SB Complaints

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ns1000

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All too often there are posts complaining that someone has been shafted by a spread betting company, saying that they're just putting their case together and will take it all the way to the House of Lords and bring the industry to its knees etc etc.

Normally these go quiet after a month. Just wondering whether this is because the SB settles out ouf court to avoid its dodgy tricks being made public and being closed down as a result, or because there is in fact no case for them to answer.

Has anyone actually taken a case to court?
 
ns1000 said:
Just wondering whether this is because the SB settles out ouf court to avoid its dodgy tricks being made public and being closed down as a result, or because there is in fact no case for them to answer.
Click to expand...

For 99% I think the answer is (b).

Usually it's a disgruntled newbie who was overleveraged, bet the account on one trade and got caught out by a gap overnight.

Or

Someone profits from the fact there's a small delay in quotes from SBs and complains it's unfair when the SB puts them on dealer intervention. (despite the fact they were fleecing the SB in the first place).
 
I've had two cases against firms in just over eight years of spreadbetting. Both were based on the firms (two different firms) failure to correctly follow the T&C's. At first both firms refused to move on the issue. However, once the firms realised that I was serious about taking the matters forward (externally) they settled in full. Needless to say they both specified that it was "a gesture of goodwill" rather than "an acknowledgement of wrong doing".

In my opinion a firm would be crazy to let a client take a matter to court - in such a situation the firm would be exposed to all sorts of potential pitfalls such as Unfair Contracts + Consumer Contract Law - this doesnt fit in with most firms T&C where the firm seeks to bias the Customer Agreement in their favour.

Steve.
 
I had issue with CMC I believe my case is tight, however I have been occupied on other more pressing matters.

I may resume my Case later next year when things are not as hectic as they are. Your general observations are very limited. How about some more:

1. The Client would not have enough funds to follow through with the Legal Case.

2. The Client do'esnt have enough time on their hands to prepare the Case.

3. The Client decided to trade through a more reliable and regulated medium.

4. The Client is continuing with making a case and is gathering more evidence and other interested parties to make a joint case.
 
Here is an example of how most spread betting complaints go

Here is an example of two different spread betting complaints I have made to ETX recently. First, the one with with no merit:

ETX Capital said:
Dear Sir,

We refer to your Wall Street daily cash trades this morning. There was a problem with our pricing feeds this morning which resulted in the Wall Street daily cash being wrongly priced. The trades you made on those prices are therefore considered null and void and the profits made, £9,162 will be deducted from your account (in accordance with our Terms and Conditions).

We regret any inconvenience this may have caused you.


ETX Capital
Click to expand...

arabianights said:
Hi

As far as I can see the market was Wall Street cash which isn't traded
on any exchange (except synthetically from NYSE open). I can't really
understand where the pricing feed comes in as this is an unregulated
market where you provide quotes that I am free to trade off in good
faith. I am not sure you are treating me fairly here!

Best

arabianights
Click to expand...
ETX Capital said:
Dear Sir,

Thank you for your reply.

The Wall Street daily cash market is a fair value market based on the underlying future. We are able to quote this in the morning as the future is open during that period. As there was no corresponding movement in the underlying futures market there was obviously an error in the pricing. Everything we do is regulated by the FSA and as such we are able to provide these prices for you. Had you lost money by trading these prices we would refund that money without hesitation so we are treating you as fairly as possible.

I trust this clarifies the position.

Kind regards


ETX Capital
Click to expand...
arabianights said:
Sir/Madam,

It is neither my business nor my concern where you derive the price
for cash Dow as the market does not exist then! Since front month Dow
is now March (and essentially was March this morning in terms of what
people were trading) there is no way that fair value can be
ascertained to within 10,20 or even 40 ticks; inevitably doing so
requires taking a view on the yield curve and dividend yield which is
necessarily woolly... therefore the prices which you quoted to me this
morning seemed reasonable enough to me - attempting to bust these
trades seems more like sour grapes than anything else.

Best

arabianights
Click to expand...
ETX Capital said:
Dear Sir,

Thank you for your reply.

