FuturesBetting? Holy Moly !!

zigglewigler

zigglewigler

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I've been ignoring t2w for a while, so maybe this has been discussed(search reveals nowt), so at the risk of annoying the regular smart arses here, have you seen this fantastic sounding new product?

http://www.futuresbetting.com/home.php

This is a Gibraltar based 'new improved' SB but anchored to the Futures market via IB. You trade the market price plus fixed cost in and out. The firm takes your SB order and places a Futures trade with IB (matched). But it is absolutely tight to the market, no front running prices and trading against clients. Sounds good.

Tax free status too.

Anyone using this firm?

I'm considering leaving IB for this. But this is a gut reaction as I was told about this new firm 5 minutes ago! :eek:
 
Met the guys who run it at a recent show - seem nice enough. I haven't made the switch to them yet myself, although was considering it.

Can't say much more about it as I don't know much more about it.
 
From what I've seen this should be the end of other SBs. None compare to this business model.

But this company has only been operating since March, and can't advertise in this country! Perhaps Gordon fears the power of Gibraltar, ie not within his grubby reach.

So who here is a client?
 
I am a client - but via EDITED. They are FSA regulated and based in the UK so I felt it was easier to deal with them. Took me 4 days to get the account open. The platform is really quick and efficient, and the support I got from the boys at Twowayfutures was neat (I went into their office to look at it and they gave me a demo login). Overall 10/10. Best I have ever seen in 4 years.
 
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I've been using futuresbetting.com since June and have been trading bund, euribor and dax futures on it (only small size though).

Trade execution is extremely quick and their support guys pick up the phone or answer e-mails straight away.

The best bit about it by far though is the live sqwawk box , you won't subcribe to a news feed ever again !!
 
Yes, the squawk looks useful. It would nice to get some idea of market pace, and if pit traders are playing craps.

Twoways recommended this to me, it's not the same company, but they seem to be promoting it.

Clients with IB via 2ways have switched to futuresbet, but how do they compare cost wise? Clearly the platform looks better and support should be easier.
 
Nice to see something more innovative on the SB trading that gives tighter margins etc.
rgds
zarif
 
Just had a look at their E-Mini SP500 costs.

0-2000 lots(contracts rt); $6 per lot, spread +/- 0.12.

This closely matches IB rt costs.

2001-4000 lots;$4 per lot, spread +/- 0.08.

It gets cheaper the more you do.
 
Hi all,

This is my first post on Trade2Win, though I have been watching for some time.

I got an advert email from ADVFN the other day for Twowayfutures and gave them a call. One of the chaps there took me through the whole process and how it all works. I have my account open now and started trading today. Just gonna feel my way in for a couple of days but it really is what it says on the tin, exactly the same prices as you will get from eSignal (I have compared) and all tax free. Amazing.

I am going to see them next week just to meet them, but so far all looks great. Will report again in a few days I guess.


JMatt
 
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No it is tax free in Gibraltar, it may not be tax free within the UK as it is not regulated and set up as a Spreadbet company in the UK.

I would strongly advise caution.

JonnyT
 
Yes, it looks like the same old problem, if it's your main source of income, maybe it's liable.

This is not a firm for newbies, the application process requires prev experience. In addition, your account must be £5k minimum. A good thing all in all, to dissuade chancers with credit cards. Sounds like it was a condition set by the Gibraltar regulator.

Their location perhaps plays a part in their lower costs. All clients monies are held in London bank.

What I'm not understanding yet, is why people aren't going dizzy over this yet! This should have all full-time traders deserting the Sbs in droves.
 
I’m a client and they’re great. Really cheap spreads and super fast because they hedge straight into the futures markets. Whether it’s tax free or not depends where you are resident and not where the SB is. Spoke to them today and they’ve got something like 100 odd financial futures clients and are starting spread bets on equities November time. Happy days!
 
Futuresbetting.com is 100% tax free for UK residents because it is a spreadbetting company and client funds are held in London (Barclays I think).

From what I can gather , the company had to go through a few years of beaucracy in Gibraltar before they were issued with the spreadbetting licence. I would imagine that the reason they can offer tight spreads is because they have less tax to pay on their own profits and that is why they are Gibraltar based.

