Indicators Or Price

Hi The Degrees,
Well, I hope I've attached everything you require! I've not included a 60 minute chart of my chosen stock (GOOG), as I can't easily get hold of it. However, I'll ask some kind soul over on the U.S. forums to post one. I've split the daily 3 year charts into 3 as that's the only way I could think of doing it to enable you/anyone to see the OHLC detail. Hope that's O.K.

The Degrees said:

I arrived at my current position through constant and unflagging hard work, infrequent moments of unexpected but blissful inspiration and most importantly, through ongoing and massive doses of support and mentoring from others.

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Blimey - after all that I sure hope you're profitable.
:cheesy:

The Degrees said:

Sector – interesting comment. Why do you find it easier to find a sector for a UK instrument? What do you think the difference is between an instrument in the US and in the UK?

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Sectors for the U.K. are very straightforward - especially with ShareScope. It's easy to create portfolios that contain just about any info' on an instrument that one might require - including which sector a stock is in and its index. Very clear cut. Sadly, SS doesn't offer the same info' for the U.S. market. By contrast, I find the U.S. is very confusing. For a kick off - the terminology is very different. In the U.S. the word 'sector' appears to mean one of 10 generic groups, each of which are sub divided into 'industries' which are sub divided again and, in some cases, for a third time. So, if one was looking at a 'Defense' stock, this is a sub division of 'Aerospace & Defense' which, in turn, is a sub division of 'Industrial Goods & Services' which fall under the main sector heading of 'Industrials'! How confusing is that!
http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/in...default.asp?bcind_ind=bc_all&bcind_period=5yr
Another site might not list all these industries - or it would list them differently. Finding a sector or industry chart is equally confusing. I expect it's just me that struggles with this, no one else ever mentions it!
Anyway, good luck with this little lot - I look forward to your comments.

Tim.

OK Timsk, I'll get to work, out of trading hours of course.

The Degrees said:

OK Timsk, I'll get to work, out of trading hours of course.

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Hi The degrees,
All in good time and, as you say, out of trading hours of course! I've edited my post from last night, adding the outstanding 60 minute chart of GOOG, courtesy of my friend and awesome trader Mr. Charts who, sadly, rarely posts much these days on T2W.

If this exercise is an 'audience participation' gig, I'm happy to engage as far as I'm able. However, judging by the charts that you've requested, presumably you take account of the macro economic climate (from a T.A. perspective) which, I confess, is something I know less than nothing about!

Tim.

What is the definition of price action? Is it trading a 5 or 10 min bar...waiting for a bar to draw to confirm you move some use volume to...However, you are slow on the move, because you waited for a bar to draw...The trader who uses TA sush as stochastic or RSI on a 1 or 2 min chart will match you or even be beat you on entry....But both are slow on the move. Because you had to wait for the bar or indictors to confirm you entry....

Do you know the definition of price action do you.?..Is it one of the two above or something else?

Answers on a post card.....

laptop1 said:

What is the definition of price action? Is it trading a 5 or 10 min bar...waiting for a bar to draw to confirm you move some use volume to...However, you are slow on the move, because you waited for a bar to draw...The trader who uses TA sush as stochastic or RSI on a 1 or 2 min chart will match you or even be beat you on entry....But both are slow on the move. Because you had to wait for the bar or indictors to confirm you entry....

Do you know the definition of price action do you.?..Is it one of the two above or something else?

Answers on a post card.....

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Hi, LT.

What is the definition of price action?

How price moves.....?

Seems like a no-brainer, what are you trying to say?

Thanks.

laptop1 said:

What is the definition of price action? Is it trading a 5 or 10 min bar...waiting for a bar to draw to confirm you move some use volume to...However, you are slow on the move, because you waited for a bar to draw...The trader who uses TA sush as stochastic or RSI on a 1 or 2 min chart will match you or even be beat you on entry....But both are slow on the move. Because you had to wait for the bar or indictors to confirm you entry....

Do you know the definition of price action do you.?..Is it one of the two above or something else?

Answers on a post card.....

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The trader who enters off a 1m or 2m chart will beat you to the entry regardless of whether he plots a stochastic or the RSI (etc) or not. By focusing on the bar, you are in effect making it into an indicator and removing yourself from the price action per se.

Trading according to where price is going to be n minutes from now is not particularly logical. On the other hand, if one enters when price breaks through some level or makes a new high or whatever, then whether it does so an hour from now, or five minutes, or ten seconds is irrelevant: one enters when price says so.

Db

dbphoenix said:

The trader who enters off a 1m or 2m chart will beat you to the entry regardless of whether he plots a stochastic or the RSI (etc) or not. By focusing on the bar, you are in effect making it into an indicator and removing yourself from the price action per se.

Trading according to where price is going to be n minutes from now is not particularly logical. On the other hand, if one enters when price breaks through some level or makes a new high or whatever, then whether it does so an hour from now, or five minutes, or ten seconds is irrelevant: one enters when price says so.

Db

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dbphoenix said:

The trader who enters off a 1m or 2m chart will beat you to the entry regardless of whether he plots a stochastic or the RSI (etc) or not. By focusing on the bar, you are in effect making it into an indicator and removing yourself from the price action per se.

