Financial Betting fantasy wish list

[longview]

I've looked at some of these sites and had a bit of a go on the big ones. This is something I'm interested in getting in to but I keep hearing all these scare stories. Are any of the bookies open to having winners? i guess not eh?

I'm going to start a wish list of all the things that I'd want to see from a financial betting site:

- accepting all bets
- quick acceptance of bets
- charts
- quick payment
- markets calendar
- news feed?
- ???????????

please add any others you can think of!

 

[HappyArber]

1. easy to use interface
2. helpful customer services !!!

 

[gataylor]

Things I'd like to see...

1. Stop losses.
2. Limit orders.
3. Trailing stop losses.
4. Public, live, computer-readable price data, so that I can have something automatically 'watch' for certain scenarios.
5. An API so that I can write software to automate trades.
6. A macro language so I can 'script' trades.
7. Transparency around what will and won't be accepted as bets (akin to Level 2 data for shares)

I'd like to see all of them, and I think they'd be great for folks that use binary bets. For various reasons I can't see any of them happening though.

But I can dream.

Geoff

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

1. Stop losses.
2. Limit orders.
3. Trailing stop losses.
4. Public, live, computer-readable price data, so that I can have something automatically 'watch' for certain scenarios.
5. An API so that I can write software to automate trades.
6. A macro language so I can 'script' trades.
7. Transparency around what will and won't be accepted as bets (akin to Level 2 data for shares)

Most of that list will be available as features in my Betfair API interface within around 6 months or so... (items 2 and 7 are already featured, item 1 is coming soon)

 

[gataylor]

Most of that list will be available as features in my Betfair API interface within around 6 months or so... (items 2 and 7 are already featured, item 1 is coming soon)

Interesting. I've mostly ignored Betfair because when it crops up here people complain about liquidity. And when I read posts about BinarySoft I'd assumed it was a Betfair program for market makers, so I never bothered investigating further. Now that I know different I may check it out...

Oh, and I thought of another wish list item:

• More ladders.

I like the way that ladders (such as 'FTSE to close over X', 'FTSE to close over X + 10', 'FTSE to close over X + 20') give you more opportunities to access 80/20 prices, if that's your thing.

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

Yeah BDI is mainly aimed at traders at the moment, although it will eventually have full automation so it can be used for pretty much any purpose. Also, not sure why people on here keep calling it "BinarySoft", the program is called "BinarySoft BDI" or just "BDI" for short, BinarySoft is the name of the company... (people don't refer to Microsoft Word as "Microsoft" )

 

[gataylor]

Also, not sure why people on here keep calling it "BinarySoft", the program is called "BinarySoft BDI" or just "BDI" for short, BinarySoft is the name of the company... (people don't refer to Microsoft Word as "Microsoft" )

Well, to be fair, Microsoft does have more than one product.

There's a tendency to use the shortest name possible to clearly and unambiguously define what someone is talking about. The ice hocky team here in Belfast used to be sponsored by Harp, a brand of beer. They insisted everyone refer to the team as the 'Harp Lager Belfast Giants'. No one really did, except for those who were being paid by Harp through spoonsorship or advertising. It seemed silly to me that they would think people would take to that name.

So I can understand why people shorten the name here. 'BDI' doesn't really communicate anything, so using it on its own would confuse more than inform, and it doesn't add any differentiation to the overall name (there's no ADI or CDI, or anything else). It may stand for something (I haven't checked), but if it does it's not obvious. Adding it to BinarySoft in my post wouldn't have helped the reader (they'd either know about BinarySoft already or would have to look to find out more) and it wouldn't have helped me (I'd have had to type more, and I'd have had to spend extra time looking up the name because, as I said, BDI doesn't really communicate anything to me). And it's probably better to settle for folks calling the product BinarySoft instead of 'Thon BinarySoft doobry'.

None of which really has anything to do with wishlists for financial betting. Sorry about that.

Geoff

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

Well, to be fair, Microsoft does have more than one product.

Fair point.

So I can understand why people shorten the name here. 'BDI' doesn't really communicate anything, so using it on its own would confuse more than inform, and it doesn't add any differentiation to the overall name (there's no ADI or CDI, or anything else). It may stand for something (I haven't checked), but if it does it's not obvious.

http://www.binarysoft.co.uk/bdi/introduction.php

BDI primarily stands for Binary Dealing Interface, which is self-explanatory, but it is also a play on words...

 

[longview]

BDI primarily stands for Binary Dealing Interface, which is self-explanatory, but it is also a play on words...

A play on words?

do you mean Beady Eye? As in your software allows you to keep a beady eye on what people using it are doing?

