Custom Build PC

[megamuel]

Hi guys,

I'm thinking of building a PC to use for my trading. Just because I want a little project to occupy my time and I like making things and also because I think I can save a bit of money by building it myself (or make a better PC for the same money!). For example. I looked at a few of the PC's on http://www.multiplemonitors.co.uk/computers/ and my brother, who knows more about computers than me, reckons the spec on those isn't that great for the price and I could build one much cheaper myself.

I watched a few videos and it looks pretty easy to be honest, I think the tricky bit is just choosing the right parts and making sure they are all compatible. So I was going to join a computer forum but I figured some people here might have built their own PC's and will know a thing or two...

So what do I want? I could go on forever picking the best most powerful parts, but realistically what do I need/want?

- I want to be able to link up 3 monitors
- I want it to be pretty quick

That's about it really. I don't need a massive amount of storage space as I'm going to keep this PC for my regular use - internet, emails, music, pictures, etc.... The custom build will be just for trading. I am aiming to spend around £500-£600 not including moitors/keyboard/mouse etc. If I spend more I spend more but I'm trying not to get carried away.

So anyway, here are a few questions I have so far. Hopefully someone will be able to help.

1. When selecting a motherboard, is there any reason to select one size over the other? ATX, Micro ATX, etc... Or is any size ok as long as it fits your case?

2. I want 3 monitors, should I use a graphics card that supports 3 monitors or should I just use 2 graphics cards? Any recommendations? Graphics don't have to be amazing, I'm not gaming or anything, its only charts, as long as I get the 3 screens thats fine.

3. Intel or AMD?

That's all for now! Cheers,

Sam.

 

[new_trader]

It has been many years since I built a PC so my advice might be outdated. However, I have always been interested in desktop video editing (long before it became mainstream) so I can give you some tips on how to go about deciding what you need on your own.

It seems that having 3 monitors is the most important thing to you so my advice would be to research the types of graphics cards FIRST and then build your PC around it. The reason I say this is because quite often when you find a graphics card you want you will find out through support forums and/or the manufacturer that there are compatibility issues with different motherboards and the chipsets they use. They might even recommend the motherboard you should use.

As far as speed is concerned, my advice is to buy the most powerful processor that you can afford and go with the one that has been tested and is known to work with the graphics card you have chosen.

 

[grimesd]

For trading purposes you don't need the most expensive 3D triple X rated graphics card. I would recommend you by a mobo with built-in graphics and get one extra graphics card (most mobos only have 1 PCI-e slot). That should be enough to support your 3 monitors. Form factor is only an issue if you have a specific PC Case in mind, or you think you'll need lots of spare slots for various add-ons. Go for the fastest CPU you can afford.

 

[Black Swan]

sounds like fun Sam, fwiw I reckon multimonitors are very good value, when I broke it down my brother in law 'expert' pc builder could only save me a couple of hundred quid off a 3 monitor set up. And for swing trading my next upgrade to the arsenal is getting a game playing quality laptop, dell alienware style of thing..8gb+ ram etc..

But enjoy the build, why not do it and then give us a write up?

 

[0007]

1. I'd be surprised if you save any money by DIY from scratch - but there is the possibility that you may be able to use some of your old PC bits and pieces e.g. Case & powersupply, hard drives, optical drives etc etc. The problem here maybe that if they are more than a few years old they may have incompatible connectors (this can be overcome with adapters but it can be a bit inelegant). The biggest advantage is that you can tailor your PC exactly to your needs - the problem many non-geek people have is knowing what the appropriate technical specification is to meet their computing requirements.

2. you will learn a lot by DIY (including overcoming problems when it doesn't work as you thought it would) which will make you much better placed when it comes to fixing your PC. If you are not the sort of guy who likes to tinker with his car then you'd probably be better not bothering.

3. if you don't need a very high performance PC for gaming etc then you can buy lower spec components (but I emphasise not lower quality) and your budget of £5-£600 is entirely realistic. Almost any PC will be good enough trading (and web surfing and e-mail) but it's worth thinking about your other considerations also - if you do any amount of video editing or photographic storage you need to take that into account.

