Can it really be part time

[soundmanshane]

Hi all,

I've spent the last 3 years investing in funds which has given me a decent return. I have always been keen to understand the fundamentals and technicals of investing and I have spent the last 2 months reading as much as I can, watching videos, going through books. I just simply don't have the time to be a day trader more of a investor I guess.
My question is can this be a 'part time thing' ?

I've attempted to answer basic questions i feel may be asked

1 Do I want to make money - Yes, but can live without it as my full time job provides enough
2 Am I happy losing money....No but accept this will happen, although I mitigate risk
3 How much time can I put into research....Currrently approx 10 hours per week looking at fundamentals/ looking at charts etc..
4 What are my aims - To understand Technical and Fundamental analysis to the point of having a strategy, sticking to it while learning along the way
5 - how much money are we talking about - £4,000 at present


I fell I've learnt a lot, but still just lacking a total and complete strategy

 

[mpups]

My question is can this be a 'part time thing' ?

its up to you

are you saying you want to move away from the funds and trade the market more directly/actively ?

 

[malaguti]

Hi all,

I've spent the last 3 years investing in funds which has given me a decent return. I have always been keen to understand the fundamentals and technicals of investing and I have spent the last 2 months reading as much as I can, watching videos, going through books. I just simply don't have the time to be a day trader more of a investor I guess.
My question is can this be a 'part time thing' ?

I've attempted to answer basic questions i feel may be asked

1 Do I want to make money - Yes, but can live without it as my full time job provides enough
2 Am I happy losing money....No but accept this will happen, although I mitigate risk
3 How much time can I put into research....Currrently approx 10 hours per week looking at fundamentals/ looking at charts etc..
4 What are my aims - To understand Technical and Fundamental analysis to the point of having a strategy, sticking to it while learning along the way
5 - how much money are we talking about - £4,000 at present


I fell I've learnt a lot, but still just lacking a total and complete strategy

4,000 admittedly isn't going to turn you into a millionaire. So whether it "works" for you is very much dependent on what precisely would constitute a successful endeavour and how good that strategy was..lets do some maths..

Suppose you had a strategy/invested that £4000 regularly, and in 15 years returned £56k. now that 50k isn't exactly alot, however its over 1000% return given you only started with a relatively small sum.
Had you put more into it each month for example, say £150 per month, that return is now in the region of £180k
that's assuming you had a strategy that was part time that could return 19% per annum.
So can it be a part time thing... why not?

 

[kalott]

Just be careful with the fundamental thing if we enter a 3 year bear market

a buy the dip bull market is different than a brutal bear market

 

[soundmanshane]

its up to you

are you saying you want to move away from the funds and trade the market more directly/actively ?

Yes, as much as funds are fun. it's not really what I want to do. I'd love to learn the market and gain a good understanding and challenge myself

 

[soundmanshane]

4,000 admittedly isn't going to turn you into a millionaire. So whether it "works" for you is very much dependent on what precisely would constitute a successful endeavour and how good that strategy was..lets do some maths..

Suppose you had a strategy/invested that £4000 regularly, and in 15 years returned £56k. now that 50k isn't exactly alot, however its over 1000% return given you only started with a relatively small sum.
Had you put more into it each month for example, say £150 per month, that return is now in the region of £180k
that's assuming you had a strategy that was part time that could return 19% per annum.
So can it be a part time thing... why not?

I should have added more detail around this. I have 4k currently invested, however I am looking at adding to that monthly as well at a rate of £200 per month (while putting away £300 into savings as cash)

The big question is where do I start to research my 'part time' strategy

 

[soundmanshane]

Just be careful with the fundamental thing if we enter a 3 year bear market

a buy the dip bull market is different than a brutal bear market

I've learnt my lesson so far in the bear market. have lost about 30% over the last 6 months, albeit still up by about 14% over a 2 year period....Funds served me well

 

[Pat494]

Of course it can be a hobby. Even a distraction from the spouse/kids with daily trading from your desk in the evening.
You must be able to afford your wedge. Personally I would think £4000 is much too much to risk initially. Get a free demo account and have some fun. Losing money cramps one's style and trial systems.
Maybe keep your ears open to getting a flying start with help from a winning trader.

 

[soundmanshane]

Of course it can be a hobby. Even a distraction from the spouse/kids with daily trading from your desk in the evening.
You must be able to afford your wedge. Personally I would think £4000 is much too much to risk initially. Get a free demo account and have some fun. Losing money cramps one's style and trial systems.
Maybe keep your ears open to getting a flying start with help from a winning trader.

