a chart, Level II and time
and sales, real time data.

It seems I keep entering the trade just
as it retraces.

Example: I see a Green candle on an upswing.

Level two and time and sales start heating up.

I enter the trade and it starts to slide back
into a red candle, just after I get filled.

I end up hitting my stop in seconds and I am
bounced out of the trade.

Losing $20 to $30.

In most cases the stock ends up rising later a buck
or two after.

It seems I would be making more money as a
Swing Trader.

I don't want to add to my stops.

Any tips for timing an entrance a little better?

Thanks, for the help.

Craig

 

[NVP]

you are trading retail prices instead of wholesale prices (look it up)

Either allow the price to retrace a little before entering or widen your stop loss and reduce $ per pip/point to accomodate it

if youre right the trade will move back into the direction you were anticipating .....

remember retail vs wholesale ....

and remember theres no such thing as a straight line in trading charts !

N

 

[craig5150]

I guess I am just entering when it is not a clear uptrend.

Maybe I should learn more about Elliot Wave theory.

I think I wait too long to get in, and then I enter too
late.

What time frame do most people use for momentum
trading?

I am using a one minute chart.

Craig

 

[wackypete2]

I am using a one minute chart.

Craig

There's your major problem. Trying to determine a clear trend on a 1m chart and keeping a short stop loss is not beginner territory. There's nothing wrong with it but you need to learn in a slower environment. Try using a 5m or even 15m chart with a smaller position size until you get better at it.

Peter

 

[FringFX]

I guess I am just entering when it is not a clear uptrend.

Maybe I should learn more about Elliot Wave theory.

I think I wait too long to get in, and then I enter too
late.

What time frame do most people use for momentum
trading?

I am using a one minute chart.

Craig

have you traded on a demo environment before?

3 weeks is still too early in the game.

as suggested, widen your stops and trade small for now... if you are comfortable trading one minute charts, you need to keep a wider perspective by simultaneously viewing higher timeframe charts ( one hour to daily and weekly).

if you want to time your entries better, you need to feel the rhythm of the stock which you are trading.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

if you're new to this, my opinion is that you shouldn't be using anything lower than 1H TF

 

[timsk]

Hi craig5150,
Broadly speaking, I agree with the replies you've received that recommend switching to a longer timeframe. However, (and this is just my personal view), most traders would do much better to stop using any type of time based chart - of which candlesticks is the most popular. Unless time itself is a critical part of your methodology, time based charts tend to cause more problems than they solve. I might be wrong but, it sounds to me as if you're being mesmerized by individual candles which, for the most part, are largely meaningless. So, I suggest you stop trading real money, go back to demo and put up a Point and Figure chart. If you're not familiar with P&F and want something simpler to test out, use Renko instead. Both charting styles are ideal for day trading using tick data.
Tim.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

I think where you went wrong is you believe the guy on the other side of your trade is dumb and want to give you free money, or worst you don't believe there is anyone on the other side at all but in fact you are dealing with a magical money printing machine directly.

Once you realise you are dealing with someone extremely intelligent and rich on the other side, perhaps you will find a different way to play with him. But it's not going to be easy. He's very clever, and greedy. With all the money he made from everyone, he could also afford the most expensive computers that helps him play his hand quicker than anyone else. His computers also keep records of what price you paid, how much your are down, where your stops are, and historically at roughly what point you will sell out at a loss. How are you going to beat that, huh ?

Widening stops also increases the amounts our aforementioned clever friend will potentially take from you. It's quite a dilemma. Perhaps the best thing to do is to stop playing with him with such large sums. Then he can't take very much from you even if he tries very, very hard, and very, very quick. Once you are able to hold on to your own money, never mind about taking his money, then perhaps you can start thinking about how to go about becoming more clever than him. It's not going to be easy, because you will be up against every trick his piles of money can buy for him. One solution to this problem that is guaranteed to work is perhaps to not play with him altogether.

 

[NVP]

Once you realise you are dealing with someone extremely intelligent and rich on the other side, perhaps you will find a different way to play with him.

.......although not necessarily a 100% correlation

 

[robster970]

Hey everyone,

I'm new to the forum and have been
Day Trading about 3 weeks full time.

I am using a chart, Level II and time
and sales, real time data.

It seems I keep entering the trade just
as it retraces.

Example: I see a Green candle on an upswing.

Level two and time and sales start heating up.

I enter the trade and it starts to slide back
into a red candle, just after I get filled.

I end up hitting my stop in seconds and I am
bounced out of the trade.

Losing $20 to $30.

In most cases the stock ends up rising later a buck
or two after.

It seems I would be making more money as a
Swing Trader.

I don't want to add to my stops.

Any tips for timing an entrance a little better?

Thanks, for the help.

Craig

Your problem is self control. Mistiming entries is due to inexperience and feeling like the trade opportunity will run away from you. Either slow it down by trading off a higher TF affording you more breathing space in your decision making or leave it on the 1m but before you enter, wait 1 more minute and get a better entry price.

Patience.

 

[robster970]

Hi craig5150,
Broadly speaking, I agree with the replies you've received that recommend switching to a longer timeframe. However, (and this is just my personal view), most traders would do much better to stop using any type of time based chart - of which candlesticks is the most popular. Unless time itself is a critical part of your methodology, time based charts tend to cause more problems than they solve. I might be wrong but, it sounds to me as if you're being mesmerized by individual candles which, for the most part, are largely meaningless. So, I suggest you stop trading real money, go back to demo and put up a Point and Figure chart. If you're not familiar with P&F and want something simpler to test out, use Renko instead. Both charting styles are ideal for day trading using tick data.
Tim.

That's not really true Tim. Time is as important as price because time and price used together can tell you whether orderflow is changing. Volume then confirms. P&F is not useful someone trading off 1m/5m timeframes.

