£2400 down and counting...

C

charlesD

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Hello,

New here,

Opened an account with Cityindex back in May 2012,

I've put in a total of £2500, and currently have only £120 left!!!

But I'm not ready to give up just yet...

For anyone thinking of starting out my advice is to make sure you can afford to lose the money, and be prepared to lose it because you probably will...

One thing I have noticed though, is that over half of my total losses have been taken in the form of the commission from the spread! So for a 50p a pip bet with average spreads of 3 pips, even if you in reality break even after 100 trades you're down £150!

And what have I learned from this? I can see what my sins are which I'm still trying to tame and that is the gambling mentality of trying to win back your losses by jumping back into the trade almost immediately, resulting in more losses. The worst is doing this and changing the direction of your bet! This is one sin I'm trying to control!

I've also noticed overtrading is a bad thing, On my worst days I was entering and exiting trades over 10 times in the space of a day! just more commission to the broker.

I would like to hear of other people who've lost more money than me because that'll make me feel better and less of an idiot! lol.

I'm currently in the Dow30, bought at 14981 Friday, and have a stop loss placed at 14964. I am expecting a deal to be made by the Republicans over the weekend and hopefully it might open 100 pips higher than Friday's close. Before it opens I will trail the stop to break even. This is the best case scenario and if it does open higher after a deal, I expect this to be the catalyst to take the Dow to 16000 over the next few weeks, and I will try to stay in trailing my stops upto this level.

The other scenario is no deal is made, and the Dow opens lower and triggers my stop taking me out of the trade.

I also held the Dow over last weekend and it opened about 70 pips lower than the Friday close and I was stopped out way past my stop level, for quite a big loss.
Hopefully it'll open higher this week! Let's wait and see...
 
You're right to think that most people lose money when they start, but there's no need to lose so much. Use minimal stakes and at least then you can make the same mistakes often enough to learn what you're doing wrong.

Your post illustrates that you still have a punting mentality that will probably end in tears. Maybe there will be some good news from the US over the weekend, and the Dow will gap up hugely, but what if the opposite happens and it goes through your stop loss? Account blown? Might it not have been more sensible to pocket your profit instead of gambling?

I'm currently in the Dow30, bought at 14981 Friday, and have a stop loss placed at 14964. I am expecting a deal to be made by the Republicans over the weekend and hopefully it might open 100 pips higher than Friday's close. Before it opens I will trail the stop to break even. This is the best case scenario and if it does open higher after a deal, I expect this to be the catalyst to take the Dow to 16000 over the next few weeks, and I will try to stay in trailing my stops upto this level.

The other scenario is no deal is made, and the Dow opens lower and triggers my stop taking me out of the trade.
 
charlesD said:
Hello,

New here,

Opened an account with Cityindex back in May 2012,

I've put in a total of £2500, and currently have only £120 left!!!

But I'm not ready to give up just yet...

For anyone thinking of starting out my advice is to make sure you can afford to lose the money, and be prepared to lose it because you probably will...

One thing I have noticed though, is that over half of my total losses have been taken in the form of the commission from the spread! So for a 50p a pip bet with average spreads of 3 pips, even if you in reality break even after 100 trades you're down £150!

And what have I learned from this? I can see what my sins are which I'm still trying to tame and that is the gambling mentality of trying to win back your losses by jumping back into the trade almost immediately, resulting in more losses. The worst is doing this and changing the direction of your bet! This is one sin I'm trying to control!

I've also noticed overtrading is a bad thing, On my worst days I was entering and exiting trades over 10 times in the space of a day! just more commission to the broker.

I would like to hear of other people who've lost more money than me because that'll make me feel better and less of an idiot! lol.

I'm currently in the Dow30, bought at 14981 Friday, and have a stop loss placed at 14964. I am expecting a deal to be made by the Republicans over the weekend and hopefully it might open 100 pips higher than Friday's close. Before it opens I will trail the stop to break even. This is the best case scenario and if it does open higher after a deal, I expect this to be the catalyst to take the Dow to 16000 over the next few weeks, and I will try to stay in trailing my stops upto this level.

The other scenario is no deal is made, and the Dow opens lower and triggers my stop taking me out of the trade.

I also held the Dow over last weekend and it opened about 70 pips lower than the Friday close and I was stopped out way past my stop level, for quite a big loss.
Hopefully it'll open higher this week! Let's wait and see...
Click to expand...

