MAs ZigZags and Repaints - The Debate

TheBramble · Apr 29, 2008

Whatever timeframe you're using, the MA (whatever flavour MA) is valid only up to the most recently closed bar.

There are some folk that work quite happily with signals repainting themselves in and out way into the past. Well, they’re happy for a while – until the money runs out…

There’s even one damned fool on these boards that uses the ZigZag indicator – Haar Haar Haar…what a loser!

Tell you what X75, that is worth you taking a look at if you haven’t already. Put a ZigZag on your chart and watch in wonder, and then wonder, if you’re perhaps seeing things. You’ve been short for a couple of days on the down sloping Zag and you pull up your chart the next morning and guess what, it’s showing an up slope that’s been in effect for weeks. I’m surprised nobody has repackaged it as a commercial system in its own right. LOL!

Splitlink · Apr 29, 2008

TheBramble said:
Whatever timeframe you're using, the MA (whatever flavour MA) is valid only up to the most recently closed bar.

There are some folk that work quite happily with signals repainting themselves in and out way into the past. Well, they’re happy for a while – until the money runs out…

There’s even one damned fool on these boards that uses the ZigZag indicator – Haar Haar Haar…what a loser!

Tell you what X75, that is worth you taking a look at if you haven’t already. Put a ZigZag on your chart and watch in wonder, and then wonder, if you’re perhaps seeing things. You’ve been short for a couple of days on the down sloping Zag and you pull up your chart the next morning and guess what, it’s showing an up slope that’s been in effect for weeks. I’m surprised nobody has repackaged it as a commercial system in its own right. LOL!

Yes, I have wondered about that myself.

You must be careful of the LRC, as well. It is like the Bollingers. They are not, necessarily reversals----the trend could be changing.

One signal, by itself, is a very dangerous tool to fall in love with.

mp6140 · Apr 29, 2008

MP -- ah, yet ANOTHER ex - spurt !

TheBramble said:
Whatever timeframe you're using, the MA (whatever flavour MA) is valid only up to the most recently closed bar.

There are some folk that work quite happily with signals repainting themselves in and out way into the past. Well, they’re happy for a while – until the money runs out…

There’s even one damned fool on these boards that uses the ZigZag indicator – Haar Haar Haar…what a loser!

Tell you what X75, that is worth you taking a look at if you haven’t already. Put a ZigZag on your chart and watch in wonder, and then wonder, if you’re perhaps seeing things. You’ve been short for a couple of days on the down sloping Zag and you pull up your chart the next morning and guess what, it’s showing an up slope that’s been in effect for weeks. I’m surprised nobody has repackaged it as a commercial system in its own right. LOL!

nobody has repackaged it as a commercial system in its own right. LOL!
=====================================================================
FOR THE NEWBS --- much of this conversation must be treated as "tongue in cheek" as I sit on a short list of those known to "make waves" and disagree with well held thoughts while also questioning the powers that be (although i shall not raise the spectre of denounceation in this post !)

Unknown to some of the lesser gods in the pantheon who freely post their "thoughts" is the long ago, handed down secrets underlying the use of "repaintable indicators" --- its not hard to understand their casual and offhand "dismissal" when you realize they are probably trading while holding the book "how to look and feel like a real trader at home, while taking out the garbage, walking the dog, parking the car and earning a gazillion dollars in the process !"
Having allowed for the abilities of these self syled "guru's", I shall put forth some reality to this subject --- you know, pretty soon these self styled guru's will even be saying you need stop losses on every trade and throwing up such words as "risk/reward", "probabilities" and "pivot points" !

shortly i shall get on with it

mp

TheBramble · Apr 29, 2008

The ZigZag indicator uses 20/20 hindsight to filter out fluctuations.

You choose the minimum value of reversal as either an absolute value or a percentage value and the data upon which you want it to operate. Most normally leave it at the default value of ‘Close’ and whatever the charting supplier’s default for the minimum reversal value is as it doesn’t really make any difference anyway.

It has at times been recommended as a tool for those that imagine Elliott waves exist, so you can probably place it in the same category as Fibonacci extensions (I’ve gone for bronze and blond highlights in mine this season), Wolff Waves, Sloman Ocean Waves and quasi-epicentric Polish Ellipse transformed sine waves. Queue here with the other UFO abductees…

If you really want to check this one out, get hold of “Filtered Waves – Basic Theory” by Arthur A. Merrill. An entire book on the ZigZag. Although watch out for that last chapter - it may have changed.

