Am I a bit bonkers?

[slicendice73]

Hi everyone,

I'm a total newbie to all things trading (as in a *TOTAL* newbie!) so this is my very first, very tentative step into what is a totally foreign environment for me.

The reason I'm here, in a nutshell, is that I want to help my brother (who lives in the USA). He has recently gone through a really messy divorce in which he got absolutely shafted and is now in a pretty precarious position financially. Sadly, it's not just his finances that have taken a massive hit...it turns out that his now ex-wife is a narcissist who had been abusing him for years (financially, emotionally, physically). This has had a devastating effect on his mental health and left him bordering on PTSD. Add to that the fact that she ran up huge debts before the divorce, knowing she could offload half of them onto him...so he now has a debt of ~£80k and absolutely no way of paying it off.

The long and the short of it is that I want to try and help him out and trading was one of the ways that seemed like it might be possible to generate some income. I'm by no means wealthy myself, otherwise I'd just pay his debt and be done with it. But sadly I can't, so here I am. I'm not looking to make £millions and start living the jet-set lifestyle (that so isn't me!)...I just want to see if I can help my brother make a dent in his debts.

The challenge I'm facing is that there is SO MUCH information out there that it's kind of overwhelming...books, websites, training courses, YouTube videos, etc, etc all claiming they can show you how to make money. I've ploughed through a bunch of stuff and whilst some of it has been useful, there's been some quite contradictory advice - one video might say "You should do XYZ and ignore anyone who says otherwise"...and then another video says "Don't do XYZ and ignore anyone who says otherwise"!

I have a full-time job myself so whereas it would be nice to dedicate a whole bunch of time to this each day, realistically that's not going to be possible. I know it's going to take time...though quite how much time there is until the dung hits the spreader is a bit of an unknown, given that the way my brother's debt has been structured is that his ex-wife has to pay the debts in full and he then has to pay half to her. And after pleading penury during the divorce hearing, she has now (surprise surprise!) suddenly found money to start paying the debts off...so I just don't know how much time there will be until he has some major bills knocking on his door.

I'm under no illusions as to what's possible and I realise that trading is not a "get rich quick" type thing; making a stack of cash in a short time without any experience is total pie-in-the-sky and simply won't happen. But if I can at least get to the point of having enough knowledge to make a judgement call as to whether trading is a feasible option (for me) or not, that would really help.

So my time on T2W at this point is simply for the purposes of information gathering. I've started reading the articles on here about being new to trading (e.g. I'm New To T2W - Where Do I Start? & Essentials Of 'New To Trading') and they are very informative, so I'll keep reading those. Tbh, they're also quite scary! To the point that I really don't know if I'm doing a sensible thing...? But that's why I'm here...to try and ascertain whether this is something worth getting into or not.

The main question I have at the moment is as per the title of this post...am I a bit bonkers? Is this a really bad idea? Should I be looking elsewhere for ways to help? I guess that's very subjective and it will vary from person to person, but I'd still be interested to hear opinions.

One other question I have is, how many of the members on here do this in their spare time? Do you trade around your normal job? And if so, how much time do you dedicate to it (roughly)?

Apologies for the lengthy post...if you made it this far, thank you

 

[Riddler]

Hello and welcome.

Is there any interest on this debt (if so what are the rates), what assets does he own post-divorce (if any) and how long does he have to clear it down?

I've read and heard so much testimony from successful traders and whether it be a live interview or one recorded for print in a book the common first question is "why/how did you get started in trading?" and I'm yet to hear anybody reply "I was in financial distress" or "I wanted to help someone in financial distress" and there's a reason for that.

Has your brother got at least 2 jobs? By now he should have, one full-time and the other a delivery or some other gig economy job he can do for another 6 hours once he gets off his main job and 10 hours on Sat and again on Sun.

Should I be looking elsewhere for ways to help?

Absolutely. Trading is not the answer from this starting position, you'll likely just end up joining your brother in fianancial hardship and then a bank job will start to look like the only remaining hope.

I would suggest instead that you too get a 2nd job and dedicate all of the proceeds to your brother's cause. In the meantime open a HY saving account and just dump the extra cash into it. Since your brother I assume will be tackling most of the debt why not set yourself a target of making a $20k contribution to him, thats four lots of $5k milestones for you to hit, working evenings and weekends on your 2nd job should have you hitting this goal in short order. Teaching people how to play a musical instrument or helping them to train in the gym if you are competent will pay better than delivering takeouts but ultimately any 2nd job will do as long as it pays something, it may just take a bit longer.

