A question to successful spread betters

[SpreadBunny]

I am just starting out and this is a question for successful traders. When I say "successful", I am not talking about how much money you make; I'm talking about people who win most of the time.

Having read some posts here, I understand that if you are too successful (win a lot of times), your account could be closed by a broker. It shouldn't happen but apparently it does. In some cases, broker's explanation for closing an account was that they didn't like a "particular style" of trading!? WTF???

I may lose, I probably lose some but like anyone in this game, I am intending to win a lot if I can. So what do you do to avoid your account from closed down?
Do you have a several accounts and trade from each account on a weekly rotation?

SB

 

[Splitlink]

I am just starting out and this is a question for successful traders. When I say "successful", I am not talking about how much money you make; I'm talking about people who win most of the time.

Having read some posts here, I understand that if you are too successful (win a lot of times), your account could be closed by a broker. It shouldn't happen but apparently it does. In some cases, broker's explanation for closing an account was that they didn't like a "particular style" of trading!? WTF???

I may lose, I probably lose some but like anyone in this game, I am intending to win a lot if I can. So what do you do to avoid your account from closed down?
Do you have a several accounts and trade from each account on a weekly rotation?

SB

My opinion on this is that you are, probably, worrying about something that hasn't happened to you, yet. If you listen too much to negative opinion, you'll end up doing nothing. There are three alternatives to financial trading/betting.

1. Don't do it.

2. If you can afford it, go to a broker.

3. If you don't have the capital to try a broker, try a spreadbetting firm.

I don't think that you will come to any serious damage if you try small stakes with a SB firm. If you get so good that you are asked to take your custom somewhere else, so be it- it's no big deal, is it?

But cross that bridge when you come to it. A lot of people do complain about trading filling times, etc. I'm not a good enough trader to be a menace to the financial security of one of these firms but I aspire to be and so should you!

Split

 

[trader_dante]

I may lose, I probably lose some but like anyone in this game, I am intending to win a lot if I can. So what do you do to avoid your account from closed down?

Avoid latency scalping or very short term trading.

And if you do so, do not ring up and complain about bad fills.

 

[Col_Stiffler]

I am just starting out and this is a question for successful traders. When I say "successful", I am not talking about how much money you make; I'm talking about people who win most of the time.

Having read some posts here, I understand that if you are too successful (win a lot of times), your account could be closed by a broker. It shouldn't happen but apparently it does. In some cases, broker's explanation for closing an account was that they didn't like a "particular style" of trading!? WTF???

I may lose, I probably lose some but like anyone in this game, I am intending to win a lot if I can. So what do you do to avoid your account from closed down?
Do you have a several accounts and trade from each account on a weekly rotation?

SB

Hi,

I'm not necessarily answering this as a 'successful' spread bettor, but I've just finished reading a book called "The Financial Spread Betting Handbook" by Malcolm Pryor, and I would point you in the direction of section 7. "Pricing and Hedging", and in particular the subsection entitled "Do they really want you to win?". The "they" referred to in this heading are the spread betting companies in general. It's a very interesting section and answered a lot of questions that I've had along similar lines over the past couple of years.

Hope this helps and best of luck to you with your trading.

Cheers,

Ian

 

[Trader333]

I am just starting out and this is a question for successful traders. When I say "successful", I am not talking about how much money you make; I'm talking about people who win most of the time.

You can still win most of the time and end up with a net losing balance. It is all about reward to risk ratio against percentage of profitable trades.


Paul

 

[Hoggums]

Spread betting is not yet a mature market - but eventually it will be - which means the number of newcomers will dwindle rapidly. If spread betting firms continually close accounts of those that win then they are not operating a sustainable business model - which I'm sure they are all well aware of.

Having been a losing trader to a now successful trader I personally have not experienced any difference in the way I'm treated by my SB.

As trader_dante says - those that experience account closedowns and disputes are usually the ones that try to profit from comparing an SBs lagging quote with an up to date live feed and profitting from the difference. An SB will stamp down on this behaviour as there is no way for them to hedge against it - it is pure loss to them.

You first target is to be profitable - don't worry about the rest - you can move your money when you are finally making it - which will probably be longer than you think.

 

[omni]

Hi, just wondering which sb firm you are intending to use as some are better than others...........

There are also some that are known for being rubbish - just search there name on this site and you will soon get the idea of sb firms that are not worth getting an account with.

Regards

 

[SpreadBunny]

Thank you very much everyone for sound tips.

