Better Binary provider?

[David85]

Hi

I am new to all this, but trading is something I have always wanted to do.

I have been excited by the idea of binary bets and recently opened an account with Finspreads to trade hourlies on the FTSE and Dow.

However, 90% of my trades are being rejected, and I get the message 'The price has moved on, Please try again'. This happens even if the market is not moving. I have asked them about this and they say it only happens when the market is volatile, but that is not right. Also, I have noticed that they often switch to 'Phone only' dealing, for periods ranging from a few seconds to several minutes. This frightens me as binaries can move very fast.

I wondered if any T2W members know of a binary provider who is more reliable/has a more user-friendly interface?

I would appreciate any guidance you can offer.

Regards

David

 

[dgproject]

Hi David,

I'm not a regular trader, but I reckon that binarybet.com is a pretty decent one. Choiceodds.com is another one, but when I have to believe the stories here on the forum, then that one is rejecting a lot.

Why not try Betfair? Although the quote representation isn't in the binaries format, the markets are actually the same. Liquidity is ok, and you're always immediately accepted (unless the counterparty removed his/her quote ofcourse).

Best,

Dirk

 

[Pippppin]

Hi

I am new to all this, but trading is something I have always wanted to do.

I have been excited by the idea of binary bets and recently opened an account with Finspreads to trade hourlies on the FTSE and Dow.

However, 90% of my trades are being rejected, and I get the message 'The price has moved on, Please try again'. This happens even if the market is not moving. I have asked them about this and they say it only happens when the market is volatile, but that is not right. Also, I have noticed that they often switch to 'Phone only' dealing, for periods ranging from a few seconds to several minutes. This frightens me as binaries can move very fast.

I wondered if any T2W members know of a binary provider who is more reliable/has a more user-friendly interface?

I would appreciate any guidance you can offer.

Regards

David

A scout around this site will reveal deep disenchantment with Finspreads...they seem to have long since become a bit of a joke.

Are you really sure that binaries are the best way forward?

 

[nutter punter]

Use Betfair as you can market make rather than price take.

 

[David85]

Thanks for the advice.

I see what you mean re adverse comment on Finspreads.

I will check Binarybet and Betfair. The reason I am looking at binaries is that they seem to act as 'volatility magnifiers', which could be useful I think.

I am interested in your comments re market-making, Nutter Punter, but I have no clue how to do that.

Regards

David

 

[rav700]

Hi

I am new to all this, but trading is something I have always wanted to do.

I have been excited by the idea of binary bets and recently opened an account with Finspreads to trade hourlies on the FTSE and Dow.

However, 90% of my trades are being rejected, and I get the message 'The price has moved on, Please try again'. This happens even if the market is not moving. I have asked them about this and they say it only happens when the market is volatile, but that is not right. Also, I have noticed that they often switch to 'Phone only' dealing, for periods ranging from a few seconds to several minutes. This frightens me as binaries can move very fast.

I wondered if any T2W members know of a binary provider who is more reliable/has a more user-friendly interface?

I would appreciate any guidance you can offer.

Regards

David

Hi David,
I just thought I would give my 2 pennies worth..........
Binary betting is not the right way to start your trading.....A few wins mean nothing at all on binaries...
I have traded over 5000 trades with them and believe me.......That is after a lot of years experiance....Sometimes it can be profitable but there is so much market manipulation that the chances of you loosing are much higher than wiinning...
I have the odd punt now and then on guaranteed trades but hourly's and 20 mins are a joke.....
If you are really want to start trading....try some paper trading with something like the ftse100 indices and try and build a point portfolio which mean try and achieve a certain amount of points a week\ month once you are confident with that you can make say about 200 points a month...on paper then try cash trading it with something nominal like £2 /£5 a point and move your way upwards......

This is just my advice.....Please stay away from binaries if you are new to trading....
Or you will have more pockets in your holes than ever before...

Happy Trading
Rav

 

[rav700]

Also Forgot to mention....to you
Finspreads....Stay away

I will not suggest any binary traders to you as it would be like pushing you off the edge of the cliff...
If you need help preparing a tradng plan and would like to start off trading for real..send me a P.M
May be I can help you...

Best of luck
Rav

 

[HappyArber]

As you say binaries are ‘volatility magnifiers’ and that is why rejects occasionally occur because tiny movements in the underlying, particularly near expiry cause the binary price to jump around like crazy. That is true for all the companies tho, altho some are worse than others.

Everyone seems really negative on these boards - my advice is to rely on your own experience. My 2p's worth is that Choice Odds did reject a quite few trades early on but have improved a lot recently and are now accepting most of my bets and I’m on there most days. If you are only starting trading David then I expect you will only want to risk low stakes so CO's 10p per point is good. I trade a few pounds a point with them and to be fair to them, they are quite consistent about rejecting bets whether the price is moving for me or against me. There have been one or two times when I’m glad they rejected what proved to be losing trades (!) – they seem to be playing fair

In my opinion, the platform is also easy to use too - I don't think binary bets is very well set out cos the drop-downs are all in a muddle and it takes forever to find your bet.