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First part of you answer is correct and the clue is there . But you still slow on entry.

dbphoenix said:

Trading according to where price is going to be n minutes from now is not particularly logical. On the other hand, if one enters when price breaks through some level or makes a new high or whatever, then whether it does so an hour from now, or five minutes, or ten seconds is irrelevant: one enters when price says so.
Db

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Some points to start with, but there is more again, you are missing something, its still a form of public trading. Lets go back to a trader who trades a 5 min bar. he says he only trades on price. However he has to wait for the bar to draw...."So he's late on entry". The same with breaking of new highs.

The answer is there for all to see on every chart.

laptop1 said:

First part of you answer is correct and the clue is there . But you still slow on entry.





Some points to start with, but there is more again, you are missing something, its still a form of public trading. Lets go back to a trader who trades a 5 min bar. he says he only trades on price. However he has to wait for the bar to draw...."So he's late on entry". The same with breaking of new highs.

The answer is there for all to see on every chart.

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All of which I said, but you seem to have missed my point. Just because one says he is "trading on price" doesn't mean he is. In a larger sense, one is also "trading on price" when he uses indicators.

But you appear to be providing a quiz rather than asking questions. If that's the case, as you were.

Db

dbphoenix said:

All of which I said, but you seem to have missed my point. Just because one says he is "trading on price" doesn't mean he is. In a larger sense, one is also "trading on price" when he uses indicators.

But you appear to be providing a quiz rather than asking questions. If that's the case, as you were.

Db

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I get you point. but both are slow on entry. Its not a quiz. Lets see what other's come back with, what's their description on price action.

Trading price action means you are first on the move, that's the point of trading price action, no lag right?....or is there more to it?

laptop1 said:

I get you point. but both are slow on entry. Its not a quiz. Lets see what other's come back with, what's their description on price action.

Trading price action means you are first on the move, that's the point of trading price action, no lag right?....or is there more to it?

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Insider info?

laptop1 said:

I get you point. but both are slow on entry. Its not a quiz. Lets see what other's come back with, what's their description on price action.

Trading price action means you are first on the move, that's the point of trading price action, no lag right?....or is there more to it?

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There's always a lag, if you're waiting . . .

dbphoenix said:

There's always a lag, if you're waiting . . .

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What would anyone be waiting for?

You don't want to get in the same place as everyone and they dog gets in...So you can do away with lag ...I will tell, but not yet, see if anyone else knows.

Paul71 said:

What would anyone be waiting for?

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To enter.

Paul71 said:

What would anyone be waiting for?

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Waiting for the big purchase, which will be with high volume. Once the ball starts rolling everyone starts to pile in. You are, either, a starter, which means, probably, that you are a fund manager , or someone equally as big, or you will be a follower, who hangs on to the tiger's tail. If you think that the company has potential to rise you may buy in and wait for the tiger to come along. If the latter is the case then you are, probably, a bit of a fundamentalist, as well.

Price movement can't be anything more than what it says. You have to follow the ups and downs and make your own assessment. There are no indicators, not even averages, to help.

Split

Splitlink said:

Waiting for the big purchase, which will be with high volume. Once the ball starts rolling everyone starts to pile in. You are, either, a starter, which means, probably, that you are a fund manager , or someone equally as big, or you will be a follower, who hangs on to the tiger's tail. If you think that the company has potential to rise you may buy in and wait for the tiger to come along. If the latter is the case then you are, probably, a bit of a fundamentalist, as well.

Price movement can't be anything more than what it says. You have to follow the ups and downs and make your own assessment. There are no indicators, not even averages, to help.

Split

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This is true, split. But there is a massive flaw in the arguement....

Why would anyone go first?

Paul71 said:

This is true, split. But there is a massive flaw in the arguement....

Why would anyone go first?

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There will, always, be someone who will be first. Big money will, always, buy cheaply and wait. Maybe a company wants to take over a competitor. There are any number of reasons. I don't think that TA comes into this, at all, in the beginning. It's based on the belief that the company concerned is cheap, which is fundamental analysis.

Chartists say that they spot the turning points before the fundamentalists. That may be true for the small players and traders but, before the chartists see the signal ,the institutions have been picking up stock and making it scarcer. When there becomes a scarcity the price goes up. Chartists see the price rising and they buy more. The whole thing feeds on itself. Price activity becomes apparent but the institutions try to buy blocks small enough not to move the price until the last moment. They do that when selling, too.

Indicator followers are at the back of the buying chain. They want to be as sure as possible and there is a price to be paid for that.

Split

Paul71 said:

Indicators or price?

Whatever!

Just buy any dip, it's a gold mine at the mo!

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Is a dip not just the same as an indicator in its own way though Paul? Support and resistance, trendlines, dips, tops, highs, lows... all there to 'theoretically' indicate Y should happen after X like the crossing of 2 MA's.

wasp said:

Is a dip not just the same as an indicator in its own way though Paul? Support and resistance, trendlines, dips, tops, highs, lows... all there to 'theoretically' indicate Y should happen after X like the crossing of 2 MA's.

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Right, but these are all done mainly by eye. A trendline, for instance, is formed by what the chartist's assessment of the chart is. Indicators have to be formed by deciding how many days there are in the cycle. Not only that, but followers get to like 21 days, 9 days, 40 days, or whatever, and use the same ones for all indicator based decisions, just because they have found that it worked previously.

There is no reason to believe, though, that that is going to happen.

If they don't do that and change all the time I feel that they are making an unnecesary amount of work for themselves. mainly because of the fact that they cannot be sure of the correct cycle to use.

Some posters accused the "no indicator" people as being some kind of snobs. recently. I would say that it is more a form of realism. We make the same mistakes as the rest, but we don't waste so much time in making them.

Split