I am intending to day trade (about 50 bets per day), not sure if it is classed as scalping as I won't be in and out in seconds or minutes but more like anything from 5 mins to 20 mins. I guess that's called short term trading? Just looking to make £10-£50 profits per bet.

As trader_dante says - those that experience account closedowns and disputes are usually the ones that try to profit from comparing an SBs lagging quote with an up to date live feed and profitting from the difference. An SB will stamp down on this behaviour as there is no way for them to hedge against it - it is pure loss to them.

I am not particularly looking to trade as Hoggums described above but I will be trading throughout the day so if it happens or as and when it happens, if SB is quoting late for whatever reasons, it's no my fault and I'd take my profit if it's there regardless.

SB market may not be mature yet but I bet brokers must be thinking there will always be newbies.

I won't moan for unfilled orders. It seems to happen quite a lot across the board so looks like I'll have to bear with it.

 

[Trader333]

Which instruments are you intending to trade ?
How much capital will you be using to start with ?


Paul

 

[shadowninja]

If you are good enough and doing it for 5 to 20 minutes, then it doesn't matter which company you're with; you can take your skills anywhere. I was originally thinking along the same lines as you but now my longterm goal is to just earn as much as I can. If I do come good then I can use it at a broker or SB company (trading FX).

 

[SpreadBunny]

Which instruments are you intending to trade ?
How much capital will you be using to start with ?

I am thinking along the line of indices or equity but specialising in one or two to start with and not open so many trades at one time. It may be too early to say but I amazed myself how much I can make by just longing and shorting under £50 per trade all day long. Yeah, eventually when I have more seed capital, I'd like to minimize the number of trades and sit for longer. But short term trades /small stakes makes it less risky for now. When I make profit I just run with it rather than leaving it too long.

 

[Trader333]

Have you placed any actual trades yet or have you been paper trading ?


Paul

 

[shadowninja]

But short term trades /small stakes makes it less risky for now.

I am not sure this statement is accurate. I'm sure the more experienced traders will verify. My personal experience is that the longterm approach is easier to reap better rewards. Out of interest, have you tested your methodology in, say, Tradindex? £20k play money; you can see how your method works when it has a spread to deal with.

 

[SpreadBunny]

I've traded with a demo account and I have already experienced re-quotes, unfilled orders, rejected exit orders and 50pts profit I couldn't get out because of delayed quotes etc. What can you do? You just have to live with it.

 

[Trader333]

It depends on the price you get filled at on a demo compared to what happens in the real world. If you are able to make a lot of intra-day trades, (you stated 50 +), and make a net profit using a spreadbetting company then you are in a very small minority of people who can and I wish you every success.


Paul

 

[SpreadBunny]

I was told that the demo and real account quotes are the same. Their price was more or less the same with other sb firms. I just watch out for breakouts, reversals and take advantage of long or short and come out before too long.

My first day trading was £140 loss; that was the day FTSE experienced the data feed problem and I was trying to figure out the platform as well. On my second day, I must have done about 100pts and I could have done more but I got tired so I quit.

 

[fibonelli]

I've traded with a demo account and I have already experienced re-quotes, unfilled orders, rejected exit orders and 50pts profit I couldn't get out because of delayed quotes etc. What can you do? You just have to live with it.

hey spreadbunny, you could listen to this very apt and superb tune!

The OJ's - Back Stabbers

 

[shadowninja]

Certainly impressive. The most I've managed is about 20-25 trades in a day and I was a bundle of nerves. It just wasn't worth the effort for the money I was willing to risk. And the software wasn't quick enough to give me confidence. (This post sounds sarcastic but it isn't meant to be. )

 

[Splitlink]

It depends on the price you get filled at on a demo compared to what happens in the real world. If you are able to make a lot of intra-day trades, (you stated 50 +), and make a net profit using a spreadbetting company then you are in a very small minority of people who can and I wish you every success.


Paul

Surely, that applies, equally, to all broker clients, as well. The great majority of small traders fail and, I would suggest, much more quickly, because of the large capital expenditure required.

I tell you now, that I can handle a two point spread on an index trade. If anyone can't do that, then they are not yet successful traders and should, certainly, not be trading with a broker.

Therefore, all new entrants to this business should start with SB firms and they should be absolutely honest with themselves. The question must be. Did I, really, lose money on that trade because of them, or because of my lack of trading ability?

Split

 

[Trader333]

I agree and the only issue was could this still be done 50 times a day trading indices and still make an overall profit ? Most people I know who trade indices don't take anything like 50 trades a day and it is more like 3 to 5.


Paul