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

They have a fair rejection rate but these are very volatile products and they take a lot of very short term risk. I prefer the new BetsForTraders.com and BinaryBet.com for OTC bets but they don't do a bad job.

 

[TruthTrader]

Hi

I am new to all this, but trading is something I have always wanted to do.

I have been excited by the idea of binary bets and recently opened an account with Finspreads to trade hourlies on the FTSE and Dow.

However, 90% of my trades are being rejected, and I get the message 'The price has moved on, Please try again'. This happens even if the market is not moving. I have asked them about this and they say it only happens when the market is volatile, but that is not right. Also, I have noticed that they often switch to 'Phone only' dealing, for periods ranging from a few seconds to several minutes. This frightens me as binaries can move very fast.

I wondered if any T2W members know of a binary provider who is more reliable/has a more user-friendly interface?

I would appreciate any guidance you can offer.

Regards

David

KNAVES AND CURS

Finspreads' binary betting 'function' seems like a vanity-offering only now: they can't be making any money with it as they don't accept bets any more as far as I know. Maybe they're just too proud to throw in the towel...

They are the betting version of Derren Brown imo: "Watch the flashing numbers...You are now feeling very stupid...You want to give us your money."

David, you should be pleased they are not taking your bets. In fact, if you are reading this and you are having your bets taken by Finspreads, you should be afraid: very, very, afraid

Binarybet are the only outfit I have found in this space who consistently approach professional: not perfect, but better than the rest. Haven't tried ChoiceOdds yet: don't like no one-click dealing, and it sounds like they reject a lot; not a surprise :arrowd:

Cheers

TT

 

[HappyArber]

Not tried Fins but sounds like its not worth a go from what TruthTrader has said.

My view on the big two are that Choice odds is easier to navigate, and they and Binarybet tend to reject and accept at the same rate. CO customer services seem a bit friendlier too. They seem a bit more on the aball generally.

For someone starting out like David85, Choice may be a better option cos their minimum stake is 10p per point.

 

[Bintrader]

Yes, have to agree with you all. Fins, choice etc. have all become joke binary outfits, either random switch offs, rejected trades or silly spreads. IG/BB really the only game in town.

Not tried Fins but sounds like its not worth a go from what TruthTrader has said.

My view on the big two are that Choice odds is easier to navigate, and they and Binarybet tend to reject and accept at the same rate. CO customer services seem a bit friendlier too. They seem a bit more on the aball generally.

For someone starting out like David85, Choice may be a better option cos their minimum stake is 10p per point.

 

[HappyArber]

I agree with bins except i think Choice and BB are about equal but Choice are easier to use and have lower min stakes.

Competition is always going to be best for us and the better performers like these 2 are likely to attract the most customers.

I have a soft spot for choice tho cos they are specialist whereas i think BB (IG) might be bully boys who are only in the market to crush newcommers. BB is like Tescos Metro stores if you like. i don't think they are committed to binaries in the way that choice are. If they see off all the competition then they could easily get rid of binaries or just run a rubbish service without any fear cos there isn't any competititon.

defo fins are the worst tho. i like choices sense of humour.

Yes, have to agree with you all. Fins, choice etc. have all become joke binary outfits, either random switch offs, rejected trades or silly spreads. IG/BB really the only game in town.

 

[riwf]

Happy Arber says:

I have a soft spot for choice tho cos they are specialist whereas i think BB (IG) might be bully boys who are only in the market to crush newcommers. BB is like Tescos Metro stores if you like. i don't think they are committed to binaries in the way that choice are. If they see off all the competition then they could easily get rid of binaries or just run a rubbish service without any fear cos there isn't any competititon.

I don't understand the logic of this. BB has been in business for years now and have consistently made money from binaries. So much so that their holding company IG Index set up ExtraBet a year or so ago which, long before ChoiceOdds, allowed small wagers. I have never known of a company that has crushed its opposition only to close down itself. What would be the advantage? Surely the whole point about markets - which, after all, is what we are dealing in - is that where there is demand so there will be supply. So long as there are enough people - and I'm sure there are - who want to utilise binaries for betting purposes, there will be companies to offer the opportunity.

Personally, I'm not a great fan of ChoiceOdds, because they only offer the opportunity to lay bets on Floating Binaries. I think betsfortraders is going to offer better opportunities to the experienced binary trader.

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

I agree. BetsForTraders.com does not provide a simple 'off-the-shelf' solution lke some of the others with fixed barriers and expiry times but they offer the most flexible bets out there. It lets you create your optimal bet under a million different situations.

I called them today to ask when they will let me open a real money account. I didn't get a date but got the impression that it was soon. Does anybody have any more info on this?