Where do I find winning traders ? too many people claiming to turn £100 into 1 million in 3 weeks etc..

 

[jeffre4]

Where do I find winning traders ? too many people claiming to turn £100 into 1 million in 3 weeks etc..

your on your own with that one

 

[soundmanshane]

your on your own with that one

From what I hear no traders are winning lol. I read a lot they says trading doesn't make people money...Makes me wonder why people do it unless they are trying to keep their stash secret

 

[Quantt]

From what I hear no traders are winning lol. I read a lot they says trading doesn't make people money...Makes me wonder why people do it unless they are trying to keep their stash secret

The reason is simple, the more people/money are trading the same strategy, the less effective it will become and in the end will be arbitraged away, that's why you won't find any sane person, who will share his winning ideas with you...

There are no shortcuts in life, you have to put the work if you want to become a doctor, trader, etc...

 

[mpups]

Yes, as much as funds are fun. it's not really what I want to do. I'd love to learn the market and gain a good understanding and challenge myself

Ok well from my experience its best not to mix the two approaches because it will lead to lack of focus i.e. the long term holdings will impact your decision making on the shorter term. And this doesn't have to mean day trading. Maybe better that it doesn't initially.

Keep your size small, focus on consistency. Forget the money gained and risks taken while trading funds. Its not your strategy.

 

[malaguti]

I should have added more detail around this. I have 4k currently invested, however I am looking at adding to that monthly as well at a rate of £200 per month (while putting away £300 into savings as cash)

The big question is where do I start to research my 'part time' strategy

ok, so the question then isn't whether it can be part time, its now where do I start?
great, so what steps have you taken so far? as quantt says, i think you'll be pushing people to just come out and tell you how they've become a winning trader..
what hard work have you put into it so far?
where do you enter the market and why, where do you exit and why? historically, how has this performed and then where do you think you could have improved? start listing your conditions for a good entry, note where you could/should have exited earlier
what markets were you trading, are there better markets you could have chosen? could those same parameters earlier have contributed to a better outcome on a different market as not all strtategies are universal, although generally the good ones are
where are you going to start soundmanshane? let us help you on your journey, just don't expect me to ride the bus getting there. hope that helps

 

[Pat494]

Where do I find winning traders ? too many people claiming to turn £100 into 1 million in 3 weeks etc..

You could try asking around the forums but bearing in mind the traders that can probably won't be interested.

 

[NVP]

Hi all,

I've spent the last 3 years investing in funds which has given me a decent return. I have always been keen to understand the fundamentals and technicals of investing and I have spent the last 2 months reading as much as I can, watching videos, going through books. I just simply don't have the time to be a day trader more of a investor I guess.
My question is can this be a 'part time thing' ?

I've attempted to answer basic questions i feel may be asked

1 Do I want to make money - Yes, but can live without it as my full time job provides enough
2 Am I happy losing money....No but accept this will happen, although I mitigate risk
3 How much time can I put into research....Currrently approx 10 hours per week looking at fundamentals/ looking at charts etc..
4 What are my aims - To understand Technical and Fundamental analysis to the point of having a strategy, sticking to it while learning along the way
5 - how much money are we talking about - £4,000 at present


I fell I've learnt a lot, but still just lacking a total and complete strategy

hey there

you are like 90% of the people i talk to .........and there is no accurate answer but there are a few hard brutal realities for you to digest

TRADING

the more time you spend on learning and trading the markets the more chance you have of reaching your trading / investing goals....but still not guaranteed

you will need a minimum of 10,000 hours of research and training to be even halfway to being a good trader .......and ive trained many traders

if you want to be an amateur / hobbiest then admit it and wear it ...........its no disgrace .....in fact its always huge respect from me when i see people walk away as they cant cut it or make the grade to the level they wanted or envisaged ....its not for everyone

you need capital to make money .......its an aggregate % return game based on managing risk reward and not overleveraging (although ESMA has made that more compulsory by the summer) .....steady steady profits is what we seek

if you overleverage and start to risk too much % capital on individual trades you will lose all your money over time.........