To give yourself a chance I would trade futures on a 1 lot then at least you will have price transparency, volume info and a 1 tick spread. Dow futures are thin so I would look at eurostoxx, 10 euros a tick on a 1 lot.
 
charlesD said:
I would like to hear of other people who've lost more money than me because that'll make me feel better and less of an idiot! lol.

I'm currently in the Dow30, bought at 14981 Friday, and have a stop loss placed at 14964. I am expecting a deal to be made by the Republicans over the weekend and hopefully it might open 100 pips higher than Friday's close. Before it opens I will trail the stop to break even. This is the best case scenario and if it does open higher after a deal, I expect this to be the catalyst to take the Dow to 16000 over the next few weeks, and I will try to stay in trailing my stops upto this level.

The other scenario is no deal is made, and the Dow opens lower and triggers my stop taking me out of the trade.
Click to expand...

Hey Charles, if it makes you feel any better, I have lost considerably more than that. That's just the accounts being blown, not counting the inevitable courses that have been spent over time, the "managed" accounts where i let other people lose it for me...like i wasn't good enough to lose it myself, I let others in on the act!
It did change though, but for me it was finding a system, testing it etc and failing and moving on blah blah blah and not having found any belief in a system that statistically gave me a fighting chance.
Of course you don't need to do the same, but its this last paragraph of yours where you are long the dow in the "anticipation" (lets call it hope) of a deal.
So even though you have lost 2400 the way in which you are approaching the next trade means there is little you have done to give yourself that fighting chance.

Put more in, or trade a demo but this time find your edge. Its not in hope and expectations of deals being made (this is just experience, nothing more, so dont take it personally)
find yourself a system or approach to trading that statistically you could go back in time and say, I traded this setup because... etc. That would be a starting point, one in which I went down.

Eventually, having decided that I was only going to risk £100 as statistically my system shouldn't have allowed me to lose it (which means i knew that my system wasn't worth sh1t if i did lose it..which is a great lesson Charles) did I then double that £100..and then doubled that again and again. all over time of course it wasn't a case of turning 5k into 5m it was slowly realising "I have something at last"

Then you stop losing, and start winning and you begin to learn and see much more than you ever could before. It takes time, but you can do it Charles, and I wish you the very best in the process
 
Vasco da Banana said:
You're right to think that most people lose money when they start, but there's no need to lose so much. Use minimal stakes and at least then you can make the same mistakes often enough to learn what you're doing wrong.
Click to expand...

Hello Vasco,

I did not put all £2500 in one go, but in lots of £100, £200, £300 etc. The most I've probably had in my account in one go is about £300, and when that dwindles down to about £50 I top up again! I also bet minimum stakes, we talking like £0.33, £0.40, £0.50 stakes.
 
charlesD said:
Hello,

New here,

Opened an account with Cityindex back in May 2012,

I've put in a total of £2500, and currently have only £120 left!!!

But I'm not ready to give up just yet...

For anyone thinking of starting out my advice is to make sure you can afford to lose the money, and be prepared to lose it because you probably will...

One thing I have noticed though, is that over half of my total losses have been taken in the form of the commission from the spread! So for a 50p a pip bet with average spreads of 3 pips, even if you in reality break even after 100 trades you're down £150!

And what have I learned from this? I can see what my sins are which I'm still trying to tame and that is the gambling mentality of trying to win back your losses by jumping back into the trade almost immediately, resulting in more losses. The worst is doing this and changing the direction of your bet! This is one sin I'm trying to control!

I've also noticed overtrading is a bad thing, On my worst days I was entering and exiting trades over 10 times in the space of a day! just more commission to the broker.

I would like to hear of other people who've lost more money than me because that'll make me feel better and less of an idiot! lol.

I'm currently in the Dow30, bought at 14981 Friday, and have a stop loss placed at 14964. I am expecting a deal to be made by the Republicans over the weekend and hopefully it might open 100 pips higher than Friday's close. Before it opens I will trail the stop to break even. This is the best case scenario and if it does open higher after a deal, I expect this to be the catalyst to take the Dow to 16000 over the next few weeks, and I will try to stay in trailing my stops upto this level.

The other scenario is no deal is made, and the Dow opens lower and triggers my stop taking me out of the trade.

I also held the Dow over last weekend and it opened about 70 pips lower than the Friday close and I was stopped out way past my stop level, for quite a big loss.
Hopefully it'll open higher this week! Let's wait and see...
Click to expand...

Don't give up--go to a SB that trades 50 pence per point and trade breakouts until you get it right.

