Choosing an automatic system

JoanFX

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Hi all,

I'm a new trader, so I wish to start with an automatic trading system which does not require me to take too many decisions (I not ready for that yet).

So I have reviewed some options, and I would like to hear some advices from you about them if you have, they are:

Euro Daily Trader - The Forex Club - WELCOME!
Forex Crescendo - Forex Crescendo - Qualitative Quantitative Trading

About the first one I did not found comments yet, but about the second one I found good and bad comments like this Forex Crescendo Forum - Page 21 - Forex Forum | Forex Fx Trader

Any help?
Thanks
 
Hi Joan

any others you want to share with us ?

regards
Neil
 
Hi all,

I'm a new trader, so I wish to start with an automatic trading system which does not require me to take too many decisions (I not ready for that yet).

So I have reviewed some options, and I would like to hear some advices from you about them if you have, they are:

Euro Daily Trader - The Forex Club - WELCOME!
Forex Crescendo - Forex Crescendo - Qualitative Quantitative Trading

About the first one I did not found comments yet, but about the second one I found good and bad comments like this Forex Crescendo Forum - Page 21 - Forex Forum | Forex Fx Trader

Any help?
Thanks

Hi JoanFX,
since you say you are new to trading, I think you ought to know if you don't already, the odds of making money with automated systems are just as low as making money by discretionary trading. So maybe you know that already and you just want to run an automated system on a simulation account to learn some of the basics of trading - that's probably a fine idea - but you didn't say so.

Also bear in mind that people generally will not sell automated systems that make money. Why would they? They'd be better off concentrating on trading the system and making money with it like that. The main reason that people sell automated systems is that they think they would lose money trading the systems themselves.

To give you a balanced opinion, I have heard say that there are people who only trade automated systems and make good money - however you have to know what you're doing and you presumably need a lot of systems to work with.

Good luck!
 
Hi JoanFX,
since you say you are new to trading, I think you ought to know if you don't already, the odds of making money with automated systems are just as low as making money by discretionary trading. So maybe you know that already and you just want to run an automated system on a simulation account to learn some of the basics of trading - that's probably a fine idea - but you didn't say so.

Also bear in mind that people generally will not sell automated systems that make money. Why would they? They'd be better off concentrating on trading the system and making money with it like that. The main reason that people sell automated systems is that they think they would lose money trading the systems themselves.

To give you a balanced opinion, I have heard say that there are people who only trade automated systems and make good money - however you have to know what you're doing and you presumably need a lot of systems to work with.

Good luck!

Hi Adamus, I did not know that, I thought an EA which follows a strict trading plan could be more profitable than a manual trader who does not have so strict entries.

Thanks for the advice.
 
Hi Adamus, I did not know that, I thought an EA which follows a strict trading plan could be more profitable than a manual trader who does not have so strict entries.

Thanks for the advice.

:cheesy: The traders that take your money are those in pro firms who follow no fixed rules. Their only rule is to profit from you by squeezing you out.
 
@erforex - let's see how it does over the next 6 months or so.
 
I dont know much about automated systems but i know one thing, if you can have an automated system that can ensure profitability to a certain degree then how much is that really worth? Returns of 10% pa, 20% pa, 30% pa, 50% pa.............. how much is that worth in some peoples hands? So when the small trader is looking to buy an automated system ensuring a certain profitability just think about the above and how come you are paying such a small amount of money for something that is worth a fortune?

Keeping this logic in mind why would any individual ever try and purchase an automated system? Can understand the big guns putting a lot into this but can never work for the lone trader can it?
 
i always wondered that if i venture to the world of automated trading would i find a solid ground to stand on, but the search is the hard part, out of thousands of EAs which one really works? :(
 
You are all falling into one of the biggest mistakes traders make, thinking that there are a couple of indicators out there that you can put into a trading system that you can follow 100% without breaking the rules or fully automating it and then becoming rich.

