Considering career change, need advice.

[Dr Blues]

Hi there,

I am currently a junior doctor but feel disillusioned with my job somewhat and have looked into financial careers. One popular choice for ex-medics is to go into equity research, often researching healthcare stock.

My questions are,

1) Has anyone been in a similar position to me, if so, what did you do and how did it work out?
2) Is it possible for a doctor to join a hedgefund or private equity firm or are my qualifications completely useless?


Many thanks,
Peter

 

[Zelo]

Can't you just start checking out if this financial career is really something for you?

How many years of trading experience do you have ?

If you want to join a hedge fund or whatsoever you must be able to show some proven skills.

 

[timsk]

Hi Peter,
Welcome to T2W,

1) Has anyone been in a similar position to me, if so, what did you do and how did it work out?

Although it's possible that anyone who's made such a transition might surface here, it's not very likely as T2W is primarily a site aimed at retail traders.

2) Is it possible for a doctor to join a hedgefund or private equity firm or are my qualifications completely useless?

My guess is that it would only happen in very specific cases - such as the one you mention - where the fund focuses on an area that the ex-medic has specialist knowledge in.

If you want a gentle introduction to the topic of switching from an unrelated profession into the financial markets - check out this FAQ: How Do I get a Job Trading?

Let us know what you decide to do and how you get on.
Good luck!
Tim.

 

[WklyOptions]

Peter - PLEASE - take your time and do some deep thinking 1st!

Hi Peter,
Welcome to T2W,


Although it's possible that anyone who's made such a transition might surface here, it's not very likely as T2W is primarily a site aimed at retail traders.


My guess is that it would only happen in very specific cases - such as the one you mention - where the fund focuses on an area that the ex-medic has specialist knowledge in.

If you want a gentle introduction to the topic of switching from an unrelated profession into the financial markets - check out this FAQ: How Do I get a Job Trading?

Let us know what you decide to do and how you get on.
Good luck!
Tim.

Hi, Peter,

I agree with TIMSK comments above.

In having worked at a trading environment (Single Family Office trading desk) as a Risk Mgr, I have observed several important points that may be important for you to seriously consider before leaving medicine to jump into the analysis/trading career pathway:

1. Most individuals try/switch to trading for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately all of the marketing/advertising images of "easy money", untold riches, etc., only helps to fuel the individual's mis-guided visions: earn tons of $$$ profits and then SPEND it on lifestyle items (being a consumer). I have found that the most successful individual traders have a very different reason(s) for trading: they want to make tons of $$$ because they MUST - they are DRIVEN and FOCUSED on the GAME of trading - the winner(s) are SCORED by the Net $$$ profits gained.

Professional successful traders are NOT focused on trying to make some $1k or $5k or $10k per month income - to "make a living". They are focused on a MUCH LARGER playing field/game: they want to realize annual returns > (+50%) - and they want to be paid HUGE - and they want the recognition and self-satisfaction that their performance (and bonuses) are linked to their SKILLS to beat out 99% of all traders' performance! Understand, Peter?

Professional traders look to outperform their competition - not to make a living trading. They are passionate about winning and being creative in their trading strategies to trounce their competition. They have very HIGH Targets set by their Risk Mgrs and CEOs. For example, a Junior Trader with $1M may be required to generate at least a Net Closed Profit of (+$500K) at year's end. Often pro traders trade with at least 5x - 10x - 20x leverage to generate their required Monthly and/or Quarterly Closed Profit Targets.

These traders take big chances - and take in big wins and losses. They have a certain mindset, focus, and conditioning/training in themselves - to deal with the ongoing relentless stress and anxiety that comes with performance-based payouts dealing in volatile, uncertain outcomes (and also uncertain random distributions of wins and losses).

We have often observed that professionals in the engineering, accounting, medical, and legal arenas = make poor professional hedge fund traders! Why? Because in these careers, there is a MASSIVE PREMIUM and REQUIREMENT to BE RIGHT. There are HUGE adverse consequences of BEING WRONG! You have been trained and CONDITIONED to BE RIGHT - to manipulate your environment, persons, resources, etc., to BE RIGHT.