I’d be genuinely delighted for any serious traders (i.e. those that actually trade successfully and have been doing so consistently for more than a few years) who effectively use ZigZag to explain how they use it as I’d love to be able to have it as a buddy.

As an aside, and in reference to the post above by another wannabee trader (no offence – we all got to start somewhere), the use of ZigZag does mean you don’t have to use any stops. No point. Risk/Reward is something else you don’t have to worry about and Pivot Points are what weren’t there yesterday, but today, they’ve been there for days already…(yes, they’re Jewish Pivot Points).

Mods, don’t want to derail x75’s thread so if you feel the need, please move this to another section – perhaps Jokes & Humour would be appropriate.

mp6140 · Apr 29, 2008

TheBramble said:
The ZigZag indicator uses 20/20 hindsight to filter out fluctuations.

You choose the minimum value of reversal as either an absolute value or a percentage value and the data upon which you want it to operate. Most normally leave it at the default value of ‘Close’ and whatever the charting supplier’s default for the minimum reversal value is as it doesn’t really make any difference anyway.

BITE ME BRAMBLE !!!
although i have two sets -- the default and a half value default !

It has at times been recommended as a tool for those that imagine Elliott waves exist, so you can probably place it in the same category as Fibonacci extensions (I’ve gone for bronze and blond highlights in mine this season), Wolff Waves, Sloman Ocean Waves and quasi-epicentric Polish Ellipse transformed sine waves. Queue here with the other UFO abductees…

while youve left out a few, youve covered most of the basic designs so the remainders are only alter-egos or mere shells of the waves you describe, allthough one must never forget one of the more powerful ---- the so called "ocean" which produces tremendous volitility at the proper times of the year !

If you really want to check this one out, get hold of “Filtered Waves – Basic Theory” by Arthur A. Merrill. An entire book on the ZigZag. Although watch out for that last chapter - it may have changed.

fufffffftttt --- ROFLMAO as i spit my wine cooler across the room !

I’d be genuinely delighted for any serious traders (i.e. those that actually trade successfully and have been doing so consistently for more than a few years) who effectively use ZigZag to explain how they use it as I’d love to be able to have it as a buddy.

if one takes a quick look at UJ this moment, please to note that your future buddy is pointing its way towards wealth and fame ! (and one heck of a run that should be good for another two hours)

As an aside, and in reference to the post above by another wannabee trader (no offence – we all got to start somewhere), the use of ZigZag does mean you don’t have to use any stops. No point. Risk/Reward is something else you don’t have to worry about and Pivot Points are what weren’t there yesterday, but today, they’ve been there for days already…(yes, they’re Jewish Pivot Points).

Mods, don’t want to derail x75’s thread so if you feel the need, please move this to another section – perhaps Jokes & Humour would be appropriate.

mp

TheBramble · Apr 29, 2008

mp6140 said:
if one takes a quick look at UJ this moment...

OK.

What TF? What ZZ settings?

I've just put it on default settings and got it DOWN in the Monthly, Weekly, UP in the daily, DOWN in the 4 hourly, DOWN in the hourly, UP in the 15 min and 5 min.

All of the above at 21:15 GMT.

TheBramble · Apr 29, 2008

Good for another 2 hours? Uh? LOL! We looking at the same charts......?

mp6140 · Apr 29, 2008

TheBramble said:
OK.

What TF? What ZZ settings?

I've just put it on default settings and got it DOWN in the Monthly, Weekly, UP in the daily, DOWN in the 4 hourly, DOWN in the hourly, UP in the 15 min and 5 min.

