Automated trading versus discretionary trading

My experience to date suggests automated works well on currencies, due to the nature of the 24 continuous market without disruption and manipulation.The indices are in a highly manipulated market with disruptions of intraday closes/wall street opening hours , and restrictions on falls in the indices.

What types of automated strategies would work with indices?

My profitability comes from automation and automated systems.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...fitable-automated-trading-12.html#post1084340

Automated trading has loads of advantages whereas discretionary trading has loads of disadvantages.

Advantages
1)No need to monitor markets and watch screen, trades are placed automatically
2)No greed , fear and discipline problems, software doesn't suffer from these problems
3)No money management or positive expectancy shortcomings, MM and PE are precoded in system.
4)No need to look for trade parameters i.e entries, exits ,stops,and trade management i.e tsl , b/e etc is done automatically by software.
5)Can manage multiple strategies,set ups and instruments simultaneously.Sometimes as many as 20 set ups are traded simultaneously , using different systems.
6)Computer does not need to go for no 1 or 2 or breakfast lunch and dinner, and often missing great trading decisions
7)Computer is not distracted by wife, children, phone calls,postman ,neighbours etc
8)operates 24 hours a day without a trade time nap
9)Doesn't require alcoholic beverages during trade time
10) Strategies can be backtested and forward tested without committing real money, only if strategies are profitable is real money employed.
11)highly complex method can be precoded.


Disadvantages

1)Discretionary traders can see a better view of set ups whereas automated trading is limited view based on rules coded .This applies to exits,entries and trade management.

http://www.trade2win.com/boards/gen...ing-easy-making-money-hard-5.html#post1086248

"market without disruption and manipulation" man your dumb.

Gens, it's "you're" not 'your'

wot are you, fick or summit ?

N Rothschild said:

"market without disruption and manipulation" man your dumb.

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Not that dumb.

Haven't you ever noticed when really bad news comes out , indices don't go lower,they rally.Christmas time window dressing by fund managers, only benefit is to earn higher bonuses by managers , at a time when markets should be heading lower.

The biggest manipulation was $700bn tarp fund, without it the indices would have crashed to S and P at 300.Oh and all those limit barriers to stop the market falling, but no limit barriers to stop the markets from rising.

Dax wants to go higher at 12 pm . but it can't and waits for Wall street to open.If the currency markets want to go higher , it will just do it without waiting for wall street to open.

You have managers controlling what price the market should be.Try doing that on a trillion dollar a day market, even Goldman would go bust trying to manipulate it.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-schweitzer/the-big-lie-exposed-wall_b_154225.html

Loads of false breakouts on the Durs in a highly non manipulatable market?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE0-vsAWlTY&feature=related

quoting jim cramer? you're dumber than i first thought..

Knowing what i know about trading really well. I really cannot see how one could develop a system that does it all for you automatically.

Once you get to the major leagues as a discretionary player, the elite level of trading, the fun is in the fill, & your ability to enter & exit at the right prices for near maximum profits. So why would you want to stop this in order to be some jelly belly flump who sits on the couch watching while their computer do the work.

The art of trading is knowing where to exit & when to enter.

N Rothschild said:

quoting jim cramer? you're dumber than i first thought..

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I Though he was cleverer than you,at least he gives a good argument not just dumb one liners from a little man trying to express himself.

911=falseflagblackop said:

Knowing what i know about trading really well. I really cannot see how one could develop a system that does it all for you automatically.

Once you get to the major leagues as a discretionary player, the elite level of trading, the fun is in the fill, & your ability to enter & exit at the right prices for near maximum profits. So why would you want to stop this in order to be some jelly belly flump who sits on the couch watching while their computer do the work.

The art of trading is knowing where to exit & when to enter.

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Firstly I have developed a system that does everything automatically .Its is a mechanical system which will not exit or enter at optimum values.It works on probabilities and a 50/50 profit/loss hit rate , making money from positive expectancy.