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

do you mean Beady Eye? As in your software allows you to keep a beady eye on what people using it are doing?

Not exactly We have strict privacy policies - the only data transmitted between the user and BinarySoft is the data needed to install the software, all other information is sent direct to the Betfair API secure servers (SSL/TLS).

"Beady Eye" mainly applies to the way BDI combines both selections onto one ladder for binary markets on Betfair, creating a better overview of the market and highlighting certain trading opportunities which aren't available with other interfaces. Also, BDI v2.1 will be able to monitor an unlimited number of markets simultaneously in a very compact and efficient way.

 

[telcobert]

1. Stop losses.
2. ...

Geoff,
I'd challenge the first on the list (and let's see about some others):
Why would you need a stop loss for a binary? Binaries run very short periods and saving one trip (half round) by playing the stochastics I can preserve capital.
So: Drop or keep stop-loss?
Bert

 

[gataylor]

Why would you need a stop loss for a binary? Binaries run very short periods and saving one trip (half round) by playing the stochastics I can preserve capital.

Well, I'd like stop losses because I can see how they'd be useful to me.

Binaries typically move quickly between the 35 - 65 range, where the underlying is around parity. If I've been fortunate enough to get in at 30 and seen the price rise to 70, I'd like to be able to put a stop loss on the bet so that if it does drop into the 'quick fall' range I still keep the bulk of my profits, without having to actively manage it.

Another way of looking at the same example is to say that my initial risk was 30, but since the price has risen my risk is now 70, and that may be more than I'm comfortable with. A stop loss would allow me to manage my risk better.

(Trailing stop losses might be even more useful, but given how volatile binaries can be between 35 and 65 I'm not sure how well they'd work in practice.)

Do you see what I mean, or am I being a muppet?

Geoff

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

What about the following situation:

1) In BDI v2.1 (upcoming release), you have open positions in an hourly FTSE intraday, DJIA Daily and Dow Jones Daily (and possibly others as well), all being monitored from within BDI.

2) There is some sudden news which causes all stock markets to spike...

Having a SL set for each market in BDI would help you to automatically and very quickly get out of your position on any market when your trades go the wrong way

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

I'd like to be able to put a stop loss on the bet so that if it does drop into the 'quick fall' range I still keep the bulk of my profits, without having to actively manage it.

This is one of the situations in which SL's will be very useful...

 

[gataylor]

This is one of the situations in which SL's will be very useful...

I think so, but I'm not sure Bert agrees.

Interestingly, I hear Bets For Traders will have 'stop losses' and 'stop profits' soon, as well as the much-needed ability to sell bets back.

Geoff

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

Interestingly, I hear Bets For Traders will have 'stop losses' and 'stop profits' soon, as well as the much-needed ability to sell bets back.

SL's would be handy for BetsForTraders and BetOnMarkets because AFAIK they don't need to bias the opening/strike prices. SL's would be pretty pointless for IG/CityIndex/ChoiceOdds/etc. as they probably bias their prices substantially according to net position, betting patterns, etc. Plus, they could in theory just skew the prices for a few seconds to trigger stops.

 

[telcobert]

1. ...not sure Bert agrees.
2. Bets For Traders ... will have ... 'stop profits' soon...

Hey Taylor,

On pt 1: I halfway can agree, bit of mulling is left. Your explanation sounds good, in consideration of the fast odds move in that band. Trying to come with grips with it... It could either mean (a) that you have a certain leverage goal rather than a stochastic goal or (b) that the point spread outside 30/70 is relatively expensive. Any of those relevant?

On pt 2: "Stop profits"?!? What a product name, could be their new strategy towards customers? In any case, sounds like a marketing genius at work ... :cheesy:

Bert

 

[telcobert]

Plus, they could in theory just skew the prices for a few seconds to trigger stops.

Well how far ist the way from theory to practice. Such firms knowing all the orders, prices and limits of their customers... It would not need a rocket scientist to figure out some nice oscillations.

If I was a cynic I'd suspect that it was just a leak: the real product name is "Stop profits", officially sold as "Stop losses"

Bert

 

[BinarySoft Chris]

Well how far ist the way from theory to practice. Such firms knowing all the orders, prices and limits of their customers... It would not need a rocket scientist to figure out some nice oscillations.

As you say it probably wouldn't be that hard to implement, but it would cause very bad publicity. I don't expect a SL feature to be added by the "quoting" financial bookmakers any time soon.

 

[fibonelli]

1. "Fill or Kill" orders
2. Refund all losses <tongue firmly in cheek smiley>