 

[slicendice73]

Hello and welcome.

Is there any interest on this debt (if so what are the rates), what assets does he own post-divorce (if any) and how long does he have to clear it down?

I've read and heard so much testimony from successful traders and whether it be a live interview or one recorded for print in a book the common first question is "why/how did you get started in trading?" and I'm yet to hear anybody reply "I was in financial distress" or "I wanted to help someone in financial distress" and there's a reason for that.

Has your brother got at least 2 jobs? By now he should have, one full-time and the other a delivery or some other gig economy job he can do for another 6 hours once he gets off his main job and 10 hours on Sat and again on Sun.


Absolutely. Trading is not the answer from this starting position, you'll likely just end up joining your brother in fianancial hardship and then a bank job will start to look like the only remaining hope.

I would suggest instead that you too get a 2nd job and dedicate all of the proceeds to your brother's cause. In the meantime open a HY saving account and just dump the extra cash into it. Since your brother I assume will be tackling most of the debt why not set yourself a target of making a $20k contribution to him, thats four lots of $5k milestones for you to hit, working evenings and weekends on your 2nd job should have you hitting this goal in short order. Teaching people how to play a musical instrument or helping them to train in the gym if you are competent will pay better than delivering takeouts but ultimately any 2nd job will do as long as it pays something, it may just take a bit longer.

Thanks very much for the reply and your insights...much appreciated.

The debt isn't accruing interest at the moment, but I don't how the court will schedule the debt repayment at the point where she has paid it off in full and he then owes her half...whenever that is. It is possible it could then start to accrue interest at that point (hence the need to get stuck into it ASAP).

I very much appreciate that trading is not something people get into to clear debt - it was simply something I've been looking into to try and find how I can help. Given what I've found out, and what you've said, I think it's not something that would be a good fit for my situation. I'm not saying I'll never look into it again, but I think for the moment it will need to go onto a back burner.

On a slightly different (though linked) subject, does anyone have any perspective on the best way to electronically transfer money from the UK to the US? And by best, I mean the most efficient in terms of fees. I realise there's always going to be a fee but I was wondering what the most cost effective approach would be.

 

[timsk]

Hi slicendice73,
Welcome to T2W.

I'm a long standing member of T2W and former member of staff who wrote both the articles you linked to and all the FAQs. That said, there are plenty of folk who will tell you that I know diddly squat about trading and that anything I say should be taken with a large pinch of salt. I concur with that point of view. Yes, you read that correctly: I agree with them 100%! Don't take anything strangers on the interwebs say about trading as gospel - conduct your own research, due diligence and draw your own conclusions.

The main question I have at the moment is as per the title of this post...am I a bit bonkers?

Almost certainly, yes, I'm sorry to say it is.
You say you're not wealthy; the inference being that you haven't got, say £100k starting capital? If you have a decent to chunk to invest (note emphasis), and your goal is to make a tad more (not a lot more) each year than you'd get from a bank or building society, then there are trend trading strategies that - all other things being equal - ought to achieve that. But there are no guarantees. If you're starting off with more modest starting capital - say £10k - and are looking to turn that into £80k to clear your bro's debts - that ain't gonna happen. Buy a lottery ticket each week instead, as the odds of winning the jackpot are better!

Is this a really bad idea?

Reading your reply to the good advice you've got from Riddler - I think you've already answered your own question!

Should I be looking elsewhere for ways to help? I guess that's very subjective and it will vary from person to person, but I'd still be interested to hear opinions.

As Riddler says, a second job or a 'normal' business venture if you have the necessary skills.

One other question I have is, how many of the members on here do this in their spare time? Do you trade around your normal job? And if so, how much time do you dedicate to it (roughly)?

I day traded full time for a year in 2008 and ended it with a small profit minus commissions and a small loss after them. Many pros will say I did okay but, needless to say, the bills didn't get paid. So, I went back to full time employment and just trade part-time for fun. Essentially, it's a hobby. Most T2W members - past and present - trade around another job and, if trading makes them some extra money, then that's icing on the cake. Not many rely on it for their main income. That said, a few do and, of them, a tiny handful do extremely well.

