High Price of 'Advice Services'

[MikeMurf]

I am surprised at the high prices being asked on the net for advisory services which promise to the skies about what they will deliver to you but then charge a ridiculous amount & lock you in for 1/2 years.

Now if I have a method/system which I knew gave me an edge in the markets & I was willing to sell this to other traders here's what I would do:

1. I'd sell the system for $20/month in Month 1. Double to $40/m in Month 2. Double to $80m in Month 3 and continue increasing until the cost was $5,000/m (this would take some 9-10 months)
2. Nobody would quit a winning system & if the system was good enough then $5000/m would not be exorbitant
3. The fact, to my way of looking at it, that advisories charge $1,000 - $3,000/year straight off the bat without proving their systems (and, no, offering a money-back guarantee does not do it) shows to me that they DO NOT have an edge - otherwise they'd prove it.

So guys, am I right or am I being commerically naive?

 

[gtspeed]

Nope ,just remember those who cannot …...teach

 

[MikeMurf]

Nope ,just remember those who cannot …...teach

So Gary, does that mean that all the 1,000's of products out there on the net are bogus? Before you give your answer let me give mine. Yes every one - every single one.

 

[NVP]

ummm.........you are being commercially naive .....but i do get where you are coming from

Teaching / Trading / doing ......??

if people have been following my thread and other forums etc etc ....I have myself been trying to transition across to teaching from my trading in the last year .....but in truth i will take a big drop in income to do that ......so it has probably been the most (selfish) reason to date that i havnt done it ....perhaps in time

N

 

[gtspeed]

Yep many give wild claims , but in real life the systems don't work as if making a great million for a living using only a few mins a day , why sell a course that is a fluffed up version of what is free on many websites and blogs, I can point some fingers but really the best teacher is yourself

 

[tomorton]

Its very easy to develop a strategy which looks like it should work, but is complicated enough to convince people it is worth buying. You obtain historical records "proving" it will work by running 10 or 20 similar strategies side by side and picking the one with the best results, or by running the same strategy simultaneously on 10 or 20 different markets and selecting the one with the best track record. The other histories just get deleted.

Then you need to set a market price which is not too high, because your prospective customers are not wealthy, but not too low as this tends to devalue your product.

Its all rather easier than trading and maximises the tiny edge that a system has or extends the appearance of that edge from a random sample period to, apparently, an infinite date in the future.

None of this means the system won't work. It just suggests it has an incredibly narrow edge or short "edge life" so that its not worth trading.

 

[MikeMurf]

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Then you need to set a market price which is not too high, because your prospective customers are not wealthy, but not too low as this tends to devalue your product.

Thx Tomorton. But if you had a system/strategy that had an edge won't you sell it in the reverse way that I describe. This way has 3 virtues: 1. It starts so cheap that anyone can afford to 'kick it's tyres' 2. Inbuilt within the sales method is the ability to see if the product works for you for a very low price - not $1,000's 3. It maximises profit to you the seller. The very fact that ALL products ARE NOT sold in this way but want $1,000's up front tells me that they are not genuine.

 

[tomorton]

If I had a system that had an edge why would I sell it at all? I could just trade it and become obscenely wealthy.

Fact is possibly the system vendors don't have to have a system that has an edge, or they don't need to know if it does or if it doesn't. Why should they care? Its possible to buy a system off the shelf for $1000: you could then sell it at $200 and hope you get mass sales to outweigh your purchase cost. Cheap price doesn't make it any more genuine, neither does a subscription model.

 

[MikeMurf]

If I had a system that had an edge why would I sell it at all? I could just trade it and become obscenely wealthy.

Fact is possibly the system vendors don't have to have a system that has an edge, or they don't need to know if it does or if it doesn't. Why should they care? Its possible to buy a system off the shelf for $1000: you could then sell it at $200 and hope you get mass sales to outweigh your purchase cost. Cheap price doesn't make it any more genuine, neither does a subscription model.

So tomorton - It looks like you agree with me - That ALL the net offerings are phoney. Would you be as bold as to agree?

 

[tomorton]

So tomorton - It looks like you agree with me - That ALL the net offerings are phoney. Would you be as bold as to agree?

No, some of them will work, but probably even the vendors don't know which or for how long or why they work or why they don't work forever. There's just no way of knowing what you're buying so there's no way to know if its good value or a waste of money.

For example, a system that says - buy on any close above the 14EMA if the EMA is sloping upwards and the RSI is 50 or less and there is no NFPR in the next 10 days - would probably be workable. But what's it worth? And though it will work for some people, why does it fail for others?

 

[MikeMurf]

OK, I'll have one last go at trying to put my case.

What I am saying is - No system works & the likes of trade2win, futures.io etc etc are all fake to an extent. The systems because as I've proven (I think) and the trade2win etc cos they live off the fake systems.

All I really would like someone to say is - No you are wrong & this is how I will prove you are wrong. But do you know what - I will not get such a response

 

[FXX]

There is nothing wrong with people giving advice and charging for the service. The problem is there are snakes out there that are doing it knowing full well they don't know how to trade. The signs are easy to spot though. You will not be presented with trading statements or you will but they will be cutout screenshots which can easily be manipulated. They are also not going to be registered to give trading advice and they will focus their content on wealth instead of the business. It's the age old scam of enticing you with wealth which they source from subscriptions and most likely referral fees and royalties on client trades.

If someone was able to give you complete transparency and they have a good sortino ratio then you might have potential so long as the reward minus the fees make sense.

So forget the price and look for all the hallmark signs of it being a scam. I posted a video some time back on my thread with an industry trader telling you how these scams are done, worth a watch.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[tomorton]

OK, I'll have one last go at trying to put my case.

What I am saying is - No system works & the likes of trade2win, futures.io etc etc are all fake to an extent. The systems because as I've proven (I think) and the trade2win etc cos they live off the fake systems.

All I really would like someone to say is - No you are wrong & this is how I will prove you are wrong. But do you know what - I will not get such a response

The basic features of good systems do work. So, a system that depends on following a trend will work. but that doesn't mean you'll make a profit: a strategy consists of a whole bunch of stuff that's much more important than recognising whether price is uptrending or not or on recognising the entry signal.

 

[MikeMurf]

I have studied many ideas BUT no sales systems work. I want ALL the subscribers to say this - Don't let the beginners be exploited by these people. The experienced I hope would support me.

 

[barjon]

I have studied many ideas BUT no sales systems work. I want ALL the subscribers to say this - Don't let the beginners be exploited by these people. The experienced I hope would support me.

Saying it is one thing, hearing it is quite another.