Hello (Newbie) / Career Advice

[Muru]

Hello there,

I just joined this forum therefore i am not totally sure if i am in the right place for advice.

Anyway here is my story.

My name is Dan and i am 24 years old (soon 25 this month arghh) who rest asides in
London UK

i have graduated from university last year obtaining a second degree in Software systems for the Arts and media. Prior before that i graduated in my first degree for computer science.
Basically i done two fast track BA and Bsc degrees and passed.

The problem now is that once i finished last year i sudden had a change of career path.
instead of pursuing acting and filming i decide that i wish to create a career in finance.
as now i am really passionate about finance since i have had some experience working in media and its not my cup of tea anymore and i found what floats my boat.

overall the ideal job i want within finance is something dealing investment or asset management in the future. however i was told and from little research that the best way to start is by becoming a trader or stock broker first to understand the markets and then move on to investment management.

Taking this advice i decide to try and phone up all the trading firms and stock brokerages i could find in london and applied to investment banking graduate schemes.

Grad scheme where unsuccessful

Stock brokerage firms did not pay any attention to me and stated they dont offer work experience even for free and i dont have experience.

As for the trading firms i got a few interviews lined up be i never went to them due to the fact all of the firms i called were proprietary trading and from what i gather you need to have your on capital to trade( something i dont have) Correct me if i am wrong.

At present i am taking a CISI certificate in Securities and FSA regulation to gain a better understand about the industry.

all i want is some advice on which direction i can take to become what i desire.Because i am new to this i lack the knowledge required on how to get into the industry also things about the industry. I find it very difficult and more frustrating as it something want to do
but yet i don't have the degrees or the MBAs to do which puts me to the back of the pile to other.

i do not have money to take another degree and waste a further three years.

so from you guys i need these questions answered:

Am i too old now to get into the financial industry(graduate schemes etc etc)

Is it worth trying, even tho i do not have the right qualifications and should face the facts is not possible anymore?

I heard big firms do not touch people who have working in prop firms? is that true?

Is it worth going to prop firm?

what kinda directions can i take from my situation right now?

Sorry for the long post and bad english, i got a few more question to ask but just can think of them now. however i would appreciate any advice to decide my fate on become a fund or asset manager in the long run or not.

what really ticks me off is when a firm say you don't have experience! how am i suppose to get exp if i don't get any chances to prove myself!

Cheers Dan

 

[Shakone]

Forgive the bluntness

You mention big firms not wanting to employ former prop firm employees. Why is this a consideration? Are big firms crawling over themselves to hire you now? If not, then this is a non-issue. Beggars can't be choosers. Once you've got your foot in the door, then it is about talent. Until then, you're a nobody, all there is to judge you on is your CV, and maybe an interview if you're lucky. Your CV isn't going to be the best they receive. Take whatever opprtunity you can to get into the business (IF it is what you want to do).

There are always some biases, like choose Cambridge or Oxford students over another university student etc. and you may encounter a bias against former prop firm employess. This is life. Most of these issues can be overcome if you're good enough, and willing to put in time and effort and work your way into a better position.

Do you really want a career in trading, or are you just dissatisfied with what you are doing and want to do 'something else'? Reason being, you mentioned you had interviews at prop firms and didn't turn up! Why apply if you are not going to turn up? It suggests either you are not sure about wanting this, or you haven't really researched this career. Because prop firms can pay you a salary and bankroll you.

 

[Muru]

Cheers for the reply, i am not fuss about the bluntness and i respect your advice given.

Forgive the bluntness

You mention big firms not wanting to employ former prop firm employees. Why is this a consideration? Are big firms crawling over themselves to hire you now? If not, then this is a non-issue. Beggars can't be choosers. Once you've got your foot in the door, then it is about talent. Until then, you're a nobody, all there is to judge you on is your CV, and maybe an interview if you're lucky. Your CV isn't going to be the best they receive. Take whatever opprtunity you can to get into the business (IF it is what you want to do).

