CMC Markets concern from a Noob

H

hybrid

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Hi there,

I have been studying trading for a few weeks (advice, books, mentors, utube etc).

I have been looking at using the CMC platform (i have little capital).

But....i found out:

They 'can' gain from clients losing.

They have no volume technical indicator.

Their SMA's are misleading (i think). I seek to know if this is normal behavoir with their SMAs (and other indicators); They state Length and i enter 50, thinking i am getting a 50 day SMA - then i found out this is 50 periods (or plots) on whatever i am viewing. e.g. on a 15 minute or 1 hour chart this info is useless.

Surely this makes them pretty misleading? and gears their platform towards client loss?

Am i being paranoid?

Is there a better spread bet platform/company i can use with a decent platform where i can:

Use CCI
Use RSI
Use MACD
Use SMA (50day average on ANY chart is a must)
Use Volume indicators
Have tight spreads.
Where they only gain from spreads and dont gain from the client losing.
and where i can put calibrated days into indicators > ontop of any time chart i am viewing.


I really hope this makes sense.

peace good people.

N00bian Mark
 
Last edited:
hey dude

I dont use them so really cannot comment ...........but I will say that I am amazed if their core indicators offered dont do what they say on the tin ....hmmmm

just phone and ask them ............all these brokers should offer responsible and patient responses to newbies.........they need you !

sorry I really avoid personally recommending brokers........

dont rush into much for a long time yet dude ........take your time ......i cranked out some generic newbie advice for what its worth a while back if any use ..........

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/for...-basic-ideas-strategies-1446.html#post2163262

good luck
N
 
The SMA is plotted on whatever timeframe you are looking at. So if you want the 50 day SMA, look on a daily chart and you have it. If you need, record the level from the daily chart and revert back to whatever other timeframe you want. If you don't like that, then you can approximate the 50 day SMA - for example if you look at 1 hour charts, then set a 1200 SMA.

I don't use CMC, but can't you have more than one chart open, i.e. a daily and whatever other timeframe you use?
 
Hi Mark,
Welcome to T2W.

hybrid said:
They 'can' gain from clients losing.
Click to expand...
Yes they can - and do - but, depending upon your point of view and the way you trade - this isn't necessarily a problem. SB firms make their own prices, so they take the other side of your trade. Some claim to hedge their net position in the underlying market and only profit from the spreads. Others may accept that risk and profit from it. There are loads of threads discussing the ins and outs of this - so I won't go into it here. Research it so you understand the issues and then make your own mind up.

hybrid said:
They have no volume technical indicator.
Click to expand...
I don't have an account with them - so I can't check. However, I'm extremely surprised if this is correct. They may not show volume for Forex as there isn't a way for them to show it as forex isn't an exchange traded product. If you select equities or indices, I'd expect you to be able to add volume to your charts.

hybrid said:
Their SMA's are misleading (i think). I seek to know if this is normal behavoir with their SMAs (and other indicators); They state Length and i enter 50, thinking i am getting a 50 day SMA - then i found out this is 50 periods (or plots) on whatever i am viewing. e.g. on a 15 minute or 1 hour chart this info is useless.

Surely this makes them pretty misleading? and gears their platform towards client loss?

Am i being paranoid?
Click to expand...
Not paranoid, just not understanding how these things work. What you describe is absolutely standard across all TA software. All indicators are based on the time period displayed. Most SB providers will enable you to display multiple charts, so simply open up another one with the daily timeframe. Problem solved!

hybrid said:
Is there a better spread bet platform/company i can use with a decent platform where i can:

Use CCI
Use RSI
Use MACD
Use SMA (50day average on ANY chart is a must)
Use Volume indicators
Have tight spreads.
Where they only gain from spreads and dont gain from the client losing.
and where i can put calibrated days into indicators > ontop of any time chart i am viewing.
Click to expand...
If you don't want your broker taking the other side of your trades, you'll need to move to a direct market access (DMA) broker. They have their own pros and cons. Any profits you make are not tax free and you're likely to have to fund your account with more capital than you would with a SB firm. Then there are commissions and other possible charges for software etc.

I'm not saying one route is better than the other - but you need to assess all the pros and cons of each to work out which one is best for you. All SB firms will offer the indicators you require, but their spreads will vary slightly from one product to the next. This FAQ may help you to work out what to look for and which broker will suit you best: Can You Recommend a Data Feed, Charting Software & Broker?
Tim.
 
hybrid said:
Hi there,

I have been studying trading for a few weeks (advice, books, mentors, utube etc).