IMHO, for what its worth, it is about years of experience that enable you to make the dynamic assessment in a split second as to where the markets are going at any particular moment based on indicators, S/R, news, patterns, correlation to other markets etc etc etc and you only get all that from experience.

So no dont expect to find a few indicators that you follow and trade to make you rich but put a lot of hard work in with the right aptitude and you might get there.

There are no short cuts but with the right hard work focussed in the right areas it can be more than rewarding,
 
I have generally found automated systems a big disappointment

Two main reasons for this

1) The backtests which the vendors use to justify their systems may or may not be flawed, let's assume they aren't ficticious, the problem is that the software writers identify patterns which they make into an EA, eg trade sterling at 7 am every day if indicators 1 and 2 point the same way.....for a given exit strategy........ Then the market behaviour changes and the strategy no longer works and depletes rather than grows your account.

2) The I.T. that is required to make the strategy work as good as the back test is inadequate. Some systems rely on very quick order filling and very quick exits, and the connections and broker delays are not fast enough to suit the strategy. Indeed I have even wondered whether brokers have deliberately counter-attacked some of the scalping strategies by slowing things down because they themselves were losing money against the clients.

I am not naming here systems which I have tested and found disappointing, merely saying these are my experiences with expert advisers going back more than 2 years.

I have decided that manual trading is the best way forward for me. In fact that is a full circle for me because I was originally doing that before being tempted to use automated systems.
 
are there actually any good automated systems?

I don't know of any you can buy, but I trade a few self developed ones that return well. It is extremely difficult to develop a system that never has a monthly drawdown, and it usually requires a ridiculously tight stop to do so. My best systems have small losing months and large winning months, the usual concept of let your winners run employed over an annual time frame. Market changes often happen suddenly (unfortunately - if it truly slowly phased I'd be a billionaire), there is no point in optimising a system week by week and letting it run, you need to optimise over 5 years and aim for an average monthly return. There are ultimately limits to the 'shapes' the market can take, so it isn't entirely random. Big bars in a ranging market are about the worst thing that can happen to a 24 hour auto trader, it is the handling of these moments that are the make or break (i.e. give up on the idea of short term moving averages and beware August). Until you start getting near zero commission and the tightest of spreads, anything else but monthly averages, rather than daily returns are usually terribly flawed. You will also see that with a theoretically unlimited account, stop losses generally worsen your bottom line, but they do reduce point to point drawdown and account size required to trade, so you need to find optimal return vs max drawdown, yet another consideration for your personal circumstance. Take profits are a different animal, generally they would improve your annual return, but require kabillions of permutations to be tested per instrument you trade, it is not child's play. I have two very high end computers crunching numbers nearly every weekend. A take profit of 80 on the EURUSD for example improves my annual return by some 20% rather than letting a reversal stop fill the open position at the new entry.

In the same way that you cannot find sufficient information on the web to properly complete a difficult tax return and set of accounts or carry on your own effective law practice (for example!), you cannot find sufficient information to completely develop a good automatic trader. The web is good for dispelling the need for general knowledge merchants (encyclopaedic style), but remains second rate when it comes to open sharing of very specialist knowledge, as you'd expect where profit is concerned. You have to either gather experience at institutional quant level or invest a lot of time and effort yourself into trial and error. I know of no other way and have had to do one or the other with every money making profession I have ever done.

I can SORT of understand why someone might share a winning system, when I first had mine, I only had 20 grand to trade it with. In two years I would have enough to trade at the level I wanted, but that seemed like a bloody long time to wait back then. However, it went against the grain to actually go ahead and publicise it and to this day I only share general tips on the likes of Big Mikes etc. I would say it is no coincidence that people you help with some of the nuts and bolts usually disappear altogether shortly after - I assume either having found their own system or failed and given in. Former or latter, they don't come back to share their own code!
 
Ea

Guys,

Anybody trading with TFOT V8 or TFOT V9 EAs? Gains and losses?

If so - how often are the trades and are you using default settings or custom settings.

Dr. Jack
 
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