Traders Block

Can anyone help? I have once again entered into this line of making money. I came out of it 2 years ago after losing a lot of money, following advice from so called experts, giving me advice on which software to buy etc… it seems that every time I entered into a trade, the market moved away from me, losing more money.

Every now and then I had a winning trade, but after 6 months solid, I just gave up. Now this time I have once again come back, a bigger trading bank, I think a better trading strategy, and the determination to win. I have paper traded for 90 days, and guess what? Yep I won, 80% of the trades, using TS, no software just gut instinct.

But here it comes, every time I go to play with real money, I freeze, can anyone help.

sid392 said:

......But here it comes, every time I go to play with real money, I freeze, can anyone help.

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nothing wrong with your technical abilities, gut feeling etc.....

it is in your head mate. what happens to u is what hap's to loads of chaps in night clubs who just cannot come up to the tottie they fancy.... c those ppl every night I go out.....

let me guess - sorry no offence - once u r in a trade u get this rather nasty feeling of sweating palms? and when it goes against u - u just can't cut the loss, it is your baby, U R SURE U R RIGHT so u bugger off for a fag KNOWING u'll break even when u come back? only to discover 5 times more losses?

I was like that when i started - i am not ashamed to admit it. I was lucky i had a very nice guv who just kept on telling me "keep on punting, u r a good lad and it is not your money - learn while u have a chance". The only thing he was adamant about was this - I will not sack u on a 10K quid loss in 10 trades where u quickly cut your losses - that just means we do not know something about the stock that others do - BUT I will sack u on a 5K loss in one trade where u obviously let your losses run.

I wud say it took me 3-4 months to get to the point where in and out became quite automated with no sweating palms involved. A bit like in sh*gging (sorry this is the best analogy) - u dont exactly sweat about getting in and out do u?

AFTER THAT - it is just a matter of refining your techniques - meaning trading on better ODDS.

REMEMBER WE DO NOT TRADE ES OR CL OR ABRACADABRA STOCK - WE TRADE ODDS!

I didn't quite have the same problem, but I did have a difficulty in my head that kept me loosing money.

The way I fixed it may also help you.

I worked out how little I needed to make. I was earning a wage, so my bills were paid, but If I was to trade, it needed to pay for itself. So I added all my monthly trading costs up, there were not too many, software and data feed then divide that by 20 (approx trading days in the week) and that gave me a figure. I added a few dollars profit on and decided that the least I needed to make was $10 a day.

When your profit target is only $10 a day, the pressure is just about completely gone. You are not under pressure to make the big killer trades.

When you hit your profit target - stop trading for the day. Watch the screen, paper trade if you wish, but you can be comfortable in knowing that you have hit your profit target and are in profit

Of course, if a trade makes your target and is still moving - keep in the trade. Protect your profit with a stop so there is no pressure on you, and trade out the rest of the move. If you do this and make more than your profit target a few days - great. You know then that you can afford a few days loss and still be within your monthly target.

But trading for a $10 daily target really takes the pressure off

After a month of hitting your target - increase it. Don't increase it to $1000 a day or anything like that, just a bit more and still where you feel there is not any pressure on you to make your new target.

It worked for me.

Well thanks guys, today I sat down with your points in mind, I know my market, I know my limits, so with fag in hand and coffee on desk I placed my trade to sell US Crude(Feb). By 3.30 I closed my trade off with £1780.00 in profit. - not bad for a £10 bet. Well my heart was in my mouth, and no woman could give me that much pleasure or rush.....lol

so it's here we go, I know it's a good start but i was only in it for £100 but just let it run, well thank you IG and a merry Xmas......

Nice Christmas Present

sid392 said:

Well thanks guys, today I sat down with your points in mind, I know my market, I know my limits, so with fag in hand and coffee on desk I placed my trade to sell US Crude(Feb). By 3.30 I closed my trade off with £1780.00 in profit. - not bad for a £10 bet. Well my heart was in my mouth, and no woman could give me that much pleasure or rush.....lol

so it's here we go, I know it's a good start but i was only in it for £100 but just let it run, well thank you IG and a merry Xmas......

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u trade crude mate? welcome to the club! may i ask u did u get an account at NYMEX and if so how much did u pay for the seat? pls pm me if u think it's more appropriate.

on a joking note - so u r saying that NO woman is worth more that 1780 quid? not even Naomi or Beyonce? good to know mate....

china white said:

u trade crude mate? welcome to the club! may i ask u did u get an account at NYMEX and if so how much did u pay for the seat?