MOTHERBOARDS your choice of case will determine size and if you're using an old case the choices made for you. Starting from scratch the usual choice is between ATX and micro-ATX - both are good, it's just that they ATX is slightly larger and can accommodate more add-on cards. I've always used micro- ATX and never found it to be a problem. Unless you want a really dinky looking small format PC case box and like squeezing minimal equipment into minimal space, I would forget mini ITX - it is really small and has its uses but you need to be sure of what you're doing.

INTEL/AMD both are good but I've only ever used Intel processors and chipsets-mainly because my chief requirement is reliability and rocksolid operation. This is what the vast office world use and there is a reason for that. AMD are very good value and tend to be favoured by the overclocking and geek community but in the main often lag behind Intel in performance terms which is why, I suspect, they are often a bit cheaper. If I remember correctly AMD motherboards do not have on board graphics chips which means you always need a separate (and extra cost) graphics card. Many Intel boards come with integral graphics and indeed the latest Sandy Bridge processors (which is probably the way to go if you're using Intel) have the graphics integrated on the chip.

Also, if you are intending to use speech recognition software (this is what I'm doing now-look mum, no hands!) then you will need a fast processor with a good amount level II cache and a decent amount of RAM.

I've just built a new PC as follows (all my bits [except RAM] sourced from Amazon-good prices and never any quibbles if it needs to be returned). I had an old case with powersupply, hard drives and optical reader which I reused.

A. CPU-Intel Sandy Bridge I5 -- 2300 £140
B. motherboard-Gigabyte GA-H67M-UD2H-B3 £70
C. RAM from Crucial- 8GB about £70
(Gigabyte and ASUS are both top-notch motherboard makes which I've always used and never had any problems). Note that the Intel H 67 chipset series are fitted to motherboards that have on board/on chip graphics and therefore come with output connectors for your monitor(s). If you use the Intel P 67 chipset series (which are required for serious overclocking) you will not only pay a lot more-probably about £50, but will need a graphics card additionally, because these motherboards do not have an integral output for your monitor. Many socket 1155 (that's fitting for the CPU and you need to be careful here because not all CPUs fit all motherboards) motherboards have the ability to support two monitors and can also run a graphics card output simultaneously (but again check-many motherboards are produced in various versions, some of which cannot do this. The best way to check I find, is to download the manufacturers manual from their website and read it-it will explain in the small print somewhere! Be wary of accepting retailers comments or advice-it's not always reliable).

In the motherboard I quote above you can run two monitors without any extra graphics card. If you need more monitors then just buy a cheap graphics card that has a dual output (£30-£35 would do the trick). I initially considered doing this because I wanted 4 monitors but what I ended up doing (and I've found it surprisingly, more convenient) is to run two monitors off my old Pentium PC and a further two off the new one, all controlled by one keyboard and mouse. This gives loads of extra storage capacity without paying out more money and enables different sort of work to be kept on separate computers. They are of course networked which means you can swap files etc etc between them no problem. Again, it comes down to what you want to do: decide that, get appropriate spec and build away!

Once you've decided on an operating system (if you think you may need speech recognition, Windows is the only sensible option) you can decide on RAM. I've just installed Windows 7 (64 bit) with 8 GB of RAM-almost certainly overkill for most things but very useful for video editing and speech recognition. Don't get led astray on the arguments between 32 and 64 bit Windows-the main thing to know is that with the old 32-bit system the practical amount of RAM that you can use is about 3 3/4 GB whereas with the 64-bit version the sky is virtually the limit. Nearly all my old legacy software runs fine on Windows 7 64-bit and the odd bits that don't are still on my old Pentium XP (another reason for keeping it). E.g. meta stock nine and various other bits and pieces bought years ago do not run on the latest Windows-obviously if money is no object just buy the latest version).

You might find my post at http://www.trade2win.com/boards/hardware/120908-trading-computer-setup-advice.html of interest.

My overall experience: for easy life go and purchase a PC off-the-shelf. If you want a bit of fun and the ability to tailor an exact specification, and the knowledge that you'll probably be able to fix anything that goes wrong-go for the DIY. There's loads of helpful websites and forums to sort out any problems and explain how to go about it. Many people don't realise that PCs are entirely modular and any self-respecting monkey can connect up the pieces to make them work!

 

[Black Swan]

Also, if you are intending to use speech recognition software then you will need a fast processor with a good amount level II cache and a decent amount of RAM.