INVESTING

just a diluted version of trading ........and much lower returns

so your decision .........part time trading still needs all the same expertise as full time trading to make money so its a bit of a false paradigm

if you cant commit to the stuff above be prepared to lose all your money ........quick or slow ...you will bleed out

sorry buddy ...........you are either up for it and trading choses you or your not ............this is a lifetime Gig

and please dont believe the bulls**t out there from vendors promising you endless profits ..........it dont come without what ive already mentioned

happy to help
N:smart:

 

[NVP]

Where do I find winning traders ? too many people claiming to turn £100 into 1 million in 3 weeks etc..

you will find serious traders over time ......but it will take time and you need to prove you are worth training...also the more you learn up front the better you will be at finding the right trader/trainers (hint not 99% of the trainers out there (Promising dreams)

most top traders do train as it keeps their hand in .....but its much more of a secondary thing and the money charged is not important (still not cheap but peanuts to them)

i spent 10's of thousands on training over the years....but i got a lot out of it and the mentors i found were worth every penny

N

 

[soundmanshane]

ok, so the question then isn't whether it can be part time, its now where do I start?
great, so what steps have you taken so far? as quantt says, i think you'll be pushing people to just come out and tell you how they've become a winning trader..
what hard work have you put into it so far?
where do you enter the market and why, where do you exit and why? historically, how has this performed and then where do you think you could have improved? start listing your conditions for a good entry, note where you could/should have exited earlier
what markets were you trading, are there better markets you could have chosen? could those same parameters earlier have contributed to a better outcome on a different market as not all strtategies are universal, although generally the good ones are
where are you going to start soundmanshane? let us help you on your journey, just don't expect me to ride the bus getting there. hope that helps

Ah thanks for replying. I understand where it may seem I am coming from, I think maybe i'm looking for just a little push in the right direction as I don't believe I have a strategy yet.

Let me talk you through some of my trades

ZOO.L and APH.L - both were found using a screener which has some characteristics of Mark Minervini's ideologies (50MA 150MA and 200MA aligned in that order and showing a strong upward motion, there had been a recent new high high in charts) - The screener found 10's of results, so I screened the fundamentals looking at various points such as cash flow, assets, increase in revenue/profits then once it was narrowed down, I did research into the story and quite liked what ZOO and APH were about, the others were added to a watch list.

My point of entry for both was probably where I fell short, I entered both on a down day, but maybe didn't wait long enough or have an understanding of how to calculate a correct entry. There are 2 stocks I plan on holding shorter term to hopefully gain a small profit from both, I have current stop loss at a 4% loss (was originally 7% in case my research was bad) but stocks have gained so I keep increasing my stop loss. Both stocks have historically improved YOY with fundamentals and both look really strong going forward.

MTR and ARS - These I came across from listening to Vox Markets, I really liked the story they were selling, so set about going my own research into the stock. Both have reasonably weak fundamentals (compared to Zoo and APH) but how a lot of potential. I followed these for about 3 weeks looking into their daily close price, the fundamentals and the RNS's research. Both of these were purchased for potential and not necessarily previous chart trends (MTR for example has been trading sideways for approx a year). These are 2 longer term stocks I tend to hold. Both these stocks seem rollercoasters in price, can drop or rise by 7% in a day.

That is my current investment approach, I'm probably going to get slated because both sets of stocks were purchased for very different reasons and therefore probably doesn't lead me one strategy that I can stick it, but that's what I have so far.

On a daily basis I keep an eye on prices, looking at charts at close and do about about 30 mins of updates from social media, RNS's, news etc.. on each of my investments.

 

[soundmanshane]

hey there

you are like 90% of the people i talk to .........and there is no accurate answer but there are a few hard brutal realities for you to digest

TRADING

the more time you spend on learning and trading the markets the more chance you have of reaching your trading / investing goals....but still not guaranteed

you will need a minimum of 10,000 hours of research and training to be even halfway to being a good trader .......and ive trained many traders

if you want to be an amateur / hobbiest then admit it and wear it ...........its no disgrace .....in fact its always huge respect from me when i see people walk away as they cant cut it or make the grade to the level they wanted or envisaged ....its not for everyone

you need capital to make money .......its an aggregate % return game based on managing risk reward and not overleveraging (although ESMA has made that more compulsory by the summer) .....steady steady profits is what we seek

if you overleverage and start to risk too much % capital on individual trades you will lose all your money over time.........

INVESTING

just a diluted version of trading ........and much lower returns

so your decision .........part time trading still needs all the same expertise as full time trading to make money so its a bit of a false paradigm

if you cant commit to the stuff above be prepared to lose all your money ........quick or slow ...you will bleed out

sorry buddy ...........you are either up for it and trading choses you or your not ............this is a lifetime Gig

and please dont believe the bulls**t out there from vendors promising you endless profits ..........it dont come without what ive already mentioned

happy to help
N:smart:

Hi Very useful insight and thanks or that. I have a couple of additional points to make.

