How many £ per Point before the market screws you?!

[HaloTrader]

Hello, i was wondering, if your trading £1,000 risk on the FTSE100 with a 10-point stop, in other words, £100 per point, is there any way that you could move the market, or is it far to liquid for that to happen and would having a large size order like that affect the trade badly in anyway, like i don't know how but .... ?

If you want to basically be risking £500 per point on the FTSE100 - thats okay yes? No weird things are going to start happening because proffesionals want to stop me out or my order moves the market or anything like that ????

Thanks be really helpful to here your replies.

If i want to be trading £500 per point, would forex be more suitable than the FTSe100 because its more liquid... Or by trading £500 per point would i get ridiculiously bad fills and completely manipulate the market?

Just wondering what the maximum you can trade in a market without it affecting your trade. THanks

Halo ^)

 

[NetTecture]

I would sa that regardless of market it ALSO depends on what is acceptable to you. A scalper with extreme short term trades and relying on very tight stops will feel slippage more than a swing trader that per se has a larger stop loss, so the slippage would be smaller percentage wise (compared to his loss in points).

 

[arabianights]

That's 10 lots on the ftse. IME e near bid/offer is about 4-7 and the next half tick will let you out, so you will pay a very slight premium but there is no trouble in getting your position in and out of the market if you work it sensibly

 

[N Rothschild]

somin tells me he is talking about spreadbetting lol

 

[donaldduke]

Hello, i was wondering, if your trading £1,000 risk on the FTSE100 with a 10-point stop, in other words, £100 per point, is there any way that you could move the market, or is it far to liquid for that to happen and would having a large size order like that affect the trade badly in anyway, like i don't know how but .... ?

If you want to basically be risking £500 per point on the FTSE100 - thats okay yes? No weird things are going to start happening because proffesionals want to stop me out or my order moves the market or anything like that ????

Thanks be really helpful to here your replies.

If i want to be trading £500 per point, would forex be more suitable than the FTSe100 because its more liquid... Or by trading £500 per point would i get ridiculiously bad fills and completely manipulate the market?

Just wondering what the maximum you can trade in a market without it affecting your trade. THanks

Halo ^)

You dont mention spread betting in your post, but the assumption when you talk in pounds per point is that you are a spread better.

Liquidity changes throught out the day.
For the FTSE futures sometimes there are 20 contracts on the bid or ask, some times only 1.

So if you want to spread bet over 100 a point i have no idea how the SB will hedge you when liquidity is thin, my guess if you are a consistent winner they will ask you to break up your orders into smaller ones (ie limit your size) so they can hedge them more easily. Intially you will be able to bet 100+ a pound a point all the time, no problems, only when you start to make big money will you find they will want to limit you to smaller size or put you on phone dealing etc.

However the FX market has much more depth so the limits before you start to get issues will be higher.

What the exact limits are i have no idea, and are probably different between firms, but in general the spread bet firms dont like short term traders that make big money.

 

[HaloTrader]

The reason i ask is because, i'm gradually building up to the stage were i have to trade large amounts (scalping) and i just want to plan ahead. I can't use igindex anymore because of there restrictions on me and also want to move on from spreadbetting.

What can i use instead? Barclays Stockbrokers CFDS? Whats the best way to trade the FTSE100 with 10 lots

 

[NetTecture]

Scalping is hard with large size. It is very short term, so you really will be hit by slippage, so you will hit size limits that work pretty fast So, the amount you CAN earn is pretty limited by this.

Once you approach, try getting another alternative tradde method, too. One that works slower, and takes larger moves - so you can deal with more volume.

 

[HaloTrader]

Scalping is hard with large size. It is very short term, so you really will be hit by slippage, so you will hit size limits that work pretty fast So, the amount you CAN earn is pretty limited by this.

Once you approach, try getting another alternative tradde method, too. One that works slower, and takes larger moves - so you can deal with more volume.

When i say scalping sorry i don't mean 1-2 pips at a time within the spread... I mean having stops of 15 and aiming for 50 pips ... That reasonable?

 

[Rossini]

surly you can scale into a large size then?

