Different or Better?

[trendie]

I am in a state of flux with my trading.
I have a method that has an edge, and makes money. (essentially a pullback to trend, trend-following)

However, there are other methods that appear to be "better", ie, Sup/Res, pin-bars/inside-bars/outside-bars, etc.

If a better system comes along, I am obligated to myself to adopt the best method.

My issue is: why isnt everyone trading inside/outside-bars and pin-bars?

There are news/momentum-traders, like Mr Charts, and I think, Naz. (US stocks, etc)
There are VWAP traders, like leovirgo, and Grey1. (using maths, probabilities, cycle analysis)
There are breakout players like Newtron-Bomb.

I can understand that different styles are like whether you use Oracle or SAP in your business.

But, if pin-bars are more profitable, why doesnt everyone "upgrade" to pin-bars?

This is causing me some angst.

While I am here, Gammerjammer says says dont trade anything under 1-hr, but there are traders quite happily trading 5-mins and 1-mins.

I feel I must listen to better trained and experienced players.
I sometimes feel that I have been simply lucky, even though I have been trading full-time for close on 2-years. There is also the nagging feeling I could have made more money if I had adopted a different method.

Are these the emotions every trader goes through, or is still going through?

EDIT: incredible number of "I" in there. perhaps this should have been added to my "Confidence" thread?

 

[dcraig1]

But, if pin-bars are more profitable

Who says pin bars are more profitable, or for that matter profitable at all. In general I don't believe a lot of what I read here - or I take it with a grain of salt.

As far as I can see, it is a matter of due dilligence and what level of research one is comfortable with. If one followed up all the stuff (frequently nonsense) written on trading message boards and peddled by gurus it could easily consume a lifetime.

If what you are doing is successful, why not expand it with larger size and/or other markets ?

 

[new_trader]

1) When people talk timeframes, I switch off.
2) When people talk indicators, support and resistance, pin-bars, etc I switch off.
3) When people talk ‘systems’ and pretty coloured lines, I switch off.

Why?

Because when you get down to the nitty-gritty of trading and you begin to understand what is what and what is not you will see that all of the above is all regurgitated kindergarten stuff that you can read in any textbook or on any website.

"But, if pin-bars are more profitable, why doesn’t everyone "upgrade" to pin-bars?"

Yes, why?

All IMHO.

 

[rags2riches]

Who said pinbars are more profitable? TD makes it look ridiculously easy because he has been doing it for a while but pins are just a tool. His experience and interpretation of the market counts for a lot more.

This style of trading also requires extreme patience - you might have to go several weeks without a single trade. This will not suit everyone.

I am of the opinion that if you have a profitable method then keep doing what you are doing. If you want to diversify into IB/OB/pins then demo it on the side. Then you should have a definitive answer whether they are more profitable.

All just imho. Good trading.

 

[trendie]

Who says pin bars are more profitable, or for that matter profitable at all. In general I don't believe a lot of what I read here - or I take it with a grain of salt.

As far as I can see, it is a matter of due dilligence and what level of research one is comfortable with. If one followed up all the stuff (frequently nonsense) written on trading message boards and peddled by gurus it could easily consume a lifetime.

If what you are doing is successful, why not expand it with larger size and/or other markets ?

there is a long-running thread which suggest they are useful. populated by a host of players.

true about grains of salt; but such a long-running thread suggests validity.
true about due diligence.

I think I am successful! But wonder if I could be better.
Its not about increasing size. Its about potentially better risk:reward. and thus, increased ROI.

why do I undermine myself like this?

 

[advfntrader]

you are lucky you are profitable. I haven't made A PENNY in 2 years and have tried numerous systems and methods. I am at my wits end trying to make something work for me. be grateful

 

[KillPhil08]

You should be able to enter at the level on the pinbar that got rejected (end of the tail). Only if it turns into a pin bar it will be confirmation of a longer trend of price in which you can hold for longer than antipicated.

 

[ianp]

Hi Trendie,

It may just be a case of "the grass is always greener on the other side"

Dont forget a H1 pinbar will look like a pullback on the M5.

And the best saying of all ..... if it ain't broke why try and fix it !!