Apologies for the lengthy post...if you made it this far, thank you

Good luck to you and your bro'. It sounds like getting shot of his Mrs. is the best thing that could have happened to him and, hopefully, his eyes will be opened as to the myriad of opportunities and possibilities without her.
Tim.

 

[slicendice73]

Hi slicendice73,
Welcome to T2W.

I'm a long standing member of T2W and former member of staff who wrote both the articles you linked to and all the FAQs. That said, there are plenty of folk who will tell you that I know diddly squat about trading and that anything I say should be taken with a large pinch of salt. I concur with that point of view. Yes, you read that correctly: I agree with them 100%! Don't take anything strangers on the interwebs say about trading as gospel - conduct your own research, due diligence and draw your own conclusions.

Almost certainly, yes, I'm sorry to say it is.
You say you're not wealthy; the inference being that you haven't got, say £100k starting capital? If you have a decent to chunk to invest (note emphasis), and your goal is to make a tad more (not a lot more) each year than you'd get from a bank or building society, then there are trend trading strategies that - all other things being equal - ought to achieve that. But there are no guarantees. If you're starting off with more modest starting capital - say £10k - and are looking to turn that into £80k to clear your bro's debts - that ain't gonna happen. Buy a lottery ticket each week instead, as the odds of winning the jackpot are better!

Reading your reply to the good advice you've got from Riddler - I think you've already answered your own question!

As Riddler says, a second job or a 'normal' business venture if you have the necessary skills.

I day traded full time for a year in 2008 and ended it with a small profit minus commissions and a small loss after them. Many pros will say I did okay but, needless to say, the bills didn't get paid. So, I went back to full time employment and just trade part-time for fun. Essentially, it's a hobby. Most T2W members - past and present - trade around another job and, if trading makes them some extra money, then that's icing on the cake. Not many rely on it for their main income. That said, a few do and, of them, a tiny handful do extremely well.

Good luck to you and your bro'. It sounds like getting shot of his Mrs. is the best thing that could have happened to him and, hopefully, his eyes will be opened as to the myriad of opportunities and possibilities without her.
Tim.

Thanks Tim...some very helpful info and advice there

It does indeed look like it's not a good option at the moment. And no, sadly I don't have a spare £100k knocking around! (Tis nice to dream though!).

Despite it looking clearly like trading is not a sensible path to take, it does still interest me, so I'll probably hang around and see what I can learn. But in terms of putting any actual cash into it...it seems like that's a big no no.

Yes, 100% agree re him getting shut of the Mrs being a good thing...she was poison (still is tbh) and the damage she's done is pretty catastrophic. He's simply not the person he used to be :-( Sadly there are two young kids involved as well which makes everything 100 times harder.

But there we go...such is life. I will see what other options are out there and take it from there...

Thanks again

 

[timsk]

. . . Despite it looking clearly like trading is not a sensible path to take, it does still interest me, so I'll probably hang around and see what I can learn. But in terms of putting any actual cash into it...it seems like that's a big no no. . .

Hi slicendice73,
It sounds like you've got your head screwed on and haven't fallen for the 'earn £1k a day working for just 15 minutes' BS.

The very consistent advice all newbies will be given on T2W and elsewhere is to open a demo account (almost all brokers offer this facility) and trade virtual money until you're consistently profitable. Don't spend a single penny doing this - there's no need. The mistake many novices make is to be given, say, a £20k account by their broker and risk crazy amounts to double it in a single day. They then see ££££ signs and start to fantasise about Ferraris etc. But this never happens with real money because it's just gambling: the equivalent of walking into a casino and sticking £20k on red (or black). The trick is to trade your demo account exactly as you would trade a live account, and for that you need a trading plan. Developing one that's right for you will take time and require a lot of work. If you click on the link in my signature, it'll give an idea of what you need to do. (It's very old and needs updating - but the basics remain the same.) So, you can start on the journey and you'll either get drawn deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole or you'll get bored and move on, either of which is fine. The point I'm trying to make is I don't want to put you off having a go, just so long as you realise (as you appear to do) that trading's not a get rich quick scheme. Moreover, if your main motivation is to help get your brother out of debt, then there are other (conventional) options which - all other things being equal - are much more likely to generate income and much sooner than trading will.

All the best,
Tim.