Arcade fees

[rog1111]

Hi all

I have recently been quoted the following by a reputed offshore arcade :-

£1750 pm for TT software including one exchange of LIFFE, EUREX, CBOT, CME, MATIF

plus £0.46 per lot (LIFFE) for under 5000 lots pm, dropping to £0.40 for 30,000 to 50,000 lots

To save me the bother of emailing every company around, could anyone tell me whether this is about the norm ?

TIA
rog1111

 

[TWI]

That is fairly standard although following would be issue that I would argue:
1750 should include something like CQG for charting (even if shared) and try to get dual screen on TT to follow more than one market it will help. I pay 1350pm for this. If you add an exchange in the future it should only cost ~250GBP

when they drop to 0.40p do they credit you for your entire volume or just that above 30k? Sliding scale is fine for upto around 40k but at some point they should offer to drop all lots done in month if a certain target is met. For me this is 40,000lots. The costs are a few pence more than I pay but I do not think they are high.

 

[rog1111]

twalker

Good point about the volumes - I'll ask.

The desk fees are as follows :

The Prices for the first TT or RTS system includes the following costs:

Trading PC
Rent
Telephone charges
1 x CQG screen
To view 1 slaved Reuters screen
To view 1 slaved Bloomberg screen.
1 x Internet/TV screen and pc
Technical analysis sheets
IT Support


RTS has access to two exchanges LIFFE and EUREX
RTS trading software 1 exchange £1,500.00
RTS trading software 2 exchange’s £1,750.00


TT has access to five exchanges LIFFE, EUREX, CBOT, CME, MATIF
TT trading software 1 exchange £1,750.00
TT trading software 2 exchange’s £1,927.00
TT trading software 5 exchange’s £2,025.00


Additional charges per month
To supply one 15” flat screen £ 40.00
To View analytical software Forecast £100.00
Additional trading screen £100.00
Your own CQG at cost
To supply arms for flat screens £20.00


....so it looks like one TT screen & a shared CQG screen.

rog1111

 

[TWI]

OK, well the desk fee is around the norm, think I have a good deal but you get quite a lot of info provided. If you are trading Liffe suggest you try to share CQG with other Liffe traders so you have a relevant screen always up.
Most important thing is your round turn costs as these will end up your main expense. Make sure they pay you refunds for volume on Liffe, the exchange should pay this into your trading account, although when you get above 20,000rt/ mnth they pay an additional rebate into your bank account (which should about cover your desk fee). If you are new to Liffe make sure you get on the "new trader scheme" which will pay you great rebates for the first 3 months, just claim you are a complete novice and they will let you on.
My lot costs start at 45p and drop to 38p so about the same.

 

[rog1111]

Here's the full list of commissions :

All LIFFE futures

lots rate per lot in GBP
0 5,000 0.46
5,001 10,000 0.44
10,001 30,000 0.42
30,001 50,000 0.40
50,000 70,000 0.38
70,000 90,000 0.37
90,000 120,000 0.36
120,000+ 0.35


Eurex Bund/Bobl/Schatz futures

lots rate per lot in Euros
0 10,000 0.42
10,001 30,000 0.37
30,000 50,000 0.36
50,000 70,000 0.35
70,000 90,000 0.33
90,000 120,000 0.32
120,000+ 0.30


Eurex Dax future

lots rate per lot in Euros
0 10,000 0.80
10,001 40,000 0.75
40,001 90,000 0.70
90,000 0 0.65


Eurex Eurostoxx future

lots rate per lot in Euros
0 10,000 0.51
10,001 30,000 0.47
30,000 50,000 0.46
50,000 70000 0.45
70,000 90,000 0.43
90,000 110,000 0.42
110,000+ 0.40

Eurex FSMI future

lots rate per lot in Swiss Francs
0 10,000 0.65
10,001 40,000 0.55
40,001 90,000 0.50
90,000 0 0.45


CBOT maxi futures

lots rate per lot in USD
0 10,000 1.75
10,001 40,000 1.70
40,001 90,000 1.65
90,000 0 1.60


CBOT mini futures

lots rate per lot in USD
0 10,000 1.00
10,001 40,000 0.95
40,001 90,000 0.90
90,000 0 0.85


Matif Pibor/Eurostoxx/Notional futures

lots rate per lot in Euros
0 10,000 0.55
10,001 40,000 0.50
40,001 90,000 0.45
90,000 0 0.40


Matif CAC future

lots rate per lot in Euros
0 10,000 0.65
10,001 40,000 0.60
40,001 90,000 0.55
90,000 0 0.50


CME Currency Futures

lots rate per lot in USD
0 10,000 2.05
10,001 40,000 2.00
40,001 90,000 1.95
90,000 0 1.90


CME Mini Currency Futures

lots rate per lot in USD
0 10,000 1.30
10,001 40,000 1.25
40,001 90,000 1.20
90,000 0 1.15


CME Mini Indexes Futures

lots rate per lot in USD
0 10,000 1.60
10,001 40,000 1.55
40,001 90,000 1.50
90,000 0 1.45

rog1111

 

[TWI]

OK, that is fine but Liffe pay rebates to you on top of that. The fees you list are from the arcade alone. Liffe will pay you rebate based on volume and how far out along the curve you trade. It is not an easy formula and they provide a spreadsheet to work it out. Just be aware of this cos you will be owed it.