Note - I am NOT saying that this manipulation is bad or "evil". It is just a matter of procedures and strategies/executions during your training in med school, residency, fellowship, etc. You MUST BE RIGHT - or else your patient(s) will suffer. :whistling

Trading is entirely the opposite - we do NOT trade to BE RIGHT. We trade because there is a HUGE positive statistically robust (p<0.01) trading EDGE that will generate Closed Profits over a series of closed trades (for example after 30 Closed Trades of that specific Edge).

Can you see and understand the difference, Peter?

2. Another key point to professional trading is that these high performance individuals have 100% belief and commitment that in the long run, their positive statistical Edges will guarantee a profit. They then use leverage to generate excess returns - and most will hope to systematize their procedures to the point where they can Be-come their own hedge fund mgrs.

When a trader switches from trading (trade time for $$$) - into the pathway to become either a fund mgr or asset mgr business, now he/she is switching into wealth building and wealth income systems (the asset mgmt. business for example) where he/she can begin to generate more passive income (asset mgmt. fees, performance bonuses, etc).

This switch from trader to business owner/mgr requires a new set of skills and mindsets - from worker/trader to owner/entrepreneur. Again, are you beginning to see the many differences and EXTREMES in mindset, focus, beliefs, between BEing a physician vs BEing a performance-based trader vs BEing a builder of wealth/entrepreneur?

I hope you really do take your time to explore what it is precisely you are looking for. The fact that you are wanting to switch from medicine into something else begs several important questions only you can truly reflect and answer for yourself: :smart:

(a) Really, if you had only 1-2 things you can do in life, what would be your Life's Mission?
(b) What do you enjoy most? Reading? Writing? Sports? Teaching? Speaking? Research? Etc?
(c) If giving highly valued health services to the many as a physician is NOT internally enough/truly exciting/satisfying --> what precise/detailed service(s) would be most exciting and satisfying that you can give to the "many"?
(d) Besides sleeping and working as a physician - what is the top 1-2 activities that take up a MAJORITY of your time every day/wk/mo?
(e) Besides paying for fixed expenses like car, home, utilities, insurance payments, food, etc., what is the top 1-2 discretionary activities/items that consume most of your discretionary $$$? :-0

Again - PLEASE - I never recommend that individuals go into trading for the reasons of looking for a profit or b/c they are bored in their careers/life. Winning trading needs to come from inside the professional trader - and it takes a LOT of internal drive, focus, confidence, commitment, Beliefs - to succeed long-term! :!:

3. One last point - what TIMSK mentioned about possibly doing analytical research work for a boutique trading or research firm. This is the most likely scenario for physicians to venture into. However, you must be able to ADD VALUE into the research and analytical evaluations for the boutique research or trading firm. Do you have a skill-set in clinical research trials (phase 1-3)? Do you have detailed insights to evaluate basic science research methods and pre-clinical trials data? Do you have experience and skill-set in business/financial metrics (strategy/SWOT analysis, marketing analysis, financial valuations/earnings impact analyses, etc)?

I can tell you that boutique research/trading firms will need you to be able to prove your value-added skill-set into the trading research process. How can your precision-based, highly-detailed analytics into basic science research and/or clinical trial designs/results help you find a significant "variant edge" or "variant outcome" that may not yet have been perceived by other research/trading firms?

In summary - I strongly encourage you to take your time (days, wks) to seriously reflect and consider what you truly want/looking for. This process is lengthy and requires effort - and it is much more intensive than the time/space I have here in this post (apologies - already very long!). :whistling

Please feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more ideas/approaches on these issues. Your desire for change needs your serious attention and deep thinking!

So do your "homework" now to avoid serious mis-steps and errors in the future! You must first create your "image" of yourself that you can truly be passionate and excited about the most! :smart: Then go from there!

Good luck! :clap:

Best regards,

WklyOptions

 

[Dr Blues]

Hi Peter,
Welcome to T2W,


Although it's possible that anyone who's made such a transition might surface here, it's not very likely as T2W is primarily a site aimed at retail traders.


My guess is that it would only happen in very specific cases - such as the one you mention - where the fund focuses on an area that the ex-medic has specialist knowledge in.

If you want a gentle introduction to the topic of switching from an unrelated profession into the financial markets - check out this FAQ: How Do I get a Job Trading?

Let us know what you decide to do and how you get on.
Good luck!
Tim.

Thanks for taking the time to reply and provide me with that link, I haven't the time yet to check out everything listed (as I'm actually at work !). It makes some very good observations of my situation. I've been thinking about it for the past 2-3 months and over the past 2 weeks have been researching it every evening. If I make the switch it will be over a year from now, in which time I hope to truly know whether the switch is right for me.