The error on the pricing feed was that the underlying market was switching from December to March on each print. This is nothing to do with fair value calculations it is to do with an obvious error in the prices which you traded on. The sum of £9,162 which you accumulated by trading on these incorrect prices has been removed from your account.

Regards



ETX Capital
Click to expand...

ETX give all clients a £15 Christmas gift

arabianights said:
I will give up on this due to your kind Christmas gift, although I
remain convinced I am entirely in the right. Indeed I thought I was
doing you a service by balancing your book, my interpretation of the
price movements being that they were those of a distressed market maker.
Click to expand...

Secondly, the one with merit:
arabianights said:
I attempted to sell GM on the opening today
and have instead managed to sell it at yesterday's closing price -
please could you amend the opening price of the bet (but leave it
open) with a 20 tick stop
Click to expand...

And a response within half an hour:

ETX Capital said:
the GM trade has been deleted, we reopened it at 440, being the mid-price on the open so you have paid no spread. The stop not working on your initial trade is a problem that we have now rectified.
Click to expand...

So sensible and polite responses to spurious complaints, and quick action on a genuine problem, for me so far...
 
arabianights said:
Here is an example of two different spread betting complaints I have made to ETX recently. First, the one with with no merit:








ETX give all clients a £15 Christmas gift



Secondly, the one with merit:


And a response within half an hour:



So sensible and polite responses to spurious complaints, and quick action on a genuine problem, for me so far...
Click to expand...

Thats all well and good but take a more 'technical' case and see how you get on!

Check out this link for starters;

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/spread-betting/43996-feeling-ripped-off-ig-index.html

In this case the SB firm have made a cash adjustment to a clients position - The firm claims that the T&Cs allow them to do this - The firm has written to the client outlining the particular T&Cs which it claims they can invoke - Further investigation shows that the firm cannot meet the criteria of the T&Cs which it openly quotes in the letter sent to its client and therefore cannot make such an 'adjustment'.

This has all been pointed out to the firm according to the client yet the firm has not reversed the adjustment. The client appears to state that the firm "will not budge on the issue".

Is this reasonable?

Steve.
 
GammaJammer said:
But Arabian - maybe the fact that you pressed the point so far with respect to your first issue (even when you knew it was really spurious) will mean that they have you on file as a pickoff merchant in the future and will treat you differently. I wonder whether in the long run this kind of thing is worth it. Karma and all that....

GJ
Click to expand...

Dunno if invoking karma is fair here GJ.. I was obviously taking the **** ;)

If I leave orders in the real market I can't cancel them under almost any circumstances :( Can't see why spread betting companies should be different... or is this all market makers sticking together :p

Anyhow on the basis of your advice in this thread, just sent this off to another SB company purely on my week end account statement:

arabianights said:
Hi,

I quite appreciate having over quadrupled my account but in the
interests of honesty not sure if it makes any sense at all :)

However if this is par for the course please allow the facility to
close over the weekend :D

Cheers
Click to expand...
 
I hade some small issues.. with IG.. first was a future expiry which was displayed incorrectly on their website.. and the roll over come as a surprise.. finally they decided.. to rollover without charge of any opening spread
 
second was a dutch share, where on dividend issues, i got rollovered in way disadvantage..
and got even stopped out, due to their price action..

actually this was way trickier to solve.. and caused me many mails to get it fixed..
finally they decided to pay back the loss.. and reopened the bet.. also they made "a calculation"
error.. and they finally did admit it.
not many time later, the stock surged in my advantage.

what i can remember, there was an incorrect stopping out of oil future .. which was solved..after a telephone call.
 
a " trick " which was eventually presented as a change.. in stopped-out policy..

earlier they used the mid-price.. for stoplosses.. in current time they use
the BUY and SELL quotes.. for example if platinum quotes buy -sell 900 - 910
then a stoploss of 900.5 is hit.. while the real price is 905.

especially overnight, but on some futures. they use WIDENING IN BUY SELL
so overnight platinum while you are in your sweetenest dreams can be quotened 890 - 918
 
but.. i dont feel to be robbed.... as i am still with them.. after couple of years..

have great weekend lads
 
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