 

[JRP2891]

If you've found a way of trading that suits your personality then i would be reluctant to change it, however maybe your sub-conscious is telling you to try something different as it might not be a perfect fit? There's no harm in demo-ing however be aware you might be doing more harm then good in changing strategies after you've been consistently profitable for a significant time. Maybe you're too much in your comfort zone and your size should be increased now?

 

[JRP2891]

Pin bars are very seductive in that you see the big moves possible by entering off them, however if you can't run your own winners seeing while seeing some pain, what makes you think you can run pin-bar winners?

 

[Rossini]

I am in a state of flux with my trading.
I have a method that has an edge, and makes money. (essentially a pullback to trend, trend-following)

Then I would stick with it and not change methods! I feel its best to become a expert at you chosen MKT, TF and trading style/method rather than keep looking for a more profitable one.

However, there are other methods that appear to be "better", ie, Sup/Res, pin-bars/inside-bars/outside-bars, etc.

If a better system comes along, I am obligated to myself to adopt the best method.

My issue is: why isnt everyone trading inside/outside-bars and pin-bars?

Because surely if everyone traded the same it would become far less profitable or even unprofitable?

There are news/momentum-traders, like Mr Charts, and I think, Naz. (US stocks, etc)
There are VWAP traders, like leovirgo, and Grey1. (using maths, probabilities, cycle analysis)
There are breakout players like Newtron-Bomb.

I can understand that different styles are like whether you use Oracle or SAP in your business.

But, if pin-bars are more profitable, why doesn't everyone "upgrade" to pin-bars?

This is causing me some angst.

While I am here, Gammerjammer says says don't trade anything under 1-hr, but there are traders quite happily trading 5-mins and 1-mins.

I feel I must listen to better trained and experienced players.
I sometimes feel that I have been simply lucky, even though I have been trading full-time for close on 2-years. There is also the nagging feeling I could have made more money if I had adopted a different method.

I have been trading full time for a similar amount of time to you. Surely the fact that so many successful traders trade in so many different ways undermines the argument that Pin bars are more profitable than other methods?

Are these the emotions every trader goes through, or is still going through?

As soon as I found something that I was happy doing I stopped looking and concentrated fully on trying to perfect the style that I have chosen. Having said that I would still like to trade the break of IB's on a 4hr TF just to diversify

EDIT: incredible number of "I" in there. perhaps this should have been added to my "Confidence" thread?

.

 

[VingTsunKuen]

Hey,Trendie...

i guess i could sound now as your psychologist

BUT,i think that your mind is playing games whit you.You have your edge?You were profitable within those 2 years?
What more can you wish!
There are thousands of traders that would do anything to have what you have.
I really do not like to compare others whit my self when it comes to trading.And that is so because they are others.May be i am to much of individual guy,but that is the way i feel comfortable.
Regarding your strategy,you know the best for your self..Friendly suggestion would be to try to see is there something you could do about trade management.Also may be,you could be more meticulous about your entries,taking just those whit 3:1 R/R or higher.This way one could improve his returns.
Cheers,
VTK

 

[Hoggums]

I think you should always be looking to improve your trading. But trendie - if it works don't abandon it. Use any new knowledge to add to or improve your trading.

Switching completely to something untested (on a live account) could be disasterous.

 

[rathcoole_exile]

have you tried drawing 800 trendlines on a chart then going Long Oil without a StopLoss ?
That seems a highly popular, effective approach used by at least one "professional" trader

 

[0007]

I am in a state of flux with my trading.
I have a method that has an edge, and makes money. (essentially a pullback to trend, trend-following)

However, there are other methods that appear to be "better", ie, Sup/Res, pin-bars/inside-bars/outside-bars, etc.

If a better system comes along, I am obligated to myself to adopt the best method.

My issue is: why isnt everyone trading inside/outside-bars and pin-bars?

There are news/momentum-traders, like Mr Charts, and I think, Naz. (US stocks, etc)
There are VWAP traders, like leovirgo, and Grey1. (using maths, probabilities, cycle analysis)
There are breakout players like Newtron-Bomb.

I can understand that different styles are like whether you use Oracle or SAP in your business.

But, if pin-bars are more profitable, why doesnt everyone "upgrade" to pin-bars?

This is causing me some angst.

While I am here, Gammerjammer says says dont trade anything under 1-hr, but there are traders quite happily trading 5-mins and 1-mins.