 

[Dr Blues]

Hi, Peter,

I agree with TIMSK comments above.

In having worked at a trading environment (Single Family Office trading desk) as a Risk Mgr, I have observed several important points that may be important for you to seriously consider before leaving medicine to jump into the analysis/trading career pathway:

1. Most individuals try/switch to trading for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately all of the marketing/advertising images of "easy money", untold riches, etc., only helps to fuel the individual's mis-guided visions: earn tons of $$$ profits and then SPEND it on lifestyle items (being a consumer). I have found that the most successful individual traders have a very different reason(s) for trading: they want to make tons of $$$ because they MUST - they are DRIVEN and FOCUSED on the GAME of trading - the winner(s) are SCORED by the Net $$$ profits gained.

Professional successful traders are NOT focused on trying to make some $1k or $5k or $10k per month income - to "make a living". They are focused on a MUCH LARGER playing field/game: they want to realize annual returns > (+50%) - and they want to be paid HUGE - and they want the recognition and self-satisfaction that their performance (and bonuses) are linked to their SKILLS to beat out 99% of all traders' performance! Understand, Peter?

Professional traders look to outperform their competition - not to make a living trading. They are passionate about winning and being creative in their trading strategies to trounce their competition. They have very HIGH Targets set by their Risk Mgrs and CEOs. For example, a Junior Trader with $1M may be required to generate at least a Net Closed Profit of (+$500K) at year's end. Often pro traders trade with at least 5x - 10x - 20x leverage to generate their required Monthly and/or Quarterly Closed Profit Targets.

These traders take big chances - and take in big wins and losses. They have a certain mindset, focus, and conditioning/training in themselves - to deal with the ongoing relentless stress and anxiety that comes with performance-based payouts dealing in volatile, uncertain outcomes (and also uncertain random distributions of wins and losses).

We have often observed that professionals in the engineering, accounting, medical, and legal arenas = make poor professional hedge fund traders! Why? Because in these careers, there is a MASSIVE PREMIUM and REQUIREMENT to BE RIGHT. There are HUGE adverse consequences of BEING WRONG! You have been trained and CONDITIONED to BE RIGHT - to manipulate your environment, persons, resources, etc., to BE RIGHT.

Note - I am NOT saying that this manipulation is bad or "evil". It is just a matter of procedures and strategies/executions during your training in med school, residency, fellowship, etc. You MUST BE RIGHT - or else your patient(s) will suffer. :whistling

Trading is entirely the opposite - we do NOT trade to BE RIGHT. We trade because there is a HUGE positive statistically robust (p<0.01) trading EDGE that will generate Closed Profits over a series of closed trades (for example after 30 Closed Trades of that specific Edge).

Can you see and understand the difference, Peter?

2. Another key point to professional trading is that these high performance individuals have 100% belief and commitment that in the long run, their positive statistical Edges will guarantee a profit. They then use leverage to generate excess returns - and most will hope to systematize their procedures to the point where they can Be-come their own hedge fund mgrs.

When a trader switches from trading (trade time for $$$) - into the pathway to become either a fund mgr or asset mgr business, now he/she is switching into wealth building and wealth income systems (the asset mgmt. business for example) where he/she can begin to generate more passive income (asset mgmt. fees, performance bonuses, etc).

This switch from trader to business owner/mgr requires a new set of skills and mindsets - from worker/trader to owner/entrepreneur. Again, are you beginning to see the many differences and EXTREMES in mindset, focus, beliefs, between BEing a physician vs BEing a performance-based trader vs BEing a builder of wealth/entrepreneur?