I have been looking at using the CMC platform (i have little capital).

But....i found out:

They 'can' gain from clients losing.

They have no volume technical indicator.

Their SMA's are misleading (i think). I seek to know if this is normal behavoir with their SMAs (and other indicators); They state Length and i enter 50, thinking i am getting a 50 day SMA - then i found out this is 50 periods (or plots) on whatever i am viewing. e.g. on a 15 minute or 1 hour chart this info is useless.

Surely this makes them pretty misleading? and gears their platform towards client loss?

Am i being paranoid?

Is there a better spread bet platform/company i can use with a decent platform where i can:

Use CCI
Use RSI
Use MACD
Use SMA (50day average on ANY chart is a must)
Use Volume indicators
Have tight spreads.
Where they only gain from spreads and dont gain from the client losing.
and where i can put calibrated days into indicators > ontop of any time chart i am viewing.


I really hope this makes sense.

peace good people.

N00bian Mark
Click to expand...

Not the first time i've heard this about CMC. I don't use them myself.

I tend to use CFDs with DMA. You pay a commission, but you know that:

1 - your underlying is being purchased in the market, you're not working against a 'bookie' and
2 - you're getting market spreads

I hear that Meta Trader is very good for charts, but i've never used it. I use Accendo Markets at the mo, charting is OK ('CFD Trader' platform) and I get DMA and help from staff there. IG similar platform, FXCM quite good for currency (STP, although not quite ECN).

Spread betting is, by its nature, betting. Therefore, they'll always win when you lose as they're running a book. So, as far as I'm aware, there are none who make money just from spread, and there probably never will be!

Hope it helps, good luck with the trading.
 
Hate2Lose said:
Spread betting is, by its nature, betting.
Click to expand...

Trading is, by nature, betting.

Regardless if is spread betting, futures or options or CFD's.

Your placing risk money on a direction, therefore your betting with risk that it will move in that direction, if your wrong, you lose the risk money.

You can tart up CFD or DMA, but the same principles apply!

Its all betting.
 
hybrid said:
Hi there,

I have been studying trading for a few weeks (advice, books, mentors, utube etc).

I have been looking at using the CMC platform (i have little capital).

But....i found out:

They 'can' gain from clients losing.

They have no volume technical indicator.

Their SMA's are misleading (i think). I seek to know if this is normal behavoir with their SMAs (and other indicators); They state Length and i enter 50, thinking i am getting a 50 day SMA - then i found out this is 50 periods (or plots) on whatever i am viewing. e.g. on a 15 minute or 1 hour chart this info is useless.

Surely this makes them pretty misleading? and gears their platform towards client loss?

Am i being paranoid?

Is there a better spread bet platform/company i can use with a decent platform where i can:

Use CCI
Use RSI
Use MACD
Use SMA (50day average on ANY chart is a must)
Use Volume indicators
Have tight spreads.
Where they only gain from spreads and dont gain from the client losing.
and where i can put calibrated days into indicators > ontop of any time chart i am viewing.


I really hope this makes sense.

peace good people.

N00bian Mark
Click to expand...

You have not mentioned which markets you trade sir.

If you are trading markets such as the DAX and FSTE and DOW for example, then YES the moving averages will be incorrect and so will the indicators becasue the SB firms price 24hr cash markets, therefore these indicators are performing their math on the 24hr data on daily charts and intraday charts which is inaccurate.

You will either need to cut out the 24hr data or use a chart package that only provides the official market hours for the correct readings.

For example -

On the FTSE 24hr cash market chart provided by an SB firm at the open, 08:00, and on a 15 minute chart, the 50sma will show a different reading to that of a 15 minute FTSE chart that only has the data from 08:00 to 16:30. The SB chart will be calculating the last 50 bars including the overnight pricing which will give an inaccurate reading.

Also if using 24hr data you will have inaccurate readings on the daily and weekly charts. Occasionally the FTSE 24hr cash market rallies out of hours with the DOW and S&P and print daily highs lows that are not in the official hours, your SB charting will be using these inaccurate prices to calculate the MA's and indicators.
 
Oh and one last thing...

I would not trust CMC or ETX as far as I could throw them.

I traded with both in the past and YES they were using dirty tactics with micro slippage.

I was trading FTSE one day in a low volume non volatile session, barely any movement, eventually moved 10pts in my direction, in which I removed half profit and moved stop to entry. Price then spent the next 3 hours retracing the 10pts and hitting my stop loss....bare in mind...NO volatility and 3 hours just to move 10pts!

