Heart rate when trading...

[Black Swan]

So whilst packing my bag for the gym, got the heart rate montior out and thought I'd put it on for the last hour whilst trading. Resting HR between 58-62, typically rises to 77 when taking trade. When unconsciously competent ( shorting cable at 8:50 without thinking just doing) only rises to 64...closing trade at 9:45 still around 64, however, when thinking of going long straight away rate rose to 77...
er....can't think of the point of this post now.... any Doctors in 'da house?

 

[Glenn]

Your signature kinda says it.
Increased heart rate in these circumstances = Fear, as in "Fight or Flight" - due to adrenaline.
Better to have a steady pulse imho- but then I'm not a Doctor.

Glenn

 

[Black Swan]

Your signature kinda says it.
Increased heart rate in these circumstances = Fear, as in "Fight or Flight" - due to adrenaline.
Better to have a steady pulse imho- but then I'm not a Doctor.

Glenn

I wonder if the better unconscious competent trades ('in the zone' as Mark Douglas might term it), also correspond with the low stress ones? You simply know they're right. If I totally relax I can get the heart rate down to low 50's, I'm thinking this might also represent the right state of mind to place trades...am I making sense?

 

[Rossini]

I wonder if the better unconscious competent trades ('in the zone' as Mark Douglas might term it), also correspond with the low stress ones? You simply know they're right. If I totally relax I can get the heart rate down to low 50's, I'm thinking this might also represent the right state of mind to place trades...am I making sense?

Unconscious traders? Don't you mean subconscious trader? An unconscious trader would be no good to anyone;-)

 

[trendie]

So whilst packing my bag for the gym, got the heart rate montior out and thought I'd put it on for the last hour whilst trading. Resting HR between 58-62, typically rises to 77 when taking trade. When unconsciously competent ( shorting cable at 8:50 without thinking just doing) only rises to 64...closing trade at 9:45 still around 64, however, when thinking of going long straight away rate rose to 77...
er....can't think of the point of this post now.... any Doctors in 'da house?

This reminds me of the thread about precognition.
there was some Dean Radin type work which showed people were shown randomly positive images, and disturbing images.
They were hooked up to an EEG and other equipment.
Upshot was, people seemed to "know" whether a disturbing image was about to be shown, since their heart-rates went up and their skin-galvanic responses showed tension or concern. But these responses went up just BEFORE the image was shown.

Maybe, you should wire yourself up, and trade. Then, when you are about to take a trade, if your heart-rate doesnt go up, take the trade. Maybe some part of your mind knows the outcome, and is trying to warn you of bad trades.

Hey! I might try that myself.

(More prosaicly, if you're engaging your brain, your brain sees too many inconsistencies and conflicts, and gets the heart upset.
That is, you are trying to force-fit a trade.
Maybe the easy, profitable trades are literally no-brainers.)

 

[counter_violent]

Four stages of competence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[theSheik]

sounds like you're gambling not trading....

 

[superspurs]

any chance of getting one with a usb lead,you could have a new indicator under your charts

 

[Technically Fundamental]

So whilst packing my bag for the gym, got the heart rate montior out and thought I'd put it on for the last hour whilst trading. Resting HR between 58-62, typically rises to 77 when taking trade. When unconsciously competent ( shorting cable at 8:50 without thinking just doing) only rises to 64...closing trade at 9:45 still around 64, however, when thinking of going long straight away rate rose to 77...
er....can't think of the point of this post now.... any Doctors in 'da house?

I'd test the rate and see if there was a correlation between winners and losers. Your subconscious may have been tryin to tell you something.

 

[Glenn]

I wonder if the better unconscious competent trades ('in the zone' as Mark Douglas might term it), also correspond with the low stress ones? You simply know they're right. If I totally relax I can get the heart rate down to low 50's, I'm thinking this might also represent the right state of mind to place trades...am I making sense?

Agree about the Douglas comment - my favourite 'trading' book.
Just like crossing the road, when the time comes, you just do it. Until then, you don't. Nothing to get wound up about.

Best time to check your resting pulse is as soon as you wake up naturally in the morning (not with an alarm !) and before you get out of bed.

Glenn

 

[Black Swan]

Unconscious traders? Don't you mean subconscious trader? An unconscious trader would be no good to anyone;-)

Nope, you move from conscious competence to unconscious competence; all the signals/indicators are right and you take it in a heartbeat.