I hope you really do take your time to explore what it is precisely you are looking for. The fact that you are wanting to switch from medicine into something else begs several important questions only you can truly reflect and answer for yourself: :smart:

(a) Really, if you had only 1-2 things you can do in life, what would be your Life's Mission?
(b) What do you enjoy most? Reading? Writing? Sports? Teaching? Speaking? Research? Etc?
(c) If giving highly valued health services to the many as a physician is NOT internally enough/truly exciting/satisfying --> what precise/detailed service(s) would be most exciting and satisfying that you can give to the "many"?
(d) Besides sleeping and working as a physician - what is the top 1-2 activities that take up a MAJORITY of your time every day/wk/mo?
(e) Besides paying for fixed expenses like car, home, utilities, insurance payments, food, etc., what is the top 1-2 discretionary activities/items that consume most of your discretionary $$$? :-0

Again - PLEASE - I never recommend that individuals go into trading for the reasons of looking for a profit or b/c they are bored in their careers/life. Winning trading needs to come from inside the professional trader - and it takes a LOT of internal drive, focus, confidence, commitment, Beliefs - to succeed long-term! :!:

3. One last point - what TIMSK mentioned about possibly doing analytical research work for a boutique trading or research firm. This is the most likely scenario for physicians to venture into. However, you must be able to ADD VALUE into the research and analytical evaluations for the boutique research or trading firm. Do you have a skill-set in clinical research trials (phase 1-3)? Do you have detailed insights to evaluate basic science research methods and pre-clinical trials data? Do you have experience and skill-set in business/financial metrics (strategy/SWOT analysis, marketing analysis, financial valuations/earnings impact analyses, etc)?

I can tell you that boutique research/trading firms will need you to be able to prove your value-added skill-set into the trading research process. How can your precision-based, highly-detailed analytics into basic science research and/or clinical trial designs/results help you find a significant "variant edge" or "variant outcome" that may not yet have been perceived by other research/trading firms?

In summary - I strongly encourage you to take your time (days, wks) to seriously reflect and consider what you truly want/looking for. This process is lengthy and requires effort - and it is much more intensive than the time/space I have here in this post (apologies - already very long!). :whistling

Please feel free to PM me if you want to discuss more ideas/approaches on these issues. Your desire for change needs your serious attention and deep thinking!

So do your "homework" now to avoid serious mis-steps and errors in the future! You must first create your "image" of yourself that you can truly be passionate and excited about the most! :smart: Then go from there!

Good luck! :clap:

Best regards,

WklyOptions

Thank you for all your advice, I take it very seriously. I admit you have made me think even harder about my commitment. I do have that drive to be a great investor and trader but it can be very demoralising knowing you can't commit yourself completely to it when you spend a lot of your time in another profession. I have spoken since to a few people who have made the switch both ways which has given me some insight. I will continue to think HARD about it. Seriously thanks for taking the time to make such a reasoned and detailed answer as it has made me consider things I perhaps was trying to ignore.

I'll certainly take you up on that offer of PM-ing you if I have further questions.

Part of me feels that trading is one of those things you can't do half arsed and so sometimes I'm put off commiting my time to it when I think it might be a better investment of my time to say go on a surgical training skills course. Better to be amazing at one or the other than okay at both. I do feel it's one or the other at times.

So yeah....I got a lot to think about.

Cheers
Pete

 

[counter_violent]

Hi there,

I am currently a junior doctor but feel disillusioned with my job somewhat and have looked into financial careers. One popular choice for ex-medics is to go into equity research, often researching healthcare stock.

My questions are,

1) Has anyone been in a similar position to me, if so, what did you do and how did it work out?
2) Is it possible for a doctor to join a hedgefund or private equity firm or are my qualifications completely useless?


Many thanks,
Peter

Would you agree with the statement that is widely bandied about, that it takes approximately 10,000 hrs to become an expert in your chosen field ? Probably more time than this for a doctor !

So my question is, why give up the day job and the significant investment of your time, not to mention education, to take a punt on a career change that carries a high risk of failure?

You can of course run your own retail trading activity alongside the career. Lots of us have day jobs and we fit trading activity around work commitments.

 

[Dr Blues]

Would you agree with the statement that is widely bandied about, that it takes approximately 10,000 hrs to become an expert in your chosen field ? Probably more time than this for a doctor !

So my question is, why give up the day job and the significant investment of your time, not to mention education, to take a punt on a career change that carries a high risk of failure?

You can of course run your own retail trading activity alongside the career. Lots of us have day jobs and we fit trading activity around work commitments.

I guess my concern is that i get to 40 and realise I've just been okay at my job and never took a risk or chased something that I was really passionate and good at. Obviously that comes with huge risk as you pointed out. And clearly many of you trade and work other jobs which is encouraging as this may be a suitable compromise. Bare in mind I work in the uk in the national health service. Doctors in the US get much more money. In England you work very hard for not that great pay. And if you don't feel satisfaction with the work you do then I seriously begin to question my commitment.