Do you trade in the "zone"?

[..]

Hi

I'd like to just ask does anyone out there trade in the zone? as described by Douglas in his book


I found a good site worth checking out www.brettsteenbarger.com (save it to favorites as you'll never remember the name!) - he talks about this mental state to be in that means you'll be able to trade profitably

It probably exists but how to get there?!

I can believe it would help not to be distracted by nagging doubts about whether your system is going to give you winning trades and help you apply it

anyone got any thoughts on this?

cheers
Mark

 

[JumpOff]

I've had a few times where I made one successful trade after another - with hardly even a small loser in between. These times are rare. I use to think it was me. Now when I look back and the charts, I see that the market action was strong and smooth - no chop. - So I think it was just a matter of trading when the conditions were good.

The zone I'm working on right now is the one called "sit on your hands and be patient."
JO

 

[FTSE Beater]

Hi Newport

I've just been re-reading "Trading in the Zone"
To get into the zone is not something you can just do. It happens over time and it is a strange feeling when you get it.

Page 36/37 of the Trading int the Zone book. Douglas writes:

Even though you cannot force or will yourself into a zone, you can set up the kind of mental conditions that are most conducive to experiencing "the zone" by developing a positive winning attitude.

Getting into the zone comes from consistently following a trading plan, which leads to a full understanding of the trading plan.

 

[Salty Gibbon]

Getting into the zone comes from consistently following a trading plan, which leads to a full understanding of the trading plan.

It can also come from just trading a few stocks and getting to know those stocks so well that you have an instinctive feel for their market behaviour.

 

[Buk]

It can also come from just trading a few stocks and getting to know those stocks so well that you have an instinctive feel for their market behaviour.

absolutely......know your instrument(s) as well as your method of trading them....well said that man

 

[Salty Gibbon]

I found "Trading in the Zone" tedious and boring.

A largely forgettable book which I sold to a member on these boards after failing to finish it.

Yawn and a big thumbs down.

 

[dbphoenix]

Never read the book though - would the posters here generally reccomend it or not?

GJ

At the time I read it and The Disciplined Trader, I thought both were great. But Zen and The Art Of Poker has essentially the same message in far fewer pages, plus Douglas does tend to over-write, bless his heart.

On the other hand, would ZTAOP have had the impact that it did if I hadn't read Douglas' two books first? Can't say. Perhaps not. So, if you're a reader, I'd suggest plowing your way through The Disciplined Trader, which has to do with how your belief systems affect your trading (which is just about everybody), then Trading in the Zone, which is more geared toward choosing a strategy, developing tactics for it, and testing the whole thing, then the Zen book. But don't buy the Douglas books. Get them from the library. It's unlikely you'll want to read them twice. But then there may be those who'd grab them first if their house were on fire.

 

[..]

I am glad I am not the only one to find Disciplined trader heavy going - are there any other recommended sources about how to develop the right attitudes/beliefs to trade well out there - they seem a bit thin on the ground, but it might just be because its a bit wishy washy stuff and hard to apply??

 

[dbphoenix]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "right attitudes/beliefs"?

 

[..]

Hi

Well it seems to me that you need to be able to step back from the action and trade objectively and believe that your trading system is going to give you profitable trades - otherwise why bother,

so I mean, how do you get to the point of having faith /discipline in following your trading system - if it hasnt yeilded consistently profitable results (or do you just find another system!!?)

 

[dbphoenix]

Did it ever yield consistently profitable results?

 

[..]

Did it ever yield consistently profitable results?

In paper trading

 

[dbphoenix]

I don't mean to offend, but you may not have done it right.

If you've already exceeded the longest string of losing trades that you had in paper trading, then it's time to start over.

What's the strategy, reversals, retracements, or breakouts?

 

[JumpOff]

the importance of being focused

I'm sitting on the sidelines today. Gawd, one of the most volatile days I've seen and I'm sitting on the sidelines! I wish I could say I feel bad about it, but here's the deal. - I am not 'in the zone.' I've had about a dozen interuptions this morning - I can't concentrate, my son's home from school nursing a broken bone, so I'm just sitting here with my money in my pocket, and I'll wait for another day when the charts make sense....
JO

 

[nine]

I am glad I am not the only one to find Disciplined trader heavy going - are there any other recommended sources about how to develop the right attitudes/beliefs to trade well out there - they seem a bit thin on the ground, but it might just be because its a bit wishy washy stuff and hard to apply??