 

[Black Swan]

This reminds me of the thread about precognition.
there was some Dean Radin type work which showed people were shown randomly positive images, and disturbing images.
They were hooked up to an EEG and other equipment.
Upshot was, people seemed to "know" whether a disturbing image was about to be shown, since their heart-rates went up and their skin-galvanic responses showed tension or concern. But these responses went up just BEFORE the image was shown.

Maybe, you should wire yourself up, and trade. Then, when you are about to take a trade, if your heart-rate doesnt go up, take the trade. Maybe some part of your mind knows the outcome, and is trying to warn you of bad trades.

Hey! I might try that myself.

(More prosaicly, if you're engaging your brain, your brain sees too many inconsistencies and conflicts, and gets the heart upset.
That is, you are trying to force-fit a trade.
Maybe the easy, profitable trades are literally no-brainers.)[/QUOTE]

Good points buddy, more experienced traders than me often talk re. trading being boring, mechanical... I'm hoping to reach a state of mind where the competence is so thorough and the support/belief system so entrenched, that it becomes effortless and TBH once your strat. and edge is sound (and you've moved on to stripping off the indicators instinctively knowing where the price action is) trading should be effortless...

Again Douglas talks re. the opportunity flow, my better trading days have had flow to them, a relaxed rhythm. I likened it in the past to waterski-ing; smoothly taking each buoy (stochastic turn?) and concentrating on the next challenge...

 

[Black Swan]

sounds like you're gambling not trading....

Moi?

 

[Rossini]

Nope, you move from conscious competence to unconscious competence; all the signals/indicators are right and you take it in a heartbeat.

Ha! Just flicked through the book, thats me told. Looks like im going to have to re-read...

 

[new_trader]

So whilst packing my bag for the gym, got the heart rate montior out and thought I'd put it on for the last hour whilst trading. Resting HR between 58-62, typically rises to 77 when taking trade. When unconsciously competent ( shorting cable at 8:50 without thinking just doing) only rises to 64...closing trade at 9:45 still around 64, however, when thinking of going long straight away rate rose to 77...
er....can't think of the point of this post now.... any Doctors in 'da house?

I have noticed that when I have been patient and waited for the trades to just jump-out at me, and I know it is the right time to act, there is no fear or hesitation in entering an order, my heart doesn't race and the trades are ALWAYS a winner. When I have become impatient and think I should be entering, and think I am doing the right thing, my heart races and the trades end up a loser or barely scrape by with a profit. It was interesting to see the 4 stages of competence. I would have to say that trades made with a stage 4 competence always win and trades made with a stage 3 competence sometimes win and sometimes don't. I can't explain (to myself) why I can't remain at stage 4 all the time! That is what I am still working on.

3.Conscious competence
The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires a great deal of consciousness or concentration.

4. Unconscious competence
The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it becomes "second nature" and can be performed easily (often without concentrating too deeply). He or she may or may not be able teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

SOCRATES said to me: "Because trading involves 10 % technical application and the other 90% is the application of thought, of the correct thought in order to achieve positive results.
Unfortunately, emotions get in the way of this thinking rendering it imperfect. These emotive responses have to be eliminated in order to make the thinking and hence the reasoning and the result of that reasoning, flawless."

That is so true!

 

[new_trader]

No brainers are winners...I like it!

 

[arabianights]

I think I've mentioned this before, but schneider measure your pulse rate during trading exercises as part of their selection process...

 

[tss42]

...I can't explain (to myself) why I can't remain at stage 4 all the time!...

New_trader, your trading performance is a direct reflection of your life. You have clearly made huge progress in the right direction under the guidance of a really special person, there is no question about that. But your not being able to stay in that state shows there is still a want for something, and some kind of a fear, in your life, which you must overcome.

Don't force yourself (and I am sure you won't) to find the answer. It will come naturally to you one day. I have however found, staying away from trading for a few days/weeks, and a change of the scenery can help.

 

[Technically Fundamental]

Wtf is all that about. Why do people talk about trading as though its the force. NT you've only been trading for a few years. I bet you'll feel comfortable and in stage four when you've been in the game for 10+ by which time you will have total belief in your ability.