IG Index

[stevespray]

IG Index and Refused Instructions

I'm just interested to find out if anyone has had problems with IG Index not excepting valid orders via the internet. I recently had a problem closing a very profitable bet online and it doesn't appear that they have followed the rules set out in the Terms and Conditions of the Customer Agreement. To add insult to injury it seems that, when confronted about the refused order, the dealer may have wrongly informed me of my rights under the T&C. He basically told me that IG were not obliged to stand by any price they quote. The T&C tell a different story. Has anyone else come across dealers taking this line and having orders refused for no clear reason.

Steve.

 

[jklondon]

Can you explain the details a bit more? i.e. was the instrument offline on the platform and you could only trade via the phone ? or you couldnt trade it at all ?

I have an IG account and do have problems closing / opening bets on the platform sometimes but can generally do so over the phone.

 

[stevespray]

No - The instrument was Wall St Daily, they quote it more or less 24 hours per day. On the day in question I opened a down bet just after 8am. Low and behold at around 8.50am it showed a profit of 29 points after the spread. I decided that 29 points in 45 mins was pretty good so I submitted my order to close the bet. After a wait of almost a minute I got the message "Order Refused". On receiving the message I rang dealing and asked why my order had been rejected. By this time they were now edging dow higher. The dealer basically told me that on reflection he had decided that he may have priced his market too low. IG's market was infact perfectly inline with other prices being quoted at the time I submitted my instruction and therefore I deemed my orders to close my bet perfectly valid. He them informed me that the Terms and Conditions said that he had the right to reject any order for any reason and that they were not obliged to fill orders at quoted prices.

So it would seem that dispite IG openly advertising "The price you see is the price you get" they do infact claim that they are not obliged to fill orders at quoted prices. Something doesnt add up.

The Terms and Conditions are quite clear on the matter. They state that in order for IG to reserve the right to refuse an instruction that certain criteria must me met with the instruction at the time the order is placed. These criteria relate to prices being wrong / margin requirements etc. In my case IG have admitted that the reason for rejection is not in the criteria listed in the T&C but claim "these are not the only reason we can decide to reject a bet". So dispite the T&C saying that the T&C will govern business between us IG claim they can invoke clauses not listed in the T&C. This is very strange, no where in the T&C does it say these 'extra' clauses exist. It would seem in my case that I have caught IG trying to cheat and having confronted them on the issue instead of sorting the problem out they have just tried to flannel me by saying extra T&C's exsist which arent listed.

Steve.

 

[donaldduke]

stevespray,

How big was your bet?

 

[jklondon]

Very intersting , im guesssing they were left out badly by your bet although like dd I would be interested to know the size of the bet since it seems silly to me to reject if unless it was pretty big!

I guess you could 'threaten' to take this up with the FSA since they are regulated by them - although I would check the TC again for a small get out clause, if like your saying it does not have one then this does sound like foul play on their part IMHO.

 

[stevespray]

The bet was for £80 per point. I've bet at that size many times and its never been a problem. I would however mention that the time it takes to process my bets had increased from about 3 seconds to 40 odd seconds. It seems to me like they started to monitor exactly what I was doing by manually checking each bet. However the dealer has admitted that he only decided that his price on Dow needed reviewing after my instructions to close were known to him. As he is at liberty to swing his market based on his order book then it is clear that a conflict of interests exsists if they are allowed to have 'seconds thoughts" once they have priced and avertised their market prices. Obviously in this case the dealer rejected the order based on what he decided his market was after he had re-priced it, however the T&C act to protect customers from this type of situation by clear stating that the reasons for rejections based on incorrect prices should be based on prices AT THE TIME THE ORDER IS SUBMITTED. In my case the price I submitted was correct at the time I submitted it and only became incorrect with the passing of time (almost 1 minute) but IG are ignoring this fact because it suits them to do so.

Steve.

 

[adrianallen99]

I gave up using IG index. If you lose money through your own error then fine, but when you lose 5-10 points from a winning trade because the price they give you is different after clicking the button, it was just annoying.

I asked if they could give a copy of the prices throughout the day, surely they muct have a tick-by-tick record, but they couldn't. In fact they couldnt even give me a list of the stocks and markets they traded.

 

[sidinuk]

The spreadbet companies are nothing but bucket shops. They are after the mug punters who jump in and out of the market in minutes, place loads of trades during the day and risk way too much on each bet.

Take it as a compliment that they are trying to discourage you from using them. Your betting directly against them so if you are winning they are losing. Don't believe their hype that they love winners because they hedge all their bets, they don't. They make their money from the losing clients, same as any other bookie.

