Do I have a chance?

[Woland]

Hi everyone,

Do I have any chance whatsoever of becoming a trader? I'll just outline my situation (any help or advice would be greatly welcomed):-

I just recently (about four months ago) realised that I want to become a trader. Not a bad idea in itself, but I can't shake the feeling (backed up to a great degree by what I've read from various sources) that I'm fighting a losing battle. Firstly, I'm going to be 28 in October (too old); secondly, my academic backgorund is as far from being maths-related as is humanly possible - UG degree in Russian studies, MA in Russian Literature, and I'm finishing off a PhD in, you guessed it, Russian Literature. Now, my degree results are top notch (first with distinction in spoken Russian, distinction in my masters etc.), but this is hardly what the average trading desk is looking for is it? I've become increasingly aware that my degrees are not really related to anything real and I just don't want to pursue a career path related to my educational background (if you ca believe it, my PG studies were a kind of stop-gap, because, after my BA, I really didn't have a clue what I wanted to do). This is not to say that I pulled trading out of a hat - I'm pretty much hooked, and more so with every passing day.

Anyway, I have zero experience in the field (no internships or the like) and the last time I studied maths was 12 years ago at GCSE (got an A, mind) - so it's a bit rusty to say the least. I guess I'm just asking for some advice on what I could do next or, more precisely, if it's even worth trying. I've been considering getting some relevant qualifications to make my CV look somewhat trading-related - everything from SII's new Introduction to Investment Award, to the IMC, to the SII Certificate in Securities and Derivatives, to the Eurex exams, STA, CFA, CQF (although that requires a high level of maths), MSc in International Securities, Investment and Banking Specialisms from the ICMA Centre at Reading University, to A-Level Maths or some OU course in maths - or some combination of these qualifications. The only thing I'm worried about is time (being 28, as I said) - I have no doubts that I'll be able to pass any exam that I decide to take, but I don't really want to fork out a load of cash if I'm just going to get rejected on the grounds that I'm nearly thirty and didn't have my career path planned out from the age of 16.

In terms of getting 'experience', I've been looking at getting my foot in the door (in the finncial industry in general ) through various means (prop firms, by the way, don't seem to be interested) - retail banking (!), insurance, ops, etc. etc., but even entry-level positions require either experience or some form of qualificaion. I'm really beginning to regret my indecisiveness as a young man and undergraduate.

My best bet at the moment seems to be through my only contact - a friend of a friend - who works for a discount brokerage (TD Waterhouse). I may be able to squeeze in there and get some general knowledge about investment instuments and the like.

Thanks to all who read to the end of this post. If could offer any advice, suggestions, or general comments, anything you have to say would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

Phil

 

[Trader333]

On purely statistical basis, you have around a 90% chance of failing to be consistently profitable. Success depends on many aspects most of which you can learn on these forums.


Paul

 

[Spam Man]

I want to help you Woland.

 

[Woland]

On purely statistical basis, you have around a 90% chance of failing to be consistently profitable. Success depends on many aspects most of which you can learn on these forums.


Paul

Erm, this may be true, but I don't really see how this relates to my original post. Please explain.

 

[Woland]

I want to help you Woland.

That's very nice to hear. I want to be helped...

 

[barjon]

...........................in terms of getting 'experience', I've been looking at getting my foot in the door (in the finncial industry in general ) through various means (prop firms, by the way, don't seem to be interested) - retail banking (!), insurance, ops, etc. etc....................,
Phil

phil

Hope you're making the most of your fluency in Russian. Have you tried finding out houses that are "into Russia" and offering your services as a researcher?

good luck in your quest.

jon

 

[Joviancaldera]

I want to help you Woland.

Ha ha ha! Spam Man you are a god!

 

[Woland]

Same advice I give every time I hear this question - what do you want to trade? How do you want to trade? Why do you think this is something you want to do?

There are lots of jobs out there that either have the word 'trader' in the job title or share some of the characteristics of what most people think of as trading. I had one guy contact me once asking pretty much the same thing. Once I walked him through the various options he / we figured out that what he really wanted to be was a salesperson on a trading floor. No idea if he ever made it but at least he got a bit of focus.

Your question right now is a bit like "I want to be a sportsman" imho. Can't know whether you have any chance of making it until you work out with a bit more clarity what you actually want.

Good luck

GJ

Thanks for the reply. I realised that my post was a bit open-ended. The reason for this is because I didn't want to make my situation sound even more gloomy: I'm interested in trading derivatives (which needs good maths skills!); I don't really have any kind of product preference at the moment (I'm still researching), although I am quite attracted to the energy sector. Why do I want to become a trader? Money is the bog-standard answer! Aside from this, I am drawn games that involve designing and implementing complex strategies based on numerical data (kind of like American Football or Poker times 1000!). I am also incredibly disciplined and self-motivated (doing a PhD and all). Anyway, I feel like I'm writing a covering letter, so I'll sign off...

 

[Woland]

phil

Hope you're making the most of your fluency in Russian. Have you tried finding out houses that are "into Russia" and offering your services as a researcher?

good luck in your quest.

jon

Thanks for your reply, jon. I've scoured the websites of dozens of prop firms, but none seem to have a presence or interest in Russia (except Velez Capital, or something like that, and I'm not stupid enough to pay money that I haven't got to trade as a novice). Maybe I've been looking at the wrong firms. I don't mean to ask for more than I am entitled to, but if anyone could push me in the direction of houses that have an active interest in the Russian market, that would be great. In the meantime, I'll continue looking myself.