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China, I think Sid mentioned he is SBing with IG Index.

Another suggestion(similar to Ardhill's):
Trade with a lot of money in your account, be reasonably sure of the market, and trade small...small enough that a larger than expected correction in the market wouldn't even make you blink. (I used the word "reasonably sure" because there is no such thing as "absolutely sure".)

At the present time I am staying small with a max of £10 per point. My bank is a £10k base, giving a 10% max loss at any time. I am using stops to try to max out my profit, and using buy & sell limit orders for the tech stuff, I am still trading by gut feeling, cos looking at charts is over my head. I understand HLOC etc... but i think the best feeling for a market is in the gut. I can only get it wrong 50% of the time lol...

You should learn some basic chart patterns, but mostly, simply draw lines. Patterns and lines work very well together. Take a look at this: (I posted this same link just a few minutes ago in another thread. )
http://www.moneymax.co.za/articles/displayarticlewide.asp?ArticleID=275658

sid392 said:

I can only get it wrong 50% of the time lol...

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If you're trading a totally discretionary system based on instinct/gut feeling there is a possibility you could end up being a lot more wrong than that.

And IMVHO risking 10% of your boodle per trade has some significant risk associated with it. I started out like that...a few times...

Also, keep in mind that it is December. Not sure how the holiday trading has been in Crude but there are a few markets that are just a waste of time to trade right now (ie. ES and NQ) Perhaps it is best if you take off till January and start up then. Grats on the 1780 though.

Ziggie

Ardhill Your advice to another member

Do you know this is the best advice I have seen for a long time

china white said:

nothing wrong with your technical abilities, gut feeling etc.....

it is in your head mate. what happens to u is what hap's to loads of chaps in night clubs who just cannot come up to the tottie they fancy.... c those ppl every night I go out.....

let me guess - sorry no offence - once u r in a trade u get this rather nasty feeling of sweating palms? and when it goes against u - u just can't cut the loss, it is your baby, U R SURE U R RIGHT so u bugger off for a fag KNOWING u'll break even when u come back? only to discover 5 times more losses?

I was like that when i started - i am not ashamed to admit it. I was lucky i had a very nice guv who just kept on telling me "keep on punting, u r a good lad and it is not your money - learn while u have a chance". The only thing he was adamant about was this - I will not sack u on a 10K quid loss in 10 trades where u quickly cut your losses - that just means we do not know something about the stock that others do - BUT I will sack u on a 5K loss in one trade where u obviously let your losses run.

I wud say it took me 3-4 months to get to the point where in and out became quite automated with no sweating palms involved. A bit like in sh*gging (sorry this is the best analogy) - u dont exactly sweat about getting in and out do u?

AFTER THAT - it is just a matter of refining your techniques - meaning trading on better ODDS.

REMEMBER WE DO NOT TRADE ES OR CL OR ABRACADABRA STOCK - WE TRADE ODDS!

Click to expand...

OMG ,China, that post really cracked me up. Entertaining too. Thanks.

James

TheBramble said:

If you're trading a totally discretionary system based on instinct/gut feeling there is a possibility you could end up being a lot more wrong than that.

And IMVHO risking 10% of your boodle per trade has some significant risk associated with it. I started out like that...a few times...

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I totally agree with this. First of all, risking 10% per trade is INSANE - unless you're just f***ing around with a small account that you wouldn't care about in the event you blew it up(sometimes this is fun to do, especially with FX, providing you have the $ to burn ).
Secondly, I think trading based soley upon intuition or "gut feeling" is very physcologically taxing and extremely difficult to cope with emotionally. Personally, when I tried to trade using that style, I found myself doubting my logic/decisions after a string of losses. One bad thing leads to another, and next thing you know, you're like WTF have I done to my account today?...
Anyway, I believe discretion is important ingredient in any trading technique/strategy, but it should be limited. Of course you may be very apt to this type of trading, but I feel it inherently carries a higher degree of risk.

James

China,
Question. What does "bugger off for a fag" mean? Here in the states a "fag" is a derogatory name for a homosexual. Instinctively, your one liner had me rolling on the floor.

d-

des44 said:

China,
Question. What does "bugger off for a fag" mean? Here in the states a "fag" is a derogatory name for a homosexual. Instinctively, your one liner had me rolling on the floor.

d-

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LOL, when I read that I thought the same thing too at first (I'm American), until my brain translated it a few seconds later.
He means he "went to go have a cigarette". A "fag" is slang for a "cigarette" in the UK and some other places.
In American slang, it means something much different....
Hilarious statement depending upon how you interpret it.

James