I feel I must listen to better trained and experienced players.
I sometimes feel that I have been simply lucky, even though I have been trading full-time for close on 2-years. There is also the nagging feeling I could have made more money if I had adopted a different method.

Are these the emotions every trader goes through, or is still going through?

EDIT: incredible number of "I" in there. perhaps this should have been added to my "Confidence" thread?

If it ain't broke - don't fix it!

I've been down your route (couldn't resist trying everything and anything in the old days). I now have "my" system that works for me (and probably wouldn't suit other people) and it's consistently profitable. If I want more (profit) I just trade more - possibly not the most efficient way in pro traders' terms but it keeps me in beer money etc.

If you can make decent returns with your current system on a consistent basis then what could be better? Go and spend some of your profits - reward yourself!

 

[ezreddy]

I have always read that one should not jump from method to method; however, this has always been aimed at the newbie who never made money from a method and jumped to another method because it was better. You certainly do not fall into this category. Sounds like you want to explore another method and I would certainly encourage you to try. Should you abandon your current method? Absolutely not. You certainly could borrow the type of advice that is given to the newbies: paper trade until you understand the method and then start small. I do not know what type of timeframe you trade; ie, daytrader or longer term. If you are a daytrader, then it may be a little more difficult to papertrade without cutting into your current profits. In that case, you could dedicate one day a week to this new proposal and still spend 80% of your time on your proven method. You could even set aside a couple hours a day as an alternate method. As you gain success, you could continue to devote more time to a new method. If it proves to be unsuccessful, then you have something none of the jumping newbies have; a method to return to which you know is successful. All the naysayers are acting as if you don't have a lifeline if you try something new. Do it, but start small.

 

[Mr Squirrel]

I have a method that has an edge, and makes money.

This first statement could be the only statement you need to understand.

However, there are other methods that appear to be "better", ie, Sup/Res, pin-bars/inside-bars/outside-bars, etc.

Does this matter? I refer you to your first statement.

If a better system comes along, I am obligated to myself to adopt the best method.

This is a personal thing, but I would say you are obligated to inevestigate the "best method" by means of testing, whilst continuing with YOUR best method.

My issue is: why isnt everyone trading inside/outside-bars and pin-bars?

Because they're only one ingredient of trading pie.

But, if pin-bars are more profitable, why doesnt everyone "upgrade" to pin-bars?

"More profitable" does not apply to a tool. It's how you use it. With trading I beleive it's either profitable or not. "Profit" is about money. Trading is about points and the arsenal of other stuff that turns those points turn into money.

There is also the nagging feeling I could have made more money if I had adopted a different method.

This sounds like greed. Don't get me wrong; there's nothing wrong with greed. You just have to recognise it.

Are these the emotions every trader goes through, or is still going through?

I don't know because I'm still very new to this, but the whole post sounds like it's been driven by emotions and psycology. I read somewhere this morning about trading being a marathon, not a race. I think that applies here.

Finally, remember your first statement!!!

Best wishes, S

 

[Claudia123]

Finally, remember your first statement!!!

Best wishes, S

Perfect answer. If system works what is the problem ?? Dont be greedy. If spreading use 3 or 4 increase the stake so they won notice you.

 

[RedGreenBen]

My issue is: why isnt everyone trading inside/outside-bars and pin-bars?

I recently crunched a lot of numbers (FX, but probably applies more widely) and that included looking at both these methods. The correlation between them and future price is weak to say the least BUT I still believe people make good money using them.

Why? Because they are using them together with an understanding of how the market behaves. I think that is where most of any edge comes from, the specific approach is just the 'way in' to that.

If you've been profitable for two years you have that understanding/experience and that is what really matters so I wouldn't get too hung up on anything else.

Ben

(OK, I've not explained it that well, but I've just spent 10 hours ignoring pin-bars )

 

[teojh]

trendie just make ur method better.

i have just started out and this is what i do. every month or usually after some big losses, i will try to evolve my method. Just trade the same way its ok. but simply doing a visual backtest of how to enter earlier, how to not give back too much profits (i find this may be the most important for u. i trade pullbacks like u too). how to reduce risk as much as possible. I found using s/r & trendlines (wasp's style) helps in this aspect a lot in reducing stop loss size.
Im happy to let my method grow and get better n better. The core philosophy remains the same. And this is crucial, only when u trade according to ur philosophy. it will be the best fit for u