Get in there, "take that trade now bitch.." like it..

 

[0007]

Get in there, "take that trade now bitch.." like it..

 

[gamma]

I am no computer expert but would like to bring a point to your attention.
One thing that I have noticed and lived with, is custom built computers get very noisy after a while.
even though the builder assured me that the best quality parts were used.
Bear this in mind and do as much research into this issue as possible.

 

[fihunts]

The best thing about building your own pc from scratch is that you won't be bound to proprietary parts or integrated components such that Dell, HP, Gateway and others have a tendency to do.

I have also found that when I have built my own pc the life of it typically outlasts anything store bought. Mainly because, I have chosen what goes inside it rather then some mass produced hunk of junk.

Custom built pc's, imo, are the best way to go.

 

[0007]

I am no computer expert but would like to bring a point to your attention.
One thing that I have noticed and lived with, is custom built computers get very noisy after a while.
even though the builder assured me that the best quality parts were used.
Bear this in mind and do as much research into this issue as possible.

A very good point. It can be the cooling fans that cause the problem and it's even been known for multiple fans to have been installed incorrectly IE suck/blow against each other! There are usually up to 4 sources of fan noise: Case extractor fan, powersupply fan, CPU fan and graphics card fan. The situation gets worse if you overclock or make full load demands on the CPU since more heat is generated and the fans have to spin faster. That's one reason why I tend to get a powerful CPU and underload it. Bit like cruising your Roller at only 70 miles an hour.

Decent quality power supplies ought to have quiet fans yet a very cheap one I bought recently is almost silent. in the past I specifically used an ANTEC brand case for my previous PC because it was sold on the basis of being extremely quiet -- this turned out to be so, even the case cooling fan was almost silent despite not really being necessary due to the good design of the case. The Antec case I used even has rubber mounting points for the hard drive so that there is no case vibration. And yet price is not always a guide to quality -- my latest construction is housed within an old "Patriot" branded case from PC World (donated by a more fashion-conscious member of my family who no longer wanted to be associated with such a downmarket product) and it turns out to be a well constructed, solid and quiet case.

I've always used fan-less graphics cards which if you're looking for a low spec is entirely practicable. However the more powerful ones have fans which can be noisy and can also be the first part to fail. CPU fans that I've used (i.e. the ones that come with the Intel CPU) have always been very quiet -- certainly within the case since their RPM is regulated according to load on the CPU (or perhaps my hearing is going duff these days). It is also possible to get fanless coolers but it's all extra money and usually unnecessary for normal purposes-- but they are very fashionable!

The other source of noise can be hard drives -- some do lots of clicking and whirring (which can also of course be a sign of impending failure -- but I've had one of these that's been doing it for years!). Another thing that occurs after a while is that the inside of the case and possibly the air vents get clogged up with dust and fluff- I Hoover mine out every so often-if the airflow is restricted then all the fans have to work that much harder. This point can be very relevant if you hide your PC away under a table or in some scruffy corner.

As Gama says, you need to do your research and there are plenty of forums for these sorts of opinion. I think the noise aspect is very often ignored and not something you immediately think of when buying a PC in a noisy show room. But to me it's very important and with not too much effort I've got two PCs running which are very quiet indeed. In this trading game you need all the brainpower available and you shouldn't degrade it with unwanted noise! (You can then also listen to your calming/soothing music).

 

[forker]

I don't think such highly custom pc'c are necessary. All that is needed is the right video card. Charting might seem resource intensive but when compared to games that operate in tens of frames per second, charting is child's play for medium range video cards.

 

[Doomberg]

Im using a mac but think i may be better with something faster, i do have some issues

 

[megamuel]

Hi guys,

I've been out all day so only just caught up with the thread but some great replies and there. I can't respond to them all but I have read and taken everything on board. I like new_trader's idea of selecting a graphics card first and building the PC around that. In fact, I bought 'pcupgrade' and 'custom pc' magazines today and they both have graphics card reviews so some food for thought there. A few people have said that I won't need a super duper amazing graphics card but I guess thats like saying "You don't need a BMW, a Skoda will do!"....Well, not quite but you know what I mean!