 

[BeginnerJoe]

.......although not necessarily a 100% correlation

Definitely 100% correlation in my stated context. This is why 90% (99% my estimate) of people loose to them and afterwards still don't understand why.

 

[craig5150]

Thanks for all the advice.

I made $109.00 today and went 3 for 3.

I was Trading Apple, Google and Amazon the last 3 weeks
and they were all too fast and volatile.

I switched to a slower stock on a pretty clear
uptrend.

CTRX

I missed the first part of the rally but managed to snag .51 cents
on the first trade.

100 shares.

I then bought 200 shares and the final trade
400 shares.

All 3 were winners.

I used a 1 minute chart, a 3 minute chart and a 5 minute
chart to verify the trend and the entry point.

The stock moved pretty slow so it was a lot easier to
get out when the stock retraced.

Thanks for all the tips.

Now all I have to do is get a little better and
increase my share size in the future.

Can anyone recommend a good rally scanner
for up-trends?

 

[alphadude]

Hi craig5150,
Broadly speaking, I agree with the replies you've received that recommend switching to a longer timeframe. However, (and this is just my personal view), most traders would do much better to stop using any type of time based chart - of which candlesticks is the most popular. Unless time itself is a critical part of your methodology, time based charts tend to cause more problems than they solve. I might be wrong but, it sounds to me as if you're being mesmerized by individual candles which, for the most part, are largely meaningless. So, I suggest you stop trading real money, go back to demo and put up a Point and Figure chart. If you're not familiar with P&F and want something simpler to test out, use Renko instead. Both charting styles are ideal for day trading using tick data.
Tim.

go easy on Craig; I think P&F will confuse the hell out of him :clap:

 

[alphadude]

Thanks for all the advice.

I made $109.00 today and went 3 for 3.

I was Trading Apple, Google and Amazon the last 3 weeks
and they were all too fast and volatile.

I switched to a slower stock on a pretty clear
uptrend.

CTRX

I missed the first part of the rally but managed to snag .51 cents
on the first trade.

100 shares.

I then bought 200 shares and the final trade
400 shares.

All 3 were winners.

I used a 1 minute chart, a 3 minute chart and a 5 minute
chart to verify the trend and the entry point.

The stock moved pretty slow so it was a lot easier to
get out when the stock retraced.

Thanks for all the tips.

Now all I have to do is get a little better and
increase my share size in the future.

Can anyone recommend a good rally scanner
for up-trends?

Craig do you have a clear system rules that you are following ?

if you are following your gut; watch out man.

in anyway; if you stay profitable for 3 months; and all months are profitable; you are heading in the right direction. don't increase your capital at the moment; be patient; and wait till you lose some of it first.

 

[craig5150]

Can you recommend a clear system?

 

[Shakone]

Craig do you have a clear system rules that you are following ?

if you are following your gut; watch out man.

in anyway; if you stay profitable for 3 months; and all months are profitable; you are heading in the right direction. don't increase your capital at the moment; be patient; and wait till you lose some of it first.

Could easily be acheived by adding to losers etc. and not really the right direction

 

[jungerns]

I think where you went wrong is you believe the guy on the other side of your trade is dumb and want to give you free money, or worst you don't believe there is anyone on the other side at all but in fact you are dealing with a magical money printing machine directly.

Once you realise you are dealing with someone extremely intelligent and rich on the other side, perhaps you will find a different way to play with him. But it's not going to be easy. He's very clever, and greedy. With all the money he made from everyone, he could also afford the most expensive computers that helps him play his hand quicker than anyone else. His computers also keep records of what price you paid, how much your are down, where your stops are, and historically at roughly what point you will sell out at a loss. How are you going to beat that, huh ?

Widening stops also increases the amounts our aforementioned clever friend will potentially take from you. It's quite a dilemma. Perhaps the best thing to do is to stop playing with him with such large sums. Then he can't take very much from you even if he tries very, very hard, and very, very quick. Once you are able to hold on to your own money, never mind about taking his money, then perhaps you can start thinking about how to go about becoming more clever than him. It's not going to be easy, because you will be up against every trick his piles of money can buy for him. One solution to this problem that is guaranteed to work is perhaps to not play with him altogether.

Quality post indeed.........
My own views are that charts and all the rest serve only to completely bamboozle the individual using them especially at a retail level.......
I would consider myself pretty highly intelligent but they confuse the shight out of me so I completely ignore them now. Since taking that approach over a year ago profits have soared............

Have just completed a 500+ point week without a chart in sight.

Price Action Price Action Price Action..............

 

[craig5150]

Do you swing trade or day trade?

 

[Tempted]

I think where you went wrong is you believe the guy on the other side of your trade is dumb and want to give you free money, or worst you don't believe there is anyone on the other side at all but in fact you are dealing with a magical money printing machine directly.

Once you realise you are dealing with someone extremely intelligent and rich on the other side, perhaps you will find a different way to play with him. But it's not going to be easy. He's very clever, and greedy. With all the money he made from everyone, he could also afford the most expensive computers that helps him play his hand quicker than anyone else. His computers also keep records of what price you paid, how much your are down, where your stops are, and historically at roughly what point you will sell out at a loss. How are you going to beat that, huh ?

Widening stops also increases the amounts our aforementioned clever friend will potentially take from you. It's quite a dilemma. Perhaps the best thing to do is to stop playing with him with such large sums. Then he can't take very much from you even if he tries very, very hard, and very, very quick. Once you are able to hold on to your own money, never mind about taking his money, then perhaps you can start thinking about how to go about becoming more clever than him. It's not going to be easy, because you will be up against every trick his piles of money can buy for him. One solution to this problem that is guaranteed to work is perhaps to not play with him altogether.

Interesting thought...