All of the above at 21:15 GMT.

take a look at the H1. you should have an unfinished zz at 104.10 just above the 50 fib

if you have the SHI channel, read the high at 21 although i believe price goes sideways for a bit and with a descending LRC we should see 104.17 area for the high by the time it gets there !

now, looking at the preceeding downtrending purple line which is the prior zz, you can take a very good fib off the top and bottom of that "wave" and find your readings to be spot on !

if youre really curious, above the yellow line sits some s+r "dots" and the aqua line above them is the bols, suggesting a highly probable run to that point, will now have to confirm using the H4 and daily.

havent looked at the other timeframes, but like anything else, unless theyre all in sync, at which time one bets the farm, the horse, the pigs and chickens, the children and sends the wife out to earn more money, youre gonna have them moving every which way depending on the timeframe.

an EA that would trade when ALL line up would be worth its weight in gold, dontcha think ??
mp

fibonelli · Apr 29, 2008

these beards are more reliable than this f&^(&%! useless indicator

those of a certain age will remember this band

mp6140 · Apr 29, 2008

TheBramble said:
Good for another 2 hours? Uh? LOL! We looking at the same charts......?

==========================

that was said two hours before the rollover, and it continued up to that point --- now waiting for it to decide to make its new run, as some take profit and it waits to clear the pennant formation its ikn on the 5 min chart

TheBramble · Apr 29, 2008

mp6140 said:
take a look at the H1. you should have an unfinished zz at 104.10 just above the 50 fib

I must be using a different ZZ to you. On the 1H I've got a final segment sloping down to the 103.20 low at 14:00 GMT and nothing painting from there on.

mp6140 said:
if you have the SHI channel, read the high at 21 although i believe price goes sideways for a bit and with a descending LRC we should see 104.17 area for the high by the time it gets there !

Yep, agreed, but that's nothing to do with the ZZ...

mp6140 · Apr 29, 2008

fibonelli said:
these beards are more reliable than this f&^(&%! useless indicator

those of a certain age will remember this band

===============================================

remember them well, but i cant find the indicator "f&^(&%!" that you refer to !

MP

mp6140 · Apr 29, 2008

TheBramble said:
I must be using a different ZZ to you. On the 1H I've got a final segment sloping down to the 103.20 low at 14:00 GMT and nothing painting from there on.

Yep, agreed, but that's nothing to do with the ZZ...

========================================================
its the connection between where the zz is heading and the top LRC, although i see a lot more down the road

everything is stock except the swing zz which i have set to (2), true, false
and zig zag first, which is a half value zz at 6, 2, 2

mp6140 · Apr 30, 2008

mp6140 said:
========================================================
its the connection between where the zz is heading and the top LRC, although i see a lot more down the road

everything is stock except the swing zz which i have set to (2), true, false
and zig zag first, which is a half value zz at 6, 2, 2

===========================================================

UJ still going, kinda like the energizer bunny --- been a very good bunny today what with down and then up and later prob down again

mp

TheBramble · Apr 30, 2008

mp6140 said:
everything is stock except the swing zz which i have set to (2), true, false
and zig zag first, which is a half value zz at 6, 2, 2

Very generous of you to share (almost all) the contents of your treasure chest, but some fools, not understanding your warped sense of humour and grand designs on financial market domination, will download these inds and plaster them all over their screens, only to find they create an indelible, undeletable, immovable pixelated mosaic which completely obliterates the price action thus blinding them to your covert market machinations...

Plus, all of these are quite useless of course without the key indicator, the McGS.mq4.

x75 - you may think this is nothing to do with MA-X, but trust me, by the time you've been through this loop a few times, you'll realise everything is a variation of an MA-X.

westernforce · Apr 30, 2008

I can't believe you guys are mocking the zigzag indicator. It's poetry in motion. It's the all knowing, all encompassing, all in one indicator, designed by some fiendishly drunk brokers.

fifty2aces · Apr 30, 2008

Surely zigzag is just a way of identifying higher highs + higher lows (or lower lows and lower highs), making it easier to eyeball the current trend and work out the risk:reward of entering on a pullback? Never used it, so I may be misunderstanding exactly what it does.

TheBramble · Apr 30, 2008

It does pretty much as you say 52A and I'm partially won over to it as a graphical aid for identifying the high and low points for Fib retracements/extensions calculations, but you can probably almost as easily eyeball that without ZZ.

My main concern with it is the dynamic nature of the last leg, which can me mercifully non-existent in some charting packages.

Having you most recent down trend turn into a long-establish up trend overnight can be a little disconcerting to those basing forward trading decisions upon it.

nahman · Jun 16, 2008

Try zig zag set at 0.05, use confirmation of heikin-ashi with no shadows opposite to new trend and targets of 5 pips, stop loss just above or below the last swing.
It's conservative, but try it on a demo account first.

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