Blackswan, Yeah I didn't mean that they were ripping anyone off just that in general, off the shelf computers (from anywhere) seem a little more expensive than what one could build themselves. I like your idea of giving a review at the end. I may even document the build here in case anyone wants info on how to build there own.

0007 thanks for your thorough replies! Lots to take on board there! Some great advice, what do you make of your new i5 then? Good link as well I wonder how much that guys system is costing. I might contact him. Also, I do have an old PC that my grandad built for me a while ago. It died in the end and I'm not sure how it died so I'm not sure what I will be able to salvage. Probably the CD drive, hard drive maybe and possibly the RAM although that is probably outdated stuff now I will have to check it out.

Gamma, I'm with you on the noise thing. My current PC seems to have some dust or something in one of the fans and its really annoying. I forgot to add that initially but a quiet running pc is definitely one objective. I'm more inclined to buy a better processor and under run it as per 0007 suggestion than over clock it. Don't like the idea of doing that.

Anyway, cheers for now guys. Will post some updates when I start picking some parts!

Sam.

 

[Black Swan]

I don't think such highly custom pc'c are necessary. All that is needed is the right video card. Charting might seem resource intensive but when compared to games that operate in tens of frames per second, charting is child's play for medium range video cards.

Gutted, I thought buying an alienware from dell would make my charts like having level 2/dom whilst I'm out and about...thought I'd be getting the real prices..the ones us retail chumps aren't allowed to see..

 

[Black Swan]

Hi guys,

Blackswan, Yeah I didn't mean that they were ripping anyone off just that in general, off the shelf computers (from anywhere) seem a little more expensive than what one could build themselves. I like your idea of giving a review at the end. I may even document the build here in case anyone wants info on how to build there own.

Sam.

really surprised that someone like 0007 or perhaps yourself don't make a business out of it, I'm sure you get loads of business..so long as you could make a few hundred quid and be cheaper than the competition..I just dont know how the numbers crunch though.

Could you knock out one really good pc a week? Be a nice supplement whilst waiting for set ups..I reckon the EUR/USD might finally swing short today..I've been waiting since the 28th..:whistling

 

[new_trader]

Gutted, I thought buying an alienware from dell would make my charts like having level 2/dom whilst I'm out and about...thought I'd be getting the real prices..the ones us retail chumps aren't allowed to see..

That gives me a brilliant Idea! :idea:

I will build and sell PC's that take the 'mystery' out of DOM/Level 2! They will erect statues in my honour I tell you!!!:smart:

 

[Black Swan]

That gives me a brilliant Idea! :idea:

I will build and sell PC's that take the 'mystery' out of DOM/Level 2! They will erect statues in my honour I tell you!!!:smart:

and if you link up with 0007's voice recognition software you've cracked it. This will be your trading floor, you can just give subtle coded instructions; "set fazars to stun, warp speed 2 required Scotty, any fit alien birds (without scales but with long tongues) on that new planet Mr Spock?"

 

[forker]

I can see where your youth was spent

 

[0007]

really surprised that someone like 0007 or perhaps yourself don't make a business out of it, I'm sure you get loads of business..so long as you could make a few hundred quid and be cheaper than the competition..I just dont know how the numbers crunch though.

Could you knock out one really good pc a week? Be a nice supplement whilst waiting for set ups..I reckon the EUR/USD might finally swing short today..I've been waiting since the 28th..:whistling

I suspect that a lot of small-timePC builders are not terribly profitable when you look at their scruffy workshops and less than desirable cars in the yard! I think that people like Michael Dell who got into the business early on may have done okay. I'm sure there is a market for buildingPCs to spec but you have to remember that you're dealing with people -- and that's the problem. They always change their mind, very rarely completely satisfied and always want the product for less!

As for me, I prefer Mistress Market: she always gives me a straight answer, I know where I stand: divorce, separation and remarriage are just everyday occurrences!

I get as much fun out of fiddling with my PCs as I do playing the market -- just a nice hobby and with the market the extra pocket money is a bonus.I think you can only really enjoy this sort of thing if you don't need the money -- but of course, the reason why most of us start to do it in the first place is because we need (or should I say want) the money.

 

[Black Swan]

I can see where your youth was spent

Yep you got me, alien birds without scales but long tongues..Liverpool has never changed...