International time zones,Time frames and Out of Hours Trading

[Jason101]

Hi, sorry to ask such simple questions, I am new to trading and trying to trade using daily candlestick patterns,pins at s/r on gold (because the leverage is quite low with my S.B (IG) to get me started.) My question is that if I am using daily t.f candles to find pins and other price action, how relevant are my candles if they open and close midnight to midnight, UK time, 7pm in NY, and goodness knows when in Australasia, and this day candle must incorporate after hours trading (which must differ time zone to time zone also?) (and how are the after hours markets made (including FTSE) and how do they link up with market opening? and does it matter placing trades in after hours time? and is it after hours for the rest of the world!?? Can you tell I am a Newbe!! I am a bit confused as to how it all fits together. I guess the same questions must be relevant to other commodities such as oil?

 

[new_trader]

You need to know the trading hours for instrument you want to trade. You will get this and other information about the instrument from the particular exchange that it trades on or from your broker. NB: Normally the specified times are local ie/Exchange times.

Eg/ The ES (E-mini S&P500) is traded on the CME Globex (Chicago Mercantile Exchange)
The Trading hours are specified as:MON-THURS: 5:00 p.m.-3:15 p.m. & 3:30 p.m.-4:30 p.m. (Daily maintenance shutdown 4:30 p.m.-5:00 p.m.) SUN: 5:00 p.m.-3:15 p.m.


The above times are Chicago time.
This translates to (U.K) (when there is no D.S.T difference between UK and US):
Sunday 23:00 - Monday 21:15
Then Monday -Thursday: 21:30 - 22:30 (Daily maintenance shutdown 22:30 - 23:00) then 23:00 - 21:15

Out of hours trading usually means outside of CASH market hours for instrument you are trading.
The S&P500 stocks which are used in the main index are traded on the CME from 08:30 - 15:00 Chicago time. This translates to 14:30 - 21:00 (UK) (when there is no D.S.T difference between UK and US)

I think this answers one of your questions or none...or something...

 

[Jason101]

Thank you New Trader for taking the time to answer my questions, I think you have been helpful in answering my questions on how the after hours prices are made,… So when an exchange closes the cash price with IG Index automatically turns into a futures price, until the exchange re opens to allow 24h trading on say the FTSE, is this right? If so is the trading that makes the futures price done through the instruments exchange’s own out of hours department, by a third party derivative’s exchange or by the individual s.b companies?

 

[Jason101]

The main part of my question is when I am looking at a daily pin bar, are traders in other parts of the world seeing my pin bar or are they seeing another type of bar which would have been a pin but has since turned into another type of candlestick ,because their daily candle stick ran on for another four hours. I need to know that other traders are seeing what I am seeing as to know what they are likely to do next, this also ties in to out of hour markets
There are so many helpful and knowledgeable traders on this site I would appreciate it if someone could shed some light on these matters for me and other new traders? Thank you.
Jason

 

[nine]

If you figure out what a pin bar really is then the cult of the pin bar might see some light.

A pin bar is a fast rejection of extreme prices in the timeframe you are trading. So price goes up (say) finds a lack of support or outright rejection and then blasts down. Then, the next period the pb is confirmed when its lows are taken out.

It is a rejection of the value of a particular price range. Its only a clue. So its a clue worth taking only at prior support and resistance. Its the S&R that really matters because there are lots of pin bars in irrelevant regions that don't count.

So, does it matter if other people see it the same? A little. But there are lots of different time frame players climbing onto any move. Check out a free delayed view of the same thing on 1 hour bars. Did price go up; did it maybe try and then retest forming a low timeframe double top maybe; did it fall back and maybe consolidate before dropping back through that consolidation (the traditional trigger for the pin bar)?

Look not for a pin bar but a 24hr move up out of value that is rejected. Then you'll be becoming a trader.

 

[new_trader]

The main part of my question is when I am looking at a daily pin bar, are traders in other parts of the world seeing my pin bar or are they seeing another type of bar which would have been a pin but has since turned into another type of candlestick ,because their daily candle stick ran on for another four hours. I need to know that other traders are seeing what I am seeing as to know what they are likely to do next, this also ties in to out of hour markets
There are so many helpful and knowledgeable traders on this site I would appreciate it if someone could shed some light on these matters for me and other new traders? Thank you.
Jason

Jason, there are so many traders with differing opinions looking at different things and using different platforms that the answer to your question is "probably not". Having an 'edge' basically means being able to capitalize on an opportunity that others traders can't see. You really should not worry about what other traders might or might not see and do (or TELL you to do!) and focus only on what you see and what you do.

 

[Jason101]

Its only a clue. So its a clue worth taking only at prior support and resistance. Its the S&R that really matters because there are lots of pin bars in irrelevant regions that don't count.

Check out a free delayed view of the same thing on 1 hour bars. Did price go up; did it maybe try and then retest forming a low timeframe double top maybe; did it fall back and maybe consolidate before dropping back through that consolidation (the traditional trigger for the pin bar)?

Look not for a pin bar but a 24hr move up out of value that is rejected. Then you'll be becoming a trader.

I am working on my first strategy and my entry is to first draw support and resistance lines, then buy at support on a pull back (to previously drawn support) if I see a pin bar and I have an oversold stochastic sign then I will take the trade. But after reading your post I think I may have to wait until the next daily time frame to see if the price goes higher than the previous time frame’s (day) high to “confirm the pin bar”

Fantastic.
I new what a daily pin bar was, but never actually thought about what it was, I was amazed and really taken by surprise that I had never thought about analysing a past daily bar, in hourly time frames (without a second thought though, I would go down from a daily to an hourly to find an entry) After receiving your reply I immediately, went through some charts on hourly time frames, pictured the daily candlestick in my head, with open, close and body figures, and then turned my chart into daily t.f to see how accurate I was. I intent to do this for at least 5 mins a day while looking at my charts, until a daily candle is just a short cut for what I already know - THANK YOU.

I can also break down the last 24h candle to find out for myself what it it would have looked like in NY or Australasia and try to determine if it matters at all.