 

[KillPhil08]

very

 

[TheHoneyMonster]

It depends on many factors-

your trading style
how good you are
how good your business is for them
your relationship/communication with the company

etc.

Spread co's as standard tend to have a £20-25 per pip ceiling, above which trades get dealer referal.

 

[kwickwool]

If you get a DMA account which is a must for scalpers such as futures betting then you will be able to see the market depth etc, dont see how you can even consider not using DMA when trading that amount scalping?

 

[Splitlink]

Hello, i was wondering, if your trading £1,000 risk on the FTSE100 with a 10-point stop, in other words, £100 per point, is there any way that you could move the market, or is it far to liquid for that to happen and would having a large size order like that affect the trade badly in anyway, like i don't know how but .... ?

If you want to basically be risking £500 per point on the FTSE100 - thats okay yes? No weird things are going to start happening because proffesionals want to stop me out or my order moves the market or anything like that ????

Thanks be really helpful to here your replies.

If i want to be trading £500 per point, would forex be more suitable than the FTSe100 because its more liquid... Or by trading £500 per point would i get ridiculiously bad fills and completely manipulate the market?

Just wondering what the maximum you can trade in a market without it affecting your trade. THanks

Halo ^)

I think that you have to be a trend follower to feel safer with that size risk. If you are scalping then you must take your profits very quickly, because I believe that the market will try to take back any profit that you make. It's more like a guerilla war and it does not need to be that size- It can be much smaller because there are so many more buyers and sellers in that kind of trade. This has happened to me with orders placed with a stoploss, so I am more careful these days.

 

[Calinor]

I didn't realise such a small amount would affect things on the FTSE. I haven't ever actually bet 100 per point, that seems too risky for me, unless I had a lot more money. You should be able to get more than the 20-25 per point that honeymonster mentioned though. How does FuturesBetting handle big size? Do you get a lot of slippage, or does the extra spread take care of most of it?

 

[Splitlink]

I didn't realise such a small amount would affect things on the FTSE. I haven't ever actually bet 100 per point, that seems too risky for me, unless I had a lot more money. You should be able to get more than the 20-25 per point that honeymonster mentioned though. How does FuturesBetting handle big size? Do you get a lot of slippage, or does the extra spread take care of most of it?

Small amounts go with large amounts. Everyone is in the same boat.

 

[yellowdigger]

If you are scalping, the spreadbetting bid offer will eat your profits, you need to trade the underlying futures contracts in the market, you can eat into that bid offer by putting orders on the bid or offer (essentially joining the market maker) letting someone else pay the bid offer by hitting or lifting you

 

[trader_dante]

When i say scalping sorry i don't mean 1-2 pips at a time within the spread... I mean having stops of 15 and aiming for 50 pips ... That reasonable?

That's not scalping though.

 

[richi rich]

you say ''move the market''

if ur spread betting u wont move the market, b/c ur not trading the market. ur trading the bookies market, n those coks fill u out in 1 price, unless they offer u another price. dont sweat about not getting filled on £100 per point ive put through £300 per point FTSE 100 they took it instantly (u maybe move the market indirectly e.g. if u put a massive trade, the spreabet firm might/will hedge massively in the real markets, thus moving the markets - but u as a spreadbet niger will still get filled one price in the bookies market

i dont do much spread betting sh'it now mostl dma

 

[Unicorn77]

The reason i ask is because, i'm gradually building up to the stage were i have to trade large amounts (scalping) and i just want to plan ahead. I can't use igindex anymore because of there restrictions on me and also want to move on from spreadbetting.

What can i use instead? Barclays Stockbrokers CFDS? Whats the best way to trade the FTSE100 with 10 lots

You need to ring ig's credit division to get your deposit limit raised, and don't use barclays, i regularly see traders moaning because they can't trade in volatility

 

[N Rothschild]

halotrader, should move into trading futures on the s&p500, certainly wont be any issues with that size there..i'll even give you my system for a cut of 500 a point .

500quid a point would be about 150 emini s&p contracts and you should get filled no problem at all, may more the market a point or 2 but that's about it.