Thanks

Phil

 

[timsk]

Hi Phil,
A couple of comments. Firstly, the emphasis of your post(s) is towards being offered a job (as a trader) by the institutions. Most of the traders on these boards are private retail traders who trade their own accounts from home. (GammaJamma being a notable exception). This option will always remain open to you even if you fail to land that dream job in 'the city'.

Secondly, the link below might be of some interest and, following on from barjon's comments above, contact with china white might prove useful. However, he's rarely seen around here these days, so it may be difficult to get in touch with him.
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/showthread.php?t=20446
Good luck,
Tim.

 

[Charlton]

Use your strengths, get a foothold and then eliminate your weaknesses

Hi everyone,

Do I have any chance whatsoever of becoming a trader? I'll just outline my situation (any help or advice would be greatly welcomed):-

I just recently (about four months ago) realised that I want to become a trader. Not a bad idea in itself, but I can't shake the feeling (backed up to a great degree by what I've read from various sources) that I'm fighting a losing battle. Firstly, I'm going to be 28 in October (too old); secondly, my academic backgorund is as far from being maths-related as is humanly possible - UG degree in Russian studies, MA in Russian Literature, and I'm finishing off a PhD in, you guessed it, Russian Literature. Now, my degree results are top notch (first with distinction in spoken Russian, distinction in my masters etc.), but this is hardly what the average trading desk is looking for is it? I've become increasingly aware that my degrees are not really related to anything real and I just don't want to pursue a career path related to my educational background (if you ca believe it, my PG studies were a kind of stop-gap, because, after my BA, I really didn't have a clue what I wanted to do). This is not to say that I pulled trading out of a hat - I'm pretty much hooked, and more so with every passing day.

Anyway, I have zero experience in the field (no internships or the like) and the last time I studied maths was 12 years ago at GCSE (got an A, mind) - so it's a bit rusty to say the least. I guess I'm just asking for some advice on what I could do next or, more precisely, if it's even worth trying. I've been considering getting some relevant qualifications to make my CV look somewhat trading-related - everything from SII's new Introduction to Investment Award, to the IMC, to the SII Certificate in Securities and Derivatives, to the Eurex exams, STA, CFA, CQF (although that requires a high level of maths), MSc in International Securities, Investment and Banking Specialisms from the ICMA Centre at Reading University, to A-Level Maths or some OU course in maths - or some combination of these qualifications. The only thing I'm worried about is time (being 28, as I said) - I have no doubts that I'll be able to pass any exam that I decide to take, but I don't really want to fork out a load of cash if I'm just going to get rejected on the grounds that I'm nearly thirty and didn't have my career path planned out from the age of 16.

In terms of getting 'experience', I've been looking at getting my foot in the door (in the finncial industry in general ) through various means (prop firms, by the way, don't seem to be interested) - retail banking (!), insurance, ops, etc. etc., but even entry-level positions require either experience or some form of qualificaion. I'm really beginning to regret my indecisiveness as a young man and undergraduate.

My best bet at the moment seems to be through my only contact - a friend of a friend - who works for a discount brokerage (TD Waterhouse). I may be able to squeeze in there and get some general knowledge about investment instuments and the like.

Thanks to all who read to the end of this post. If could offer any advice, suggestions, or general comments, anything you have to say would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

Phil

Your strength and greatest selling point is Russian.

Your weakness, as far as the financial industry is concerned, is a long period spent as an academic with no experience of the financial sector or even commerce.

IMO you need to build on your strength and quickly gain exposure to commerce and the finance sector in particular.

I think that you might be able to put yourself forward as a candidate to one of the big consultancy firms, but working IN Russia for at least one year. Discuss with them your plans and direction. I have no idea what the recruitment market is like in this area, but at least you will have something to offer that others do not.

At the same time definitely do the introduction to investment course. It is a basic course for people like IT staff do become familar with this area. It's not long, not onerous and at least starts to show your interest.

Once you get an initial foothold you may be able to direct your career in the direction you want, which may well not be exactly as you imagine it now.

Another possibility is to search on sites like www.jobserve.com. You might be able to start getting exposure to the financial area via an IT route. For example this one http://www.jobserve.com/W3B95173FA8B79FFD.job is for global technical support. It's probably quicker for a software company, for example, to train you up in their trading software than to make someone fluent in Russian

It's all about worming your way in and buidling on your strengths.

Keep us informed about how it goes

Charlton

 

[maximm123]

I think you have a good chance of getting a good job at a good institution. Most banks/IDB's say that they like grads from any background not just maths. The fact that you have showed the dedication and intelligence to get a Phd will appeal to a lot of recruiters. Also, the average age of junior traders is about 27 these days as most have at least a masters and more and more a phd. The fact that you are fluent in a language is also a big bonus.

There are a lot of areas in trading..not all are totally maths focused. All require a certain level of numercay and a good understanding of numerical reasoning but I am sure you can brush up on your maths skills.

You just need to be persistant and persuade recruiters that its what you want to do and you will be dedicated and willing to work your **** off for the opportunity. Obvioulsy you should start to read all you can about current market conditions and how major markets move and send you cv to as many recruitment consultants as possible. I know most consultants are **** but getting your cv out there is important.

If I am totally honest I think you stand a better chance of getting into sales. People recruiting for sales roles would love the fact you are fluent in russian and sales is not as maths focused as trading. And I know quite a few people in sales who have moved to trading...

Becoming a broker is always an option. They definately dont need to be good at maths (as long as you can tell that one number is higher than another you shd be ok!) but again IDB's are always looking for people with a language. So fire of a CV to the big 3 (ICAP, Tradition and Tulletts)...

Hope some of this was helps.

 

[Shelly]

try your best!

 

[majicka]

I know it's not the same but have you ever thought of stockbroking?

For someone with less of a mathematical educational background, you probably have a pretty good chance of getting a job.