I've lost more than you and it is unfortunate that new guys believe that a lot of cash will do better with low spread, low cost brokers. I was with a broker with 10 quid minimum You would be surprised how quickly the money goes! It's not that they are dishonest--although, they might be-- the real reason is that you do not know how to trade, yet. That will come. but not without pain and, believe me. 50 pence per point is where the least pain is. Never mind the more attractive spreads. The main thing is that you are sure that you are trading in the right direction.

I do not believe that SB brokers have to be bent to survive. They can be as honest as anyone and can make money in the knowledge that most of their clients do not have a clue.

Sorry, New Guys, but I was new, once!
 
malaguti said:
Hey Charles, if it makes you feel any better, I have lost considerably more than that. That's just the accounts being blown, not counting the inevitable courses that have been spent over time, the "managed" accounts where i let other people lose it for me...like i wasn't good enough to lose it myself, I let others in on the act!
It did change though, but for me it was finding a system, testing it etc and failing and moving on blah blah blah and not having found any belief in a system that statistically gave me a fighting chance.
Of course you don't need to do the same, but its this last paragraph of yours where you are long the dow in the "anticipation" (lets call it hope) of a deal.
So even though you have lost 2400 the way in which you are approaching the next trade means there is little you have done to give yourself that fighting chance.

Put more in, or trade a demo but this time find your edge. Its not in hope and expectations of deals being made (this is just experience, nothing more, so dont take it personally)
find yourself a system or approach to trading that statistically you could go back in time and say, I traded this setup because... etc. That would be a starting point, one in which I went down.

Eventually, having decided that I was only going to risk £100 as statistically my system shouldn't have allowed me to lose it (which means i knew that my system wasn't worth sh1t if i did lose it..which is a great lesson Charles) did I then double that £100..and then doubled that again and again. all over time of course it wasn't a case of turning 5k into 5m it was slowly realising "I have something at last"

Then you stop losing, and start winning and you begin to learn and see much more than you ever could before. It takes time, but you can do it Charles, and I wish you the very best in the process
Click to expand...

Hello,

I'm sorry to hear about your loss Malaguti, I also attended one of the free inductions to sign up for a spreadbetting course with so called 'experts', after sitting through a 1 hour presentation they wanted £5500 for this mentoring course where professionals teach you 'how to do it'. Of course this was way more than I could afford, so I didn't sign up with them. I would've blown more money before even placing a trade! I believe that whatever they can teach you, you can get all the same information for free on the Internet and speaking to other people like on this forum here.

As for finding a system, my current strategy is to try and get locked into a trend and stay in as long as possible trailing my stops along the way. The longest I've stayed in a trade is currently about 3 and a half weeks before being stopped out. But as it seems to take a zillion attempts to successfully enter and stay in a trend, the losses have outsized the wins. Maybe I am overtrading?

I usually set stops about 10 pips which is probably too low and why I keep getting stopped out, but if I set it at 20 pips this isn't much better because usually if it goes down 10 it'll go down 20 and you just lose money at double the pace. Setting it at 30 usually lets me stay in a trade longer, but these usually end up being triggered as well. Stops less than 30 can work in a strong up or down trend, but I have found are disastrous when caught in a sideways market which is 'most of the time'. I suppose it's just being patient for that big up or down movement, but I increasingly become impatient in this game and enter trades impulsively, which is another sin I have to control.
 
charlesD said:
Hello Vasco,

I did not put all £2500 in one go, but in lots of £100, £200, £300 etc. The most I've probably had in my account in one go is about £300, and when that dwindles down to about £50 I top up again! I also bet minimum stakes, we talking like £0.33, £0.40, £0.50 stakes.
Click to expand...

Hi cD

Whether you put the lot in or drip fed the account to cover losses (which must have created margin problems), you don't appear to have a workable plan.Why not have a complete re-think and then go back to a demo account to see how it pans out? But don't cheat, as that will make your efforts worthless when you go live again! :)
 
charlesD said:
Hello,

New here,

Opened an account with Cityindex back in May 2012,

I've put in a total of £2500, and currently have only £120 left!!!

But I'm not ready to give up just yet...

For anyone thinking of starting out my advice is to make sure you can afford to lose the money, and be prepared to lose it because you probably will...

One thing I have noticed though, is that over half of my total losses have been taken in the form of the commission from the spread! So for a 50p a pip bet with average spreads of 3 pips, even if you in reality break even after 100 trades you're down £150!