 

[stevespray]

Sidinuk - I know where you're coming from mate. The number of times I've heard people from the S/B Co's say "Actually we like winners". It makes me laugh. The fact is that most dislike anyone who makes money in a short term time frame (intra-day basically). I've seen all the tricks. Obviously the best trick from the spreadbet companies point of view is the delayed execution of orders. This delay allows them to see if the market is moving in a manner favourable to them or the customer, if the move favours them they simply except the order, if it favours the punter they refuse the order on the grounds that "the price is no longer valid". This type of sharp practice does go on and it does conflict directly with the service that companies actually advertise. There is only one reason in the world of spreadbetting why companies would advertise "the price you see is the price you get" and that is to suggest to customers that their service is in some way superior because of the ability to grab prices quickly. The fact is that when push comes to shove they claim that they have no obligation to standby anything they advertise, be it the tyoe of service (ie WYSIWYG) or the prices. There are laws which are supposed to protect consumers from this type of rogue practice but one has to ask where they are being inforced. While the companies in question know that nothing is being done they will continue to try and ride rough-shot over customers.

Steve.

PS. Makes you wonder if there is a space in the market for a spreadbet company which charges a dealing fee whilst allowing punters to trade at market spreads ? Seems like a small gap in the market there.

 

[bracke]

adrianallen99

Since ypu stopped using igindex have you found a better company to deal with?

On another site a number of people reported bad experiences with deal4free - suddenly moving the spreads by a large amount without any apparent reason.

regards

bracke

 

[jaykay3]

Has anybody informed the FSA about what goes on?

 

[stevespray]

Direct access is the only way to go IMHO. People will tell you that winnings are taxable which is true but cheating spreadbet companies are a hidden tax.
Direct access gives you a few extra bonuses anyway. Access to market where spread is very tight means that your control of market psychology becomes much easier to manage in my opinion. If you open a trade and it goes straight against you it can be closed cheaply and quickly for little more than a few ticks loss, its harder to close these positions if you have a spreadbet because something inside you tells you that you are going to waste too much money if you close it because the spread is too big.

Steve.

 

[oatman]

Tell them you're in touch with the FSA. They wouldn't enjoy an investigation anyway :cheesy:

 

[stevespray]

Jaykay - The FSA are investigating my case. If they find in my favour then I will start a court proceeding to recover the money that IG have cheated me out of.

Steve.

 

[jsd]

hmmmm, thats a potential niggle for online dealing, they could just bounce an order back and have time to adjust while people then get on the blower, seconds count in this game and 60 secs watching 80 a point vanish would make anyones heart thump double time.. best to cover with a verbal at the same time if possible. i do wonder if they have a trip switch that they throw to nobble the order flow,

does any body know the actual process of an order, i must admit it takes relatively few seconds to get an order fill from ig, so i assume its automated??? maybe only the bigger bets are eyeballed by their staff. ? when placed electronically ?

 

[stevespray]

JSD - What you say about order processing is almost certainly true. I'm not sure if its the size of the order that they pick up on or weather they just flag your account or even a combo of both. I used to find that £80 per point went through in a few seconds and then all of a sudden it took almost a minute. In the end however this shouldnt effect the processing of the deals as I'm just as entitled to receive the service that they advertise as the next man.

Steve.

 

[eminem]

Do you remember some time last year there was a prog on TV following a dealer in a SB firm. Showed them sitting at a desk and some siren goes off and he explains that it goes off when someone is trying to place a large bet (£100 I think) and he then gave the go ahead to take it or not after he gave a cursory glance at his screens. Funny, only the large bets were treated this way

 

[adrianallen99]

Bracke - I have moved to CapitalSpreads and have found it a much better experience.
The only problem I have is that they dont deal 24 hours, so it can be frustrating when you see your futures dropping knowing you cant sell.

They do Have good spreads though - 3 on FTSE, 2 On Nasdaq and 5 on Dow. Add a couple if you buy for March.

 

[bracke]

adrianallen99

Thank you for your reply. The spreads are better than the two companies I use namely igindex & cantorindex.

Regards

bracke

 

[adrianallen99]

I very rarely use daily bets on spread betting, when I started I did. I found I could lose lots of money as quick as I made it and with the SB companies tactics it was very hard to make money day trading.

Im only making about 3% profit a week at the moment, but im fairly happy with that. I made 70 points on the Nasdaq in a week which I was pleased with.