I agree entirely with your post , and add that there are far greater returns to be made from manual trading.This is one of the disadvantages of automation along with drawdowns.Automated trading has its limits on return on capital .whereas manual trading returns can be 10 times greater.

Its not just being a lazy person the couch, its an alternative form of trading available for traders with other commitments.It can be done alongside a trader's manual trades on a separate account.

O D T

oildaytrader said:

Not that dumb.

Haven't you ever noticed when really bad news comes out , indices don't go lower,they rally.

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Ahhh so thats how to do it! Thank you ODT!!!

megamuel said:

Ahhh so thats how to do it! Thank you ODT!!!

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I don't trade in the lunatic asylum call the stock market.:innocent:

oildaytrader said:

My experience to date suggests automated works well on currencies, due to the nature of the 24 continuous market without disruption and manipulation.

I don't trade in the lunatic asylum call the stock market.

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Apparently you don't trade forex either.

Peter

wackypete2 said:

Apparently you don't trade forex either.

Peter

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Agreed.I just code the rules for the computers .The computer automatically does it for me , it picks the trades and communicates with the broker.

wackypete2 said:

Apparently you don't trade forex either.

Peter

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Here are my manual/dicretionary trades for today .over 150 pips /cents/points in total .
Very low drawdown 150 pips/dollars using $2,000, equivalent to around 2,000 % a year.
It can be done every day.

Show me the positive expectation. I admire your fortitude in seeking a solution, but I doubt you are a successful trader. In fact, I'd be shocked. Please prove me wrong and post ALL your results on mt4stats.com. I think EAs are a fun hobby and potentially profitable, but your profit curve and profit factor you displayed on that graph were very poor and there's no way you will retire using your current systems in the fashion you are employing them. Have fun and learn, but stop acting like you're "THE MAN" around here.

groovemachine said:

Show me the positive expectation. I admire your fortitude in seeking a solution, but I doubt you are a successful trader. In fact, I'd be shocked. Please prove me wrong and post ALL your results on mt4stats.com. I think EAs are a fun hobby and potentially profitable, but your profit curve and profit factor you displayed on that graph were very poor and there's no way you will retire using your current systems in the fashion you are employing them. Have fun and learn, but stop acting like you're "THE MAN" around here.

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2 posts and already a trading mentor/guru giving all the advice , like a professional who knows it all.

Eas are a hobby to you.Computers work on garbage in garbage out , if your EAS are fun , the input must be fun so you get a load of fun, and you can all play games.

If serious intellectual property is input in computer codes, the output will be serious professional stuff.If Bill gates put xxit in in windows , you will will get xxit coming out of your windows , more like windows media centre.

What profit curve and graph?

I think computer can't make profitable trades. It can just sort out securities and then you have to make a decision by yourself. I do it this way.
See this thread - http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tec...ading-opportunities-moment-3.html#post1100722

Client said:

I think computer can't make profitable trades. It can just sort out securities and then you have to make a decision by yourself. I do it this way.
See this thread - http://www.trade2win.com/boards/tec...ading-opportunities-moment-3.html#post1100722

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Computer can be programmed to buy or sell ,if following conditions are met.

Wave 1 is established,
M/A is in place, the price is above MA (34);
wave 2 is in place

Enter buy ,if uptrend long

Exit if following conitions are met

Trend exhausting(define), Sell below 130

O D T

stop pretending you are actually a trader ODT

oildaytrader said:

Computer can be programmed to buy or sell ,if following conditions are met.

Wave 1 is established,
M/A is in place, the price is above MA (34);
wave 2 is in place

Enter buy ,if uptrend long

Exit if following conitions are met

Trend exhausting(define), Sell below 130

O D T

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the problem is that there are too many variants and individual cases. Machine just can't take them all into consideration... Wave count hasn't been programmed properly at the moment and there are objective reasons for that.