ETX filled my stop loss with a slippage of 0.5pt loss even no my stop was correctly at my entry price and the volatility was ultra low.

I call this micro slippage and what **** firms like ETX do to steal from you hoping you won't notice the micro size slippage on statements, or won't waste time challenging them.

The only 2 SB firms I recommend and have not had any trouble with are IG and City Index.
 
Thanks for the great information DAX.

Since the original post, i have learnt much more, and am working with Forex with broker GKFX.

Why do SBet firms have 24 hour markets on indexes? How do they price these?
 
We looked at the CMC platform and you have experienced a software glitch that has yet to be rectified, the software change earlier inn the year was the cause and the newer version (3 months old?) has merely exacerbated the problem, it has to date remained an unaddressed issue.

All platforms gain from your loss, as mentioned another thread the across platform info-exchange means that whereas previously most bets were hived off into the market they can now hold the bet, suppress the price (or falsely raise it) and take you out of the picture.

At present (today) the 'greed' factor is high and on the DJI the numbers are approaching 20 points of sniffer-dog movement and 15 on the FTSE, so be very careful when and how you place anything until this period of false-markets is over.
 
DAX30DayTrader said:
Trading is, by nature, betting.

Regardless if is spread betting, futures or options or CFD's.

Your placing risk money on a direction, therefore your betting with risk that it will move in that direction, if your wrong, you lose the risk money.

You can tart up CFD or DMA, but the same principles apply!

Its all betting.
Click to expand...

You’re (arguably) right, but it’s a question of semantics. Is there a difference between calculated risk and betting? Or is betting a calculated risk? Is starting a business, for example, betting?

It’s worth noting that SB is synthetic, CFDs/shares etc (depending) are a ‘real’ market.
 
hybrid said:
Why do SBet firms have 24 hour markets on indexes? How do they price these?
Click to expand...

Quite simply to allow you to trade throughout the week. Pricing outside of shares trading hours (8am-4.30pm for UK) is based on futures contracts which take into account futures traders’ views on what’s going on around the world at that time and what will affecting that market. SB provides roll the two together to allow you to trade continuously. When UK shares close, FTSE 100 index trading continues with pricing is based on news that may affect UK stocks as well as what’s happening in US markets. When US closed US indices still moving as Asia still open. What indices shows out of hours (up or down) is also an indication of where the shares index itself will open the following session. There’s always a major shares market open, be it Europe, US or Asia, and the global impact of news puts you in a position to trade any indices via futures 24/5 if you wish. Good luck.
 
Hate2Lose said:
It’s worth noting that SB is synthetic, CFDs/shares etc (depending) are a ‘real’ market.
Click to expand...

That is not quite right...

It all depends on the index, the DJI and the FTSE are largely a false market that is almost entirely a money making system for the algorithmic trading co's now and whether you SB/CFD or anything else you are simply cannon-fodder.

Even if you gallantly put off the day of your fall for a period of time. :)
 
Mycroft Algoman said:
That is not quite right...

It all depends on the index, the DJI and the FTSE are largely a false market that is almost entirely a money making system for the algorithmic trading co's now and whether you SB/CFD or anything else you are simply cannon-fodder.

Even if you gallantly put off the day of your fall for a period of time. :)
Click to expand...

Well, I think that’s a separate argument entirely! An interesting one, nonetheless.

Find the right strategy, and you can beat the market. I’ve seen it.
 
Hate2Lose said:
You’re (arguably) right, but it’s a question of semantics. Is there a difference between calculated risk and betting? Or is betting a calculated risk? Is starting a business, for example, betting?

It’s worth noting that SB is synthetic, CFDs/shares etc (depending) are a ‘real’ market.
Click to expand...

CFDs aren't necessarily any more of a real market than SB.
 
Today CMC ate my stop loss.....but the price action never even reached it!!! was a good 0.3 points away.

then i looked in my MT4 platform with another broker and saw CMC was pricing the FTSE 4 (FOUR) points higher than them.

surely this is highly wrong?

I wouldn't mind if the CMC website said "Sometimes 4 point higher or lower than other brokers."

Where is a good place to complain? i have proof of what happened.
 
indicative prices

use bigger stops, or better still true ECN brokers
 
thanks WR1.

Is ECN the same as STP?

I take it "indicative prices" translates to "stop loss eating robots."
 
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