Reason why i asked that question about prop firms on here is for to get some feedback on how they work and operate as i dont fully understand them.
Also another reason why i stated that is because i have worked in a respectable investment institute before( Barclay capital Investment bank) doing temp IT work.
I briefly spoke to some of the traders there who indicated me that majority of Big firms like barcap don't take on former prop traders. so i been going on that assumption.
And sorry if it came across arrogant, but no they are not crawling over and believe me i am trying to find all possible routes to worm my way in. i even had a 4 man panel interview the other day for just some temp work as financial admin for hedge funds for State Street which i did not get unfortunately. So i am trying every way to get any work related to trading to gain the experience. i am here for some advice from professionals to help me find some core direction.

There are always some biases, like choose Cambridge or Oxford students over another university student etc. and you may encounter a bias against former prop firm employess. This is life. Most of these issues can be overcome if you're good enough, and willing to put in time and effort and work your way into a better position.

Yes i guess theres nothing i can do about than and completely understand that is life.i am not asking for hand outs. i was hoping to see if someone here had been in my position before and made it through successful.

Do you really want a career in trading, or are you just dissatisfied with what you are doing and want to do 'something else'? Reason being, you mentioned you had interviews at prop firms and didn't turn up! Why apply if you are not going to turn up? It suggests either you are not sure about wanting this, or you haven't really researched this career. Because prop firms can pay you a salary and bankroll you.

The prop firms interviews came after two month since i applied when i never knew nothing about how they operate, during that time i found out how they worked which change my circumstances. both STATED there was not a salary involved and i would to sustain myself for months. which i am in no position to do therefore never showed up to take it any further.
Listen mate, i would not be on this forum if i knew i never wanted to have a career in trading. You have to remember and take into consideration i already made the mistake of taking two degrees which i have no passionate for or drive. Obviously i cant turn back time but only rectify as i go along now. that is why is important to obtain decent advice so i cannot dig a deeper hole for myself.there are many job sectors and titles dealing with trading and investment management to know which one right.

i came on here to see if anyone else has been in the same position, where you think its too late but made it through even in this terrible UK job market where every is experience related. i would like to know which paths they took in order to get there keeping some hope alive for me.

maybe i should have been clearer, that the advice i seek are different pathways into trading without solely having to go through prop trading.

Cheers Dan

 

[Shakone]

Yeah the reason I mentioned it was because your interviewers will likely ask questions about why you did those degrees, why you didn't go back to BarCap after the internship if you wanted to work in finance, why now etc.

Ok, if I was you I would:

1) Use any contacts you have at BarCap (or any elsewhere) to help you get an interview.

2) Assuming you meet the requirements, apply to the graduate schemes again (go through assessment centres, I assume you've been through all that before and have the required grades since you did an internship at BarCap). That will obviously be for a job for next year. You mention they were unsuccessful. Why is that? You're not too old, and there will be some applying who are older than you. If there is no significant reason why they were unsuccessful, try again.

3) Apply to all others that you can apply to now. Search out which prop firms do pay you a salary, apply to those. Apply to hedgefunds, smaller banks, EDF, BP etc. Anything that is related to what you want to do.

4) Again, get the foot in the door. Even if that means you have to do a job at a bank you don't particularly like, for example IT. You are skilled in IT. Think of the future. In one year, who looks like the better hire at a bank? The guy who has been working in a bank for a year (albeit not trading) and has a clear idea what he wants to do, or the guy who has been working in media, with no clear direction?

5) Again, I know that they may say in BarCap they don't hire from prop. And that might be true, I can't say. Some firms like you to have the investment banking training. The better the firm, the more respected the training. But it might be that they are speaking about particular roles. There are many types of trader for which working at a prop firm wouldn't give you much relevant experience.

Also what does the statement that they won't hire prop really mean? If you go through grad scheme and have been working in a prop firm in the meantime for 6-9 months, I don't believe that will eliminate you. If you work in prop for a year, then a hedgefund for a couple of years, do you think they still wouldn't hire you if you were excellent at your job?

Focus on getting in somewhere that you can learn. And good luck Dan.