It's a very clever set up and will probably cause a massive headache to the current spreadbetting companies and futures arcades that currently exist (ceratainly the one's that I looked at first ).
 
I hate to be the bearer of potentially bad news. How YOU are taxed on your betting will be a function of the income derived from it and whether those bets are deemed professional - whether thats horses, cricket runs or trading (betting) financial markets.

Traders who do not declare that do so at their own risk!!!!

Worse, traders who think using spread betting as a cover for trading really are asking for trouble.

If this is wrong i would love to hear from someone who has openly declared such earnings (of a reasonably large size) to the inland revenue, to be then told it is not taxable - if that is the case then we are all OFF TO THE RACES

- I hope someone has got that precedent set. Please please please let us know if you have
 
Yes, we've had this discussion on 2tw before. The Inland Rev haven't made a test case, the official line being if gambling earnings are the major source of your income you are deemed a professional gambler and are liable for tax, but they haven't the balls to go to court, for fear of scaring the bookies back to Gibraltar. I suspect individuals have been intimidated into paying without contesting.(but please lets not go there again!)

Of course there is no need to be too open about how much money you make within the realms of gambling.

Trading is trading, if you use SBs successfully, it's no cover. Trouble is you can't generally on an intraday basis, so have to go direct to market with say e-minis, hence this thread.

But this is going off message. This thread isn't so much about whether you should be paying tax on your SB earnings, but more about a new product based on a business model that the old guard of SB firms can't hope to match.
 
UK spreadbetting is treated as not subject to tax on net winnings. Why should SB services from Gibraltar for the UK resident be taxed if he makes a net profit? I think all thoughts need to be concentrated here so any further comment must be helpful.

Am I right to say that correctly spreadbetting is 'tax paid' so that no tax arises in the hands of the spreadbetter who happens to be making money?
 
I agree Z, as far as spread betting goes this is as tight as you can go -BUT.......

But the only reason for The Professional Trader to Spread Bet instead of trading futures direct is....... Tax. Otherwise you are always going to be better off directly trading the Futures

I also agree with your last point that we are getting off the point. I will start a seperate thread on Tax and SB.

Thanks for your reply
 
Hi S,
thats not correct. You are liable to declare your worldwide earnings if Uk resident.

You are then subject to Uk taxatiion - if that is exempt then so be it - but you will not get that (think about it from the inland revenue point of view)

Now, many people dont declare their overseas earnings, assuming they dont need to, or that it may be exempt some how (this is not restricted to trading or betting, could be property trransactions etc etc) - again that tax man aint silly - if you decide not to declare you run the risk, and it is a real risk, of being prosecuted for tax evasion.

You need to bear that in mind with anything you do offshore or otherwise.

Bundbaby
 
bundbaby
Thanks for taking the Tax issue elsewhere, it's one of those endless topics that never finds a definitive answer.

I am very happy to trade e-mini sp500s with IB.

However, if FutsBet offers a product that is as good as the futures contract, with the added benefits(leaving the tax issue aside), particularly, a better platform, better back office and support etc, with no worse cost per contract(2way say I can start on a higher tier so it might be cheaper still), then this is potentially the best of both worlds.

Nobody has yet demonstrated that the FutsBet product performs any less well that direct to market e-minis.

This is what's important, it is just as good as direct to market! This is why I can't understand the lack of moments of epiphany (or at least a " '**** me sideways!") around here! :cheesy:
 
bundbaby said:
Hi S,
thats not correct. You are liable to declare your worldwide earnings if Uk resident.

You are then subject to Uk taxatiion - if that is exempt then so be it - but you will not get that (think about it from the inland revenue point of view)

Now, many people dont declare their overseas earnings, assuming they dont need to, or that it may be exempt some how (this is not restricted to trading or betting, could be property trransactions etc etc) - again that tax man aint silly - if you decide not to declare you run the risk, and it is a real risk, of being prosecuted for tax evasion.

You need to bear that in mind with anything you do offshore or otherwise.

Bundbaby
Click to expand...

FuturesBetting.com say in their e-mail, "And of course under current UK legislation, spreadbetting profits are Tax Free!"
 
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