And what have I learned from this? I can see what my sins are which I'm still trying to tame and that is the gambling mentality of trying to win back your losses by jumping back into the trade almost immediately, resulting in more losses. The worst is doing this and changing the direction of your bet! This is one sin I'm trying to control!

I've also noticed overtrading is a bad thing, On my worst days I was entering and exiting trades over 10 times in the space of a day! just more commission to the broker.

I would like to hear of other people who've lost more money than me because that'll make me feel better and less of an idiot! lol.

I'm currently in the Dow30, bought at 14981 Friday, and have a stop loss placed at 14964. I am expecting a deal to be made by the Republicans over the weekend and hopefully it might open 100 pips higher than Friday's close. Before it opens I will trail the stop to break even. This is the best case scenario and if it does open higher after a deal, I expect this to be the catalyst to take the Dow to 16000 over the next few weeks, and I will try to stay in trailing my stops upto this level.

The other scenario is no deal is made, and the Dow opens lower and triggers my stop taking me out of the trade.

I also held the Dow over last weekend and it opened about 70 pips lower than the Friday close and I was stopped out way past my stop level, for quite a big loss.
Hopefully it'll open higher this week! Let's wait and see...
Click to expand...

No offence but all you are doing is gambling. You say you thought the Republicans would do a deal over the weekend, I thought Spurs would beat West Ham, we were both wrong, thankfully I don't gamble so no harm done.
 
pboyles said:
No offence but all you are doing is gambling. You say you thought the Republicans would do a deal over the weekend, I thought Spurs would beat West Ham, we were both wrong, thankfully I don't gamble so no harm done.
Click to expand...

I thought Norwich would beat Chelsea.:LOL:
 

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got stopped out 9 pips above my entry price! --> might go down to 14500 now...wait a big longer for another entry point...also looking to short GBP/USD or long Corn ... any sound good to you?
 
charlesD said:
got stopped out 9 pips above my entry price! --> might go down to 14500 now...wait a big longer for another entry point...also looking to short GBP/USD or long Corn ... any sound good to you?
Click to expand...


So you threw away your Dow profit? Still, if you think it's now going to 14500, why aren't your short? Like PB said, you're just gambling.
 
Vasco da Banana said:
So you threw away your Dow profit? Still, if you think it's now going to 14500, why aren't your short? Like PB said, you're just gambling.
Click to expand...

gambling? so what're you doing? every trade's a gamble unless your george soros...unfortunately unlike him I do not have information about an upcoming government policy that will have a major impact on the direction of a currency...

as for taking profits, the right place to sell is one i find increasingly difficult to time right, so I prefer to trail my stops to support levels...I trailed my stop to just below 15000 which I thought would act as support, but it failed...! In fact I would be more annoyed if I sold and watched it go higher than it hitting my stop and going lower...!
 
bustech said:
I thought Norwich would beat Chelsea.:LOL:
Click to expand...

I wished,but it was not to be. Anyway, Mourinho wanted to be "loved" , he said, and the Spanish didn't "love" him! In fact, they all seemed to be glad to get rid of him.

I hope that you have better luck.
 
charlesD said:
gambling? so what're you doing? every trade's a gamble unless your george soros...unfortunately unlike him I do not have information about an upcoming government policy that will have a major impact on the direction of a currency...

as for taking profits, the right place to sell is one i find increasingly difficult to time right, so I prefer to trail my stops to support levels...I trailed my stop to just below 15000 which I thought would act as support, but it failed...! In fact I would be more annoyed if I sold and watched it go higher than it hitting my stop and going lower...!
Click to expand...

You asked for advice and people gave it based on what they see as your weakness, you then make a post criticizing their response to you about gambling. Isn't that a gamblers first problem.... denial? ;)
 
jusses have I just agreed with pboyles.

Everything in life may be a gamble but there is a difference between a sucker play and an educated one.
 
charlesD said:
gambling? so what're you doing? every trade's a gamble unless your george soros...unfortunately unlike him I do not have information about an upcoming government policy that will have a major impact on the direction of a currency...

as for taking profits, the right place to sell is one i find increasingly difficult to time right, so I prefer to trail my stops to support levels...I trailed my stop to just below 15000 which I thought would act as support, but it failed...! In fact I would be more annoyed if I sold and watched it go higher than it hitting my stop and going lower...!
Click to expand...


Each trade might be a gamble, but hopefully the sum of all the trades you make will be rooted in something known to give an edge. Otherwise, the odds are against you and sooner or later you'll lose.
 
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