NQR

 

[HappyArber]

riwf - you have to bear in mind that BB is part of a bigger company whose main interest is spreads. so if they saw binaries as a way in to a whole new customer base, they might try to capture it even if it wasn't profitable. that way they can stop potential customers signing up with rivals. binaries would be like a feeder school for spreads. IG have the money to run at a loss just to crush competition and maintain a strangehold which means poor prices and service.

as for betsfortraders - i think the jury is well and truly out. sure it sounds like an interesting proposition but 1) if every product is unique, there is no direct price comparision so the price you fget might be rubbish 2) with a more complicated product, it takes more work to see if the price is fair for the proposition 3) if everyone is taking slightly different products, it will be a nightmare book to run for them cos you won't get bets on both sides of any market, their risk profile will be crazy, they won't be able to hedge risk effectively (nor will we) and the outcome will be that there will be lots of bets rejected or (more likely) they give a price they will accept a bet on for every position you can create with the slidy bars BUT that is only because the price is so poor for what is proposed that their margin is huge and they can comfortably accept everything and still make money.

Because its all hidden and complicated by all the different variables for the bet and you don't see a BUY and SELL price on the same page, you don't see the MASSIVE SPREAD. I just flicked between the 3 day One Touch and No Touch on the AUS/$ and there is a 12!!!!! point spread! they haven't even gone live yet! Has anyone else spotted this?

its the flip side of the manual approval coin - if you have automatic approval then they make you pay through the nose for it. Each product may be bespoke but just like a taylored suit, you pay for the privelege.

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

I agree, the 1 touch / no touch spreads are a little wider than a few of the other vendors but they give you 100% control. You set your own barrier level and expiry time. Most of the others offer just one or a few expiry times which would never suit my trading agenda. I need FULL customisation and these guys offer that with bells on.

So many of their bets are unique and not offered by anyone else that I can structure multi-bet payoff profiles to perfectly reflect my market view in a way that I couldn't come close to doing with the others. Take ChoiceOdds for example, they only offer a few intraday strikes on about half a dozen markets and their only boast is that they quote the same product using two methods, fixed-odds and binary. BetsForTraders offer that bet type quoted in about 5 different ways. Big deal - it is still just a binary however you polish it.

Hedging a portfolio of risk is no more difficult for someone with millions of bets on offer than for the smaller guys with just a few. All the greeks can be amalgamated, grouped and the net exposures on different assets can be hedged by their order (delta, gamma, vega and so on). In any event I don't really care about their hedging methods.

I have just placed my 400th bet on the BetsForTraders beta site and am up 935% on my money as of now. I have also only had (yes, I record them) 6 bets rejected in volatile markets. That is 1.5%. The dealing interface, the product range and the flexibility make these guys the best 'over the counter' provider there is. I just wish they would hurry up and go live. I have written a programme which scans for arbs between them and binarybet and they come up several times a day.

As an aside, I have started systematically quoting prices both sides of the (very wide) spread on Intrade using my own models for their binary bets. Although BetsForTraders are quite obviously the best OTC bookie I am still married to the Intrade concept. Well worth a look.

Just my 2c.

NQR

 

[HappyArber]

I have just placed my 400th bet on the BetsForTraders beta site and am up 935% on my money as of now. NQR

1) There you have the very reason why they won't go live - their prices are rubbish.
2) You have also just fast tracked yourself to having your account closed as soon as they go live.
3) They can afford not to reject anything when there is no real money at stake.
4) You should care how they can hedge (which they can't if no one else offers their products) because unless they have someone filling both sides of a bet they are taking a risk which means that if you win, they lose - so they might start rejecting more bets or close you down.

Betsfortraders might work in an academic bubble, with lots of clients and a perfect pricing model but in the real world i think it is giong to fall very very flat.

 

[NotQuiteRandom]

HappyArber, in response to your points:

1) Their prices are not far off fair value when running a monte carlo or feeding market implied vols & other parameters into a closed form approximation. Having a background in financial maths this was the first thing I tried. Note also that this applies to Binary bet and BOM, they are all pretty close.

2) According to their help desk they hedge and their hedging error is mandated at a maximum term under their corporate charter and supervised by their auditors. I can figure out how they do so but am really not interested beyond what I have learned. I have been assured that they do not make a loss from my gains and know this to be a perfect mathematical possibility. Call them for more information, they are very helpful.

3) I agree - we will have to monitor this when they go live.

I am doing an increasing amount of my trading and hedging using binary bets and am delighted that another serious player is entering the market. There is a real lack of product out there with only one other letting you have a decent choice as to expiry time and other parameters.

After reading your very minor contributions to this forum which only serve to knock Ladbrokes and BetsForTraders I can only assume that you are a pathetic plant by one of the other binary providers. Go home and leave this forum for traders to discuss interesting developments in the binary market place on their own. Shame on you!

 

[81supertrader]

For me the betsfortraders.com is the preferred one. It has the only timeswitch bets and so much other bets that the less good small company of choiceodds and ladbrokes does not to have. Those last 2 have same software I think or they do copy eachother with not very much to offer I think.

I am beta tester for betsfortraders.com and they have given me 100 euro when they go live as gift to so much beta testing. I do not do the maths but I do bet and cfd trade for 4 years of full time with technical analysis method from points and figure. I want to see that prices stay same after the live date for them so I can trade for my money. If they do, good, if do not, that is fine, I will not be customer. Their email says it is same so I hope so because so far my beta profit has enough for my new moterbike ;-)