Advice on being a Trader (i'm based in Singapore)

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dtraded

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Hi all,

i'm interested in the world of trading and thought it might be a good idea to work with a firm first to do e.g. propriety trading

was wondering is the term 'dealer' = proprietary trading? wish to to know more about the liabilities of a dealer,typical payment structure..etc but couldn't find much info about dealer types online

i currently don't have relevant qualifications or sufficient knowledge, so would appreciate if someone would guide me in the right direction in terms of qualifications & knowledge acquiring. those 1-2 days high end trading semnairs are out of my budget currently. would also appreciate advice of getting the first job in this field. i don't think i'm in a position to choose specifically what kinda instruments i want to trade now so anything goes.

i've started borrowing books and reading as much as i can online as i can but somehow i'm missing important gaps and i don't have any friends doing this so would like to learn from you guys :)

would love to meet any other singaporeans in this forum too since there isn't any active forum in sg about this topic...
 
Last edited:
dtraded said:
Hi all,

i'm interested in the world of trading and thought it might be a good idea to work with a firm first to do e.g. propriety trading

was wondering is the term 'dealer' = proprietary trading? wish to to know more about the liabilities of a dealer,typical payment structure..etc but couldn't find much info about dealer types online

i currently don't have relevant qualifications or sufficient knowledge, so would appreciate if someone would guide me in the right direction in terms of qualifications & knowledge acquiring. those 1-2 days high end trading semnairs are out of my budget currently. would also appreciate advice of getting the first job in this field. i don't think i'm in a position to choose specifically what kinda instruments i want to trade now so anything goes.

i've started borrowing books and reading as much as i can online as i can but somehow i'm missing important gaps and i don't have any friends doing this so would like to learn from you guys :)

would love to meet any other singaporeans in this forum too since there isn't any active forum in sg about this topic...
Click to expand...

This sort of position is highly sought after anywhere, but especially in Singapore. I used to run a desk there, and if I advertised for a dealer, I would get well over 300 applications. I would ignore most of the seminar-style courses there - with one exception they were useless. If you want to be a trader, the best thing to do is get a top degree in maths, or a similarly numerate subject from NUS or SMU. If that's not you, then you could look at getting into broking. Don't head down the remisier route unless you want to schmooze clients for a living, but try to get into the brokers in a back office capacity and work your way to the front office. While doing it, maybe get some pa trading experience - start of with a demo account if you don't have much capital.

Won't be easy, but good luck
 
ns1000 said:
This sort of position is highly sought after anywhere, but especially in Singapore. I used to run a desk there, and if I advertised for a dealer, I would get well over 300 applications. I would ignore most of the seminar-style courses there - with one exception they were useless. If you want to be a trader, the best thing to do is get a top degree in maths, or a similarly numerate subject from NUS or SMU. If that's not you, then you could look at getting into broking. Don't head down the remisier route unless you want to schmooze clients for a living, but try to get into the brokers in a back office capacity and work your way to the front office. While doing it, maybe get some pa trading experience - start of with a demo account if you don't have much capital.

Won't be easy, but good luck
Click to expand...

hi ns1000,

glad to see someone here who knows how it works in sg. hope you can help me in clarifying the terms:

1. the position as a dealer, do i have to place a deposit and use my own money to trade margin? or do i only trade using the insitution's $$$? where can i find out more about the exact responsibilities & risk of being a dealer? (tried to google but didn't get a consistent definition)

2. do you think i should go take the CMFAS module 1A & 6 myself first or should i wait to join a company before taking (hoping they will sponsor me)

3. sorry, but 'pa trading experience = personal assistant trading experience?

4. any other advice you could give.. i can't seem to get a foot into any brokerage firm right now except one back office settlements job. is it a good place to start or too far away?

Thanks
 
First thing to do is decide whether you want to be a trader or a broker. Dealer will generally mean broker, perhaps with some responsibility for executing orders for the firm or for clients. That's the world with which I'm most familiar. To get a dealing job, starting in the back office is as good as anything. You'll learn something about the business at least, and in my book it would put you ahead of fresh graduates after a year or so applying for dealing jobs.

Trading - really hard to break in to. Personal connections help, otherwise apply to grad programs at the likes of DBS. Most important thing is to get some experience in the financial sector. Few companies will let you loose trading their money for a few years - learn the ropes first.

If you have a degree, you may be exempt from some CMFAS modules - 6 is one, but check on teh website. Otherwise 1A and 2 are important and may set you ahead of the field. The most important thing is to stand out from the other 200 applicants.

pa trading is trading your own account. You could open an account with City Index Asia, IG Markets etc and see if you can build up a trading record in your own time. Should be able to trade in pretty small size.

Nick
 
ns1000 said:
First thing to do is decide whether you want to be a trader or a broker. Dealer will generally mean broker, perhaps with some responsibility for executing orders for the firm or for clients. That's the world with which I'm most familiar. To get a dealing job, starting in the back office is as good as anything. You'll learn something about the business at least, and in my book it would put you ahead of fresh graduates after a year or so applying for dealing jobs.

Trading - really hard to break in to. Personal connections help, otherwise apply to grad programs at the likes of DBS. Most important thing is to get some experience in the financial sector. Few companies will let you loose trading their money for a few years - learn the ropes first.