 

[rog1111]

twalker

OK thanks I'll ask them upfront. Every little helps.

rog1111

 

[TWI]

It is not a little there are guys here who get 20k+ per month just in exchange rebates. If you can make around 20000 lots in a month it is worth 1k-1.5k so well worth while, it effectively then pays your desk fee.

 

[mike001]

rog1111

If you are interested in trading in Gibraltar, try the GH Financials branch office. They only cater for experienced traders though (no training package), but they offer the best deal:

Desk: £1600/month (includes RTS/TT one exchange front end. internet, remote trading connectivity, Bloomberg, Charts/Forecasting and Squawk)

Liffe Futures and Options
0-25000 lots/month £0.41/lot
25000+ lots/month £0.34/lot
(in excess of 25000 every lot is charged at £0.34 flat rate.)
Liffe liquidity rebates are passed separately and directly to the trader.

Eurex Bund/Bobl/Schatz
0-20000 lots/month Euro0.36/lot
20000-80000 lots/month Euro0.30/lot
80000+ lots/month Euro0.27/lot

Eurostoxx: add Euro0.10/lot
Dax : add Euro0.30/lot
(Eurex fees graduated, once the limit is reached the following band will apply

You can get all the details from [email protected]

good luck
mike001

 

[TWI]

Mike
Do GHF also offer these fees in UK?

 

[BBB]

GHF do their own clearing, and that of other prop houses and are based in London. Thats probably why they can afford lower fees (?)

 

[rog1111]

Mike

Thanks for the info - that's well worth knowing, I didn't know they had an office in Gib. Funny, but I dont remember mentioning Gib, how did you know ?

To be frank I'm not yet fully up to spec on RTS or TT, so I'll probably have to go down the other route, initially at least.

rog1111

 

[rog1111]

tw

I checked with them, and the lower lot rate applies to total volume, not just the amount over the threshold. Also the LIFFE rebates are payable in full.

rog1111

OK, that is fine but Liffe pay rebates to you on top of that. The fees you list are from the arcade alone. Liffe will pay you rebate based on volume and how far out along the curve you trade. It is not an easy formula and they provide a spreadsheet to work it out. Just be aware of this cos you will be owed it.

 

[rog1111]

Yes, quite ! I checked & they do pay the LIFFE rebate.

roger

It is not a little there are guys here who get 20k+ per month just in exchange rebates. If you can make around 20000 lots in a month it is worth 1k-1.5k so well worth while, it effectively then pays your desk fee.

 

[STE1]

why use an arcade for higher fees than you could get going direct with fortis or GNI?

I believe fortis are £0.25 per lot LIFFE 0-5000 lots; 0.25euro per side ditto Eurex. Or do your numbers include exchange fees?

 

[TWI]

Yeah, the numbers include exchange fee. For Liffe this is currently 56p/rt
so that makes 25p/lot look expensive

 

[STE1]

cool. are these kind of rates available to remote traders? are we talking about accounts held directly with the clearer or is it omnibus/non-segregated?

btw, fortis go to £0.08 on liffe and 0.10E on Eurex after about 20k lots...

Ste1

not a customer or affiliated with fortis in any way - i cannot vouch for their current schedule...

 

[TWI]

Yep, most offer sliding scales. I do not know anybody that will offer these rates to remote clients unless they are doing at least 20k rt/mnth but if you have a desk at GHF you can VPN remotely from home.

 

[mike001]

twalker

the information came from GH Financials service agent in Gibraltar, Kayseri Ltd, and the rates apply for that office only.

GH have a website though, www.ghf.co.uk, maybe that would help.


rog1111

i thought in the same thread that someone mentioned going for an interview in Gibraltar and just assumed that was the offshore office you were talking about.

to be honest i'm not quite up to speed on using this site and couldn't find my way back there to check!

mike001

 

[rog1111]

mike

No problem - good assumption !

I see that you are in Spain - anywhere near Gib ?

rog1111

rog1111

i thought in the same thread that someone mentioned going for an interview in Gibraltar and just assumed that was the offshore office you were talking about.

to be honest i'm not quite up to speed on using this site and couldn't find my way back there to check!

mike001