Newport, Douglas is the best argument for ghost writers that I have yet to come across, but the book really has what is required in it. I felt it was wishy washy as well until I realised that the key comes down to his sequence of 20 trades. Until you actually do 20 trades following your written plan exactly you won't start to develop the "feeling."

It lets you internalise the discussion of fears and build an understanding of probability into your mind.

Marks way is the design, test (paper), execute approach; and the psychological comfort will follow. Brett Steenbarger, Ruth Roosevelt, Van Tharp and others (start with Bretts site) can help with extra psych tactics if you are unable to follow the plan but if you can follow the plan then everything else will fall into place.

 

[ardhill]

Just to throw in my 2c worth (which isn't much considering the GBP/USD rate these days )

I also read Trading in the Zone, It was HARD going and took me a long time, but I kept going...

When I finished it, I was glad that I had kept reading, I believed it really helped me. Even after the work it took me to get through it, I do intend to read it again in a while. As I feel it is good for me to read, the effort is worth it for the outcome.

By the way, someone on this board recommended a site a while ago which I am suggesting to anyone interested on this thread...

http://www.innerworth.com/

You can sign up for a free daily e-mail that is basically about the psychological aspects of trading - in an easier to read format than Trading In The Zone.

Mark Douglas is on 'the board' on this site along with a few others.

 

[Blithe]

When to Trade?

I'm sitting on the sidelines today. Gawd, one of the most volatile days I've seen and I'm sitting on the sidelines! I wish I could say I feel bad about it, but here's the deal. - I am not 'in the zone.' I've had about a dozen interuptions this morning - I can't concentrate, my son's home from school nursing a broken bone, so I'm just sitting here with my money in my pocket, and I'll wait for another day when the charts make sense....
JO

JumpOff, if it helps, nothing wrong about sitting on the sidelines once in a while. Trading is a bit like playing a game of cricket... When you are a batsman out of form, you find it a bit difficult to see the ball clearly, you scratch around for a while, gets beaten, gives a few edges.... until he has that one good innings with the bat, does wonders to his confidence, gets back his touch, and starts seeing the cricket ball as clear & big as a football

And its to your credit if you don't take too many positions in such a time that you are short of "the feel" for the market - that's money down the drain if you do! But as you watch the market sitting on the sidelines, gradually you get back the feel for it - may take a few hours, maybe several days - one fine day, you are back in the game, and sailing high. Like GJ mentioned, there's no such luxury for the pros, they got to make a price no matter what they feel, no matter what the markets are like (even on the NF payrolls time ;-) )

Good Luck

 

[chump]

"you get back the feel for it "...depends what you mean by this...by the same token you might just be describing the fact that when peope have had a bad run or a scare they have to stay 'off the horse' for a while before the memory dissipates enough for them to get back on in which case this has nothing to do with a change in "feel"/performance at all..just a change (fade) in short term memory..

Douglas had some pertinent points , but it was interspersed with lots of psychobabble...the main zone I am interested in is the 'tax free' zone

 

[dbphoenix]

After reading all these posts about "feeling", it seems to me that there is a fundamental misunderstanding about what these books are and what they're supposed to do. No, I would not have explained the concepts the same way that Douglas does, but he took much the same course that I did in one of the chapters in my e-book (and, oddly, at about the same time) and "feeling" has very little to do with any of it until one has reached a level that can take years to reach, if ever (and which need not be reached at all in order to trade successfully and to do it consistently).

Fact is, few traders have a plan. Therefore, all the talk about feeling and being intuitive and being in synch and so on is largely a shell game for not having done the necessary work.

 

[JumpOff]

After reading all these posts about "feeling", it seems to me that there is a fundamental misunderstanding about what these books are and what they're supposed to do. No, I would not have explained the concepts the same way that Douglas does, but he took much the same course that I did in one of the chapters in my e-book (and, oddly, at about the same time) and "feeling" has very little to do with any of it until one has reached a level that can take years to reach, if ever (and which need not be reached at all in order to trade successfully and to do it consistently).

Fact is, few traders have a plan. Therefore, all the talk about feeling and being intuitive and being in synch and so on is largely a shell game for not having done the necessary work.

For me, it's not so much a matter of feeling or intuition as one of 'focus.' I see it the same as working a difficult math problem, or playing a tough piece of music. Although there are pretty rigid rules for accomplishing both of these things, and I may be able to complete them with competence most of the time, my performance is better when I am not interrupted, when I don't have to do two things at once, when I don't have to converse, etc.......

JO