If you have a degree, you may be exempt from some CMFAS modules - 6 is one, but check on teh website. Otherwise 1A and 2 are important and may set you ahead of the field. The most important thing is to stand out from the other 200 applicants.

pa trading is trading your own account. You could open an account with City Index Asia, IG Markets etc and see if you can build up a trading record in your own time. Should be able to trade in pretty small size.

Nick
Click to expand...

Hi Nick,

thank you once again for the reply. i'm interested in trading, not so much of broker. of course with the ultimate goal of being successful in daytrading(years later), thats why i'm seeking good training grounds.

I only have a non-finance related diploma and i'm currently sending resumes for 'trainee dealer' positions cause it seems that i don't see trading assistants jobs so i'll have to get started somewhere related i guess and so far thats the nearest i could find. any better suggestions

thus, i'll have to take CMFAS 1A & 6, but do you suggest i should to take myself now & pay out of my own pocket or is the normal practice for companies to pay their staff to take these modules? i heard that companies will pay for broker's license..etc?
do you need modules 1A & 6 to be a trader too?

i'm not very sure what is the normal practice for paying & taking the modules so i have yet to enrol myself for any modules. pls advice..:smart:
 
If you want to be a 'trader' then I doubt you'd need the CMFAS exams. However, what you should look at is how you're going to make yourself stand out from other applicants in a similar position. Anyone hiring will have hundreds of CVs, and frankly if your diploma is not finance related, you won't fit the stereotype of what they're looking for. Trading jobs in Singapore will generally go to maths / engineering / economics graduates. Taking the modules yourself may help you compete against the graduate clones. Banks don't want to take risks hiring someone who doesn't fit the pattern, so it's up to you to prove you're not a risk. If you need to be employed in a regulated capacity, the bank will pay for your licence.

Further to that, I'd recommend getting any job you can in the back office if you can't get a trading assistants job. Settlements, treasury etc will get you some product exposure, and get you some epxerience of working in a financial trading company. You can always carry on looking.

Good luck
 
ns1000 said:
If you want to be a 'trader' then I doubt you'd need the CMFAS exams. However, what you should look at is how you're going to make yourself stand out from other applicants in a similar position. Anyone hiring will have hundreds of CVs, and frankly if your diploma is not finance related, you won't fit the stereotype of what they're looking for. Trading jobs in Singapore will generally go to maths / engineering / economics graduates. Taking the modules yourself may help you compete against the graduate clones. Banks don't want to take risks hiring someone who doesn't fit the pattern, so it's up to you to prove you're not a risk. If you need to be employed in a regulated capacity, the bank will pay for your licence.

Further to that, I'd recommend getting any job you can in the back office if you can't get a trading assistants job. Settlements, treasury etc will get you some product exposure, and get you some epxerience of working in a financial trading company. You can always carry on looking.

Good luck
Click to expand...

Hi Nick,

thanks alot for helping me these questions. I'm interested in trading positions whereby i don't have to do sales and i get a fixed income. may i know what is the official name for such positions?

I was applying for a few 'Trainee Dealer' positiosn but they seem to all involve some sales. i'll try settlements too.. thanks!

btw, out of curiosity, what kinda position are you holding now? and whats ur job scope like?
 
ns1000 said:
This sort of position is highly sought after anywhere, but especially in Singapore. I used to run a desk there, and if I advertised for a dealer, I would get well over 300 applications. I would ignore most of the seminar-style courses there - with one exception they were useless. If you want to be a trader, the best thing to do is get a top degree in maths, or a similarly numerate subject from NUS or SMU. If that's not you, then you could look at getting into broking. Don't head down the remisier route unless you want to schmooze clients for a living, but try to get into the brokers in a back office capacity and work your way to the front office. While doing it, maybe get some pa trading experience - start of with a demo account if you don't have much capital.

Won't be easy, but good luck
Click to expand...

Hi Nick,

Think I'm taking a long shot opening a four year old thread here but worth a try.
I'm striving to become a trader, but because of obvious conditions I'm broadening my goals and looking towards becoming a broker also.

You said you used to run a desk, I'm currently in my penultimate year of university studying Economics: Money, banking and finance. I came straight from college so I don't have much (any) relevant experience.

I was wondering if you had any advice on things I could do to boost my CV when applying for jobs post uni. What kind of things stood out to you?

Thanks,
Phil.
 
hi Friends

i am keith, a singaporean & i stays in clementi. Looks like we do have some common interests in become a trader. if you have time ,do contact me for coffee. We can chat & share experiences striving as a trader & share views of future career paths. cheers

keith
 
yaksowmi said:
hi Friends

i am keith, a singaporean & i stays in clementi. Looks like we do have some common interests in become a trader. if you have time ,do contact me for coffee. We can chat & share experiences striving as a trader & share views of future career paths. cheers

keith
Click to expand...

Hi Keith, I also have interest to strive to be a full time trader someday. Maybe you can email me at [email protected] ? Thanks and we can remain in contact..
 
Simple answer: You can become a trader by being hired by a bank or a prop trading company. The best way to do that is to send prospective applications to heads of trading desks in your city. That's not too hard. There is one website that explains step by step how to do this. Let me try to find it...

Step by step : Jobs in Finance, Goodbye HR.

Here you go. In each bank, you will find dozens of senior traders that you can write to. Tell them that you want to start your career as a junior trader so you are offering your services to them. Ask them if they are currently expanding their desk (they do not like to reply "no" to this question because it makes them look bad.)

Well anyway, good luck!
 
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