When I say part time trader, I don't mean I won't put in effort in learning, I love learning and challenging myself and I will continue to seek knowledge and develop in trading. I currently spend about 1/2 hours a night just watching focussed video's like what a bollnger band does, or how others use it, then re-watch the video another time, I also then spend a bit more time on the weekend doing the same thing or reading books, I've just finished Mark Miniervini's book and taken plenty of notes on some good points he mentioned and currently working my way througha book based on CAN SLIM (although i've since read some people think it's all BS)

I listen to VOX Markets Podcast daily and BBC 5 'Wake up to Money' podcast which reviews the US, UK and ASIA market and the current financial news (Retail shops are currently dying, but large outlets are thriving seems to be the latest UK trend)

When I say part time trader, I mean I want to develop a stragergy that will allow me to continue to do what I do, learn what I can learn, but not have to sit in front of the markets all day as my 9-5 job doesn't allow me to do that. I kinda want to do my weekend research on what I should buy or if I should sell, set up my buy points and exit points and then just spend the week working and checking in on close prices, news and any RNS's that have been released and repeat the next weekend adjusting my decisions.

I simply cannot or do not have the time to spend 4/5 hours a day trading or adjusting my decisions..I hope that makes more sense...I just don't know how to get to that point of having this kinda of strategy and I lack the confidence to feel I know that my entry/exit points are calculated and that I'm confident in my decisions.

I should point out I will continue to do the above learning, but the more i learn the more I move away from any kind of strategy.

 

[malaguti]

Ah thanks for replying. I understand where it may seem I am coming from, I think maybe i'm looking for just a little push in the right direction as I don't believe I have a strategy yet.

Let me talk you through some of my trades

ZOO.L and APH.L - both were found using a screener which has some characteristics of Mark Minervini's ideologies (50MA 150MA and 200MA aligned in that order and showing a strong upward motion, there had been a recent new high high in charts) - The screener found 10's of results, so I screened the fundamentals looking at various points such as cash flow, assets, increase in revenue/profits then once it was narrowed down, I did research into the story and quite liked what ZOO and APH were about, the others were added to a watch list.

My point of entry for both was probably where I fell short, I entered both on a down day, but maybe didn't wait long enough or have an understanding of how to calculate a correct entry. There are 2 stocks I plan on holding shorter term to hopefully gain a small profit from both, I have current stop loss at a 4% loss (was originally 7% in case my research was bad) but stocks have gained so I keep increasing my stop loss. Both stocks have historically improved YOY with fundamentals and both look really strong going forward.

MTR and ARS - These I came across from listening to Vox Markets, I really liked the story they were selling, so set about going my own research into the stock. Both have reasonably weak fundamentals (compared to Zoo and APH) but how a lot of potential. I followed these for about 3 weeks looking into their daily close price, the fundamentals and the RNS's research. Both of these were purchased for potential and not necessarily previous chart trends (MTR for example has been trading sideways for approx a year). These are 2 longer term stocks I tend to hold. Both these stocks seem rollercoasters in price, can drop or rise by 7% in a day.

That is my current investment approach, I'm probably going to get slated because both sets of stocks were purchased for very different reasons and therefore probably doesn't lead me one strategy that I can stick it, but that's what I have so far.

On a daily basis I keep an eye on prices, looking at charts at close and do about about 30 mins of updates from social media, RNS's, news etc.. on each of my investments.

ok thanks for sharing and great as a starting point, one thing that has helped me tremendously is backtesting ideas. if I did x, what difference would it have made.
if i cant backtest and be systematic about something i personally cant trust in its viability as an entry or exit. its then nothing more than cherry picking.
so let me do something, and that is try and backtest your idea first of all. I'll pm the results, and then we can look at where to improve the results

for now, so as not to digress, its absolutely possible to take a part time approach and make money from it, providing you have a decent enough strategy. it does take patience and perseverance of which I have no doubt you have both
in the mean time (whilst we look at the most rudimentary of strategies) search within this forum, stan weinstein it was a thread started by ISATRADER, he practices what he preaches and is transparent and its based off a weekly chart, and he makes money!! he for one proves it can be done.
in the mean time i hope i can help in your journey..i'll be in touch

here we go, the thread. go through it, really and get the book of which ISA is again transparent in how he follows
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/technical-analysis/